5 grand? What am I missing?

[Laszlo]

Check this out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Goerz-Berlin-75mm-Hypergon-Dopp-Anastigmat-Pre-Seri_W0QQitemZ280057723311QQihZ018QQcategoryZ30076QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[cyrus]

Pfffttt!
5 measley grand? Heck its only money...

Is the dollar that weak?

[Jim Galli]

Legendary lens. it covered 140 degrees. A 75mm probably covers 10X12. Nothing else on earth save a pinhole can do that. Sadly it resolves about like a pinhole which is quite cheaper. Originally it had a little fan that spun up in front of the element and acted as a centre filter.

[Arne Croell]

Also, the seller is "photo-arsenal-germany", fomer ebay handle was "arsenall". His starting prices are usually 2-3 times higher than the final price of the same lens in another auction. I assume he caters mostly to rich collectors.

[neil poulsen]

Maybe a museum can afford it.

[Ole Tjugen]

Legendary lens. it covered 140 degrees. A 75mm probably covers 10X12. Nothing else on earth save a pinhole can do that. Sadly it resolves about like a pinhole which is quite cheaper. Originally it had a little fan that spun up in front of the element and acted as a centre filter.

Not this one...

The Hypergon was sold in two mount versions, with and without the fan. The ones without the fan were a bit cheaper and were rated to 110 degrees while they covered 135 degrees with the fan. As a rough estimate, the image circle is 3x focal length without and 5x with the fan. So this 75mm would cover roughly 225mm, or just 5x7". With a fan it should be just usable on 10x12" at 375mm image circle.

This particular sample puzzles me a little, since it's sold as a "pre-series" yet the focal length is given in mm, not cm as was common at that time (I'm referring to a 1910 photography book, and the Hypergon was a production item then. With cm focal lengths).

Come to that, nearly everything this seller lists puzzles me. Even though I must confess to having bought a (cheap!) lens or two from him myself...

[Arne Croell]

This particular sample puzzles me a little, since it's sold as a "pre-series" yet the focal length is given in mm, not cm as was common at that time (I'm referring to a 1910 photography book, and the Hypergon was a production item then. With cm focal lengths).

Ole, millimeters for focal length where quite common in the German optical industry before 1900 and a few years after. Only after that did they switch to cm's, and of course back to mm's after WWII (with the exception of Voigtländer, who continued with cm for their LF lenses until they stopped production).

[Ole Tjugen]

Thanks, Arne.

My 1910 book lists everything in centimeters, and the picture of the Hypergon in that book is clear enough to see that it's given in centimeters. There's always more to learn, and another exception to every rule...

PS: I had to check, of course. And yes, my Apo-Lanthar is a 15cm f:4.5 :)

[Ongarine]

I used many years ago a 60 mm. with fan to make a 10x12 cm. slide of a ceiling in a church.......it was not so easy and the Ektas flew as water in the fall.
Hypergon could be interesting not at that incredible high price :-) it has problems of focus and the corner are never so sharp when used with the extreme format covered.
It is in my High Prized list of overvalue LF lenses.......

[Arne Croell]

PS: I had to check, of course. And yes, my Apo-Lanthar is a 15cm f:4.5 :)

And it is one of the great unsolved mysteries of LF lens lore, WHY Voigtländer decided to stay with cm's - only for LF lenses, mind you - when everybody else including Zeiss, their mothership from 1956 on, had gone back to mm.

[Dan Fromm]

Folks, about the seller, it seems that he uses eBay's specials -- they periodically offer cut prices for listings -- as cheap advertising. Also that he's open to offers.

[Ernest Purdum]

Amongst other superlatives, a Hypergon with fan probably ranks as the most difficult lens to ue effectively ever made. (I'm not speaking from personal experience, my only Hypergon is a Fuji and it has no fan.)

The only camera I know of that might be able to use the Hypergon's capabilities fairly well is the Folmer & Schwing Skyscraper Special. I suppose Lotus might build one if requested, but the price would probably make 5 Grand look inconsequential. Does anybody else know of another camera to match with a Hypergon?

[Ole Tjugen]

Any old German "Reisekamera" (rear-focusing fixed-front with lensboard rise/fall and shift) - my 24x30cm one can focus a 50mm lens. I've tried a 65mm lens on it, with format reducing inserts in the plate holder, and it works just fine. So it should have no more problems with a 75mm Hypergon on the full format.
The Argentum Architec (http://www.argentumcamera.com/_angol/html_pages/architec.htm) should work too - it's essentially the same. An 8x10" Architec should cost about $1500, so it's a little less than the lens.

[Ongarine]

Any old/modern monorail camera with bag bellow and recessed lens board will works.
I used it on an old Sinar P2 (first serie) mounted directly on the recessed board.
It was tricky to use and the fan was the first problem.
The slide were pretty good even if a little bit dark, but it was a success because the ceiling of the church was very huge and interesting.
Steinheil Periscop and Goerz Hypergon suffer a difficult focusing in real use.

[Ernest Purdum]

Ole, It looks like your 24 X 30cm travel camera should qualify, all right. The Argentum Architec is interesting, I had not seen this one before. Yes, that's lot less than I assume having Lotus build one for you would cost.

Ongarine, I hadn't been thinking of monorails, just because of format size. I should have, though because there was a Size 000 at 60mm which just covered 8" X 10". I've never seen one this small, but some probably do still exist. What size was the one you used? It would be interesting to see your church interior. Your comments about difficulty of use match what I have heard from other users.

[Ongarine]

Ernest,
I used a 60 mm. Hypergon with fan, it was owned by a very old photographer mounted in a type (not original) Sinar recessed lensboard.
The slides were produces more than 25 years ago and I have nothing in my archive because, if I remember well we gave all the slides made to the client for his best choice of exposure for the photolitograph works (scanners and so on).
It was another time!
Maybe the 60 mm. will cover 8x10, I have still this doubt because we tested it on a 13x18 cm. format that it covered very well, but we were doubtful about the corners not for sharpness but for a slightly darkness in the corner.

[Capocheny]

Maybe a museum can afford it.

Neil,

I know "I" won't be buying it! :)

For $5,000, I'd rather have a Schneider 110XL and a Nikkor 150SW. :)

Cheers