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View Full Version : Macro lens on a budget?



Ken Grooms
13-Dec-2006, 05:45
Are there any good 1:1 4x5 macro lenses that are relatively cheap? Be honest. I don't mind paying if I have to. I just don't want to pass up any little gems if they're out there. (I paid $100 for my little format macro - on the suggestion of Bjorn Rorslett - and it's the best lens in that bag!)

Struan Gray
13-Dec-2006, 06:52
150 mm APO-Ronar. Even the multicoated ones in shutter often go for less than the price of the shutter alone. Longer Ronars give you more working space and room for lights, if you have the bellows draw.

Scott Kathe
13-Dec-2006, 07:28
I'm going to go out on a limb here:confused: Right now I am looking at a Tominon f4.5 105mm lens in a Polaroid/Copal shutter that came from a MP4 camera here at the lab where I work. I have never used this lens but I will try it out at some point on with my 4x5. From what I understand they work for macro photography but do not have nearly enough coverage at infinity for 4x5. I think these go for <$50 on eBay so maybe it's worth checking out. I hope someone with experience with this lens will chime in. Just to reiterate, I have no experience with this lens but they are inexpensive. I'm glad this topic was brought becasue there is a red filter on this lens that will work on my 90mm Angulon:)

Scott

Jim Galli
13-Dec-2006, 08:21
The one in your enlarger. Also, yes the 127, 105, and 75mm Tominon's are very nice.

Dan Fromm
13-Dec-2006, 08:28
I'm more-or-less with Jim. But and however, the 75 Tominon won't cover 4x5 at or below 1:1 and don't neglect the 135/4.5 Tominon for the MP-4 system.

For more info on lenses intended to be used at magnifications above 1:1 (not what you asked about, but you're on the dread slippery slope), see http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/microlen.htm . Also has some info on lenses for use below 1:1.

Ernest Purdum
13-Dec-2006, 11:42
At 1:1. a copy lens like the 135 or 105 Tominon is very appropriate and very convenient if you have the Polaroid MP-4 shutter into which these screw directly.

The 75 and shorter Tominons are intended for use at magnification past 1:1, way past in the case of the 35 and 17.

The Tominons are real bargains these days, selling on eBay for a very small fraction of their original price. Even so, I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned the G-Claron. It's more expensive but its versatility might make it worth it to you.

Andy Eads
13-Dec-2006, 15:56
For major magnification, try the 35mm Eurygon by Rodenstock. They can be had in shutters for reasonable prices.

Ken Grooms
13-Dec-2006, 18:39
Thanks, everyone. ALERT: I just got two great books in the mail (thanks, Bruce!)- one by Steve Simmons and one by Jim Stone. Steve says that I can get 1:1 with a "normal lens or a slightly longer-than-normal lens." (p.19) I have a 210mm, so maybe I'll give it a try! :) My only concern would be lens distortion. Should this be an issue? Thanks.

Dan Fromm
14-Dec-2006, 05:29
Ken, 1:1 requires extension = 2f. So going to 1:1 with a 210 will require 420 mm flange-to-film. Will your camera give you that much? Now do you understand why most posts in this thread have suggested lenses no longer than 150 mm?

Distortion? What's that? It typically grows with the distance off-axis. If the lens you use is any good at all it won't be an issue closeup.

David Millard
23-Dec-2006, 17:05
Greetings Ken -

I don't know what your budget is, but B&H PhotoVideo currently has 120mm AM-ED Nikkors, optimized at 1:1, for just $299, a fraction of their original price.

About 2 years ago I did a test (using Fuji 64T in a 6X9cm rollfilm back) of one of these lenses against a 120mm f/5.6 Apo-Macro Sironar and a 120mm f/5.6 Zeiss S-Planar copy lens in shutter, photographing a decorated tea towel at .5X, 1X, and 2X, with my camera mounted on a rigid copystand. The resulting images were indistinguishably sharp across the frame at f/11. The Macro Sironar and the S-Planar had a warmer color balance than the Nikkor, but the difference was subtle.

