When was the film pack introduced?

[Bill_1856]

Although roll film was old stuff by the turn of the 19/20th century, it was the 1920s before glass plates were generally being replaced with sheet film. I wonder when the film pack was introduced?

[Mark Sampson]

I don't know when filmpacks were introduced, but Kodak made the last ones (4x5 Tri-X) in 1991 or '92.

[Ted Harris]

I know I was shooting with pack film in the 1950's and they weren't new then.

[Ole Tjugen]

The Perutz price list of March, 1934 has prices for pack film. So they weren't new then either (or the letters would have been bigger).

[Bill_1856]

Standard issue for the old 9x12 cameras from the '20s and '30s seems to have been 3 plate/film holders and a film pack adapter.

[Bart Nadeau_6607]

According to Brian Coe's book, Cameras, the film pack was patented by John Edward
Thornton (of Thornton-Pickard shutters) on 3/1/1898. He sold an exclusive license for manufacture to the Rochester Optical & Camera Co on 9/8/1902 who introduced its Premo cameras using film packs in 1903. Eastman Kodak bought ROC for the film pack shortly thereafter.
Although always more expensive than sheet film, they sure made using a Graflex or other larger format camera compact and very fast to use.

[Ole Tjugen]

Standard issue for the old 9x12 cameras from the '20s and '30s seems to have been 3 plate/film holders and a film pack adapter.
According to my 1934 Voigtländer catalogue, the film pack holders were optional extras. :)

[Mark Sampson]

It's a real shame that filmpack is gone. I imagine Kodak discontinued them when the two little old ladies, who were the last people who knew how to assemble them, retired. Or something like that. I worked for Kodak then, and photographed in LF too, and I never knew about filmpack until I took a workshop with Norman McGrath. It seemed like such a great idea (even better than Grafmatics) that filmpack was all I used until it was gone.

[Bruce Watson]

It's a real shame that filmpack is gone. I imagine Kodak discontinued them when the two little old ladies, who were the last people who knew how to assemble them, retired. Or something like that. I worked for Kodak then, and photographed in LF too, and I never knew about filmpack until I took a workshop with Norman McGrath. It seemed like such a great idea (even better than Grafmatics) that filmpack was all I used until it was gone.

Mark, can you or anyone else point me toward something on the 'net that explains (with diagrams) how a film pack worked? Some technical specifications would be nice too. If there are any around. I'm just curious -- I've never seen a film pack.

[Bill_1856]

Bruce, I don't know where there's a diagram of film packs, but if you've ever used a Polaroid peel-apart pack, it's nearly the same, except that instead of coming all the way out of the pack, the film is only pulled to the rear of the pack, and the paper leader torn off. That leaves a fresh film in the front of the pack (like the Polaroid), and individual exposed films can be "robbed" from the pack in a darkroom. A really neat arrangement. Imagine: 16 sheets of 4x5 film in a film pack adapter about the same size and weight as a regular double film holder.
I think it was a bunch of crap about the two little old ladies who assembled them retiring. If Polaroid and Fuji can make Instant film packs, they could make regular film packs with the same manufacturing proceedure.

[Bruce Watson]

Bruce, I don't know where there's a diagram of film packs, but if you've ever used a Polaroid peel-apart pack, it's nearly the same, except that instead of coming all the way out of the pack, the film is only pulled to the rear of the pack, and the paper leader torn off. That leaves a fresh film in the front of the pack (like the Polaroid), and individual exposed films can be "robbed" from the pack in a darkroom. A really neat arrangement. Imagine: 16 sheets of 4x5 film in a film pack adapter about the same size and weight as a regular double film holder.

Let me guess - the film was on the thinner roll film base. I'm thinking that because pulling film around to the back of the pack in a radius the size of the thickness of a "traditional" sheet film holder would seem to be a challenge with thick base sheets.

I just tried it and find it, well, difficult. One might be able to do it reliably within the thickness of a grafmatic back, but I'd wonder about the health of the film, particularly in cold weather.

If the film was on the roll film base, did it have any problems with flatness? Processing?

[Bill_1856]

Yes, the negative was on roll-film stock. I never had any problems processing in trays, but don't know about those using hangers (as I recall, different size hangers were used for sheet film and film packs). The problem was keeping it flat in a glassless enlarger carrier, (thus the NegaTran was introduced by Bessler). I think it wouldn't be much of a problem today, since flat-bed scanners are usually used today for printing, which is essentially like using a glass carrier.

[Jim Rice]

Let me guess - the film was on the thinner roll film base. I'm thinking that because pulling film around to the back of the pack in a radius the size of the thickness of a "traditional" sheet film holder would seem to be a challenge with thick base sheets.


It was. And they were so cool on a Graphic.