I kept the Apo-Sironar, and sold the others. I preferred it to the Nikkor because of its color rendition and slightly shorter length (allowing it to fit in my closed 23 Technika); I liked it better than the S-Planar because of its smaller size, greater coverage, and ability to use filters. I also tested, and sold, a bitingly sharp 150mm Apo-Ronar several years ago, because the images were too blue for my tastes compared to the results obtained from my other lenses. Ignoring my subjective color preferences , I think the AM-ED Nikkor is a great lens at the price at which its being offered. Good luck in your quest!

Mark Sawyer
23-Dec-2006, 17:35
The 127mm Rodenstock Ysaron might also be a possibility. (Does anyone know how closely these are related to the 127mm Tominon? Both were used on Polaroids...)

Mark Sawyer
23-Dec-2006, 17:40
Oh, btw, I use a 150mm Eskofot Ultragon and a 150mm Konica GR-II as macro lenses on my 8x10, and found them very sharp corner-to-corner at larger than life size. They have a bit more coverage than the Ronar, though that shouldn't matter on 4x5. Both were sub-$100 on ebay.

Dan Fromm
23-Dec-2006, 17:53
Mark, what the 127 Ysaron and Tominon have in common is that they are both tessars and were both made for, among other applications, various Polaroid cameras. There's no reason to believe that they're the same lens made on contract. I'd swear I've seen Rodenstock propaganda that claims Ysarons contain rare element glass.

I'd expect that the GR-II is a bit better than the Ultragon. And the 150 Apo Ronar won't cover 4x5 at infinity. I use on at infinity at 2x3, it is a keeper.

Ken Grooms
23-Dec-2006, 20:31
I just got the Nikkor 120. Thanks everyone! $300 was pretty cheap for a dedicated macro. Plus I love my little format 55mm macro! I don't think I could go wrong.

stompyq
23-Dec-2006, 20:48
Congradulations on your new lens. It'll be intresting to hear your experiances with it.

naturephoto1
23-Dec-2006, 21:04
Hi Ken,

Congratulations on purchasing the Nikon 120mm. It is supposed to be an extremely fine performer. I can't believe the price that B&H has on the lens and I can not understand why they are selling out the last of this Nikon LF lens for so little (amazingly inexpensive considering the price of a Copal 0 shutter). If I hadn't already had the Schneider f5.6 Makro Symmar HM I would have probably purchased one myself.

Rich

neil poulsen
24-Dec-2006, 00:27
The 150mm Componon S enlarging lenses fit in a Copal 1 shutter and work fine. If one doesn't happen to have a Copal 1 for a 150mm lens, it's possible to calculate an adjustment factor for the f-stops. I think that one can just add or subtract a certain number or fraction of stops.

I've used this setup for macro photography, and I got sharp transparencies. But, I've never compaired results across multiple lenses for the same setup, nor for different levels of reduction or enlargement.

David Millard
24-Dec-2006, 03:47
Hello Ken -
Have fun with your new lens!

typestar
8-Jan-2007, 08:53
I can't believe the price that B&H has on the lens and ... If I hadn't already had the Schneider f5.6 Makro Symmar HM I would have probably purchased one myself.

Rich, I work on a Nikon 35mm setup, would love the Nikon AM 120 ED also; My "problem" is, it should fit on a PB-6 bellows and there I have no chance to choose the Nikon 120 ED...
About the Schneider f5.6 Makro Symmar HM -- I know that they build this lens also in barrels, how would you compare the performance of the Schneider with the Nikon Macro 120? (The Schneider in Barrel is sold in Europe for about 1200.- EUR, that is really a lot of money for the plastic barrel...)

Thankyou for a response!

christian

naturephoto1
8-Jan-2007, 09:05
Hi Christian,

I do not have enough experience with the Schneider Makro Symmar to make comment. Have only used it 1 or 2?? times thus far. But hope to use it more. I have never seen the Nikon lens either. You may however want to consider the the Rodenstock Apo Rodagon D 75mm lenses in either the f4 (optimized for 1:1 on 6 x 6 or 6 x 7) or the f4.5 (optimized for 2:1 on 6 X 7). These are very high quality duping lenses that were released by Rodenstock. If these are long enough in focal length they can certainly be made to fit a Nikon Bellows with an adapter. These lenses can frequently be found on eBay for good prices.

Rich

rob
8-Jan-2007, 14:43
The nikkor 120 am ed is a symmetrical design and has 52mm filter thread, so you can mounted reverse with a BR-2 reversing ring on the PB-6 bellows. The makro symmar hm and nikkor am ed are similar design, they should perform similarly. I have both, but I have not tested my new nikkor.

rob


Rich, I work on a Nikon 35mm setup, would love the Nikon AM 120 ED also; My "problem" is, it should fit on a PB-6 bellows and there I have no chance to choose the Nikon 120 ED...
About the Schneider f5.6 Makro Symmar HM -- I know that they build this lens also in barrels, how would you compare the performance of the Schneider with the Nikon Macro 120? (The Schneider in Barrel is sold in Europe for about 1200.- EUR, that is really a lot of money for the plastic barrel...)

Thankyou for a response!

christian

typestar
14-Jan-2007, 14:58
Hi Christian,

You may however want to consider the the Rodenstock Apo Rodagon D 75mm ... f4.5 (optimized for 2:1 on 6 X 7). These are very high quality duping lenses that were released by Rodenstock.

Rich, thankyou for this advice! I already use this APO Rodagon D 2x on my Nikon Bellows. It is indeed a VERY sharp lens, optimized for 2:1, but - on the other hand it is rather "hard" for a digital setup. I also got this lens for a cheap price and I will keep it. Just wanted to know, whether the NIKON would render smoother...

thankyou and kind regards:
christian

typestar
14-Jan-2007, 15:05
The nikkor 120 am ed is a symmetrical design and has 52mm filter thread, so you can mounted reverse with a BR-2 reversing ring on the PB-6 bellows. The makro symmar hm and nikkor am ed are similar design, they should perform similarly.

Rob, thankyou for this advice, but MY problem would NOT be the mounting BUT the shutter itself. HOW can I just use the blades itself and NOT the shutter, when I work with me Nikon 35 mm D200. The PB-6 works fine, each enlarger-lens like the Apo-Rodagons work fine, just the LF-Lenses in shutters will not.
How can I force just to use the blades of the NIKON AM 120, not the time-controlling Compur-Shutter; is there a possibility to build the lens in a barrel?
Schneider-Kreuznach builts all there lenses also in a barrel. As compur sizes should be the same, do you think there could be a possibilty to let the Nikkor lens fit in a barrel? Or how can I trick out the shutter?

Thankyou for your help!

regards: christian

naturephoto1
14-Jan-2007, 15:16
Hi Christian,

You could have an adapter made to put the Nikon lens in shutter on to the Nikon Bellows. To get around using the Copal 0 Shutter, set the shutter to B or T and use a cable release. If you set the shutter to B you will need to lock the cable release to keep the shutter open. If you set the shutter to T and press the cable release the shutter will remain open until you press the cable release a second time when the shutter will close. You still would have the ability to adjust the Iris Diagram on the Copal 0 Shutter for adjusting the aperture; exposure time would then be adjusted by the camera.

Rich

rob
14-Jan-2007, 23:04
Set the shutter at B or T, like what Rich said above. Your nikon camera will only see the center part of the image, so it will be super-super sharp. This type of lens usually is diffraction limited, so it would be best if you keep the aperture no smaller than f/8 or 11.

David Millard
15-Jan-2007, 09:21
Greetings Christian -

I have a possible solution to your quest: a near mint 130mm f/6.3 Leitz Photar II, optimized for 0.4-3.3X, with a T-mount (M42X1.0) thread. I was going to post this for sale on eBay, since I use shorter focal lengths for digital, and Zeiss Luminars along with a 120mm Macro-Sironar on my Linhofs, but I would gladly offer it to you instead. Please send me a PM or an email (you had contacted me previously about a 74mm S-Planar), and I'll send you images and more information.

Best regards,
David Millard