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View Full Version : New (used) Horseman 450 - some questions



Tim Shawcross
27-Nov-2006, 03:44
Hi all,

Just recieved a Horseman 450 camera today. I believe it's more or less the same as the new LE. I plan to use it to supplement my current field camera in locations that don't require a long walk from the car.

It's in good condition, but I've noticed a couple of issues.

Firstly, is there anyway to losen up the swing movements - both standards are very tight and don't want to move much at all. They will swing the full amount, but it's hard work moving them, and requires more force than I'd expect.

Secondly, should the swing lock move all the way across to lock movement? At the moment it will only move about a quarter of the way across before movement is locked. I'm wondering if I need to loosen a nut somewhere on the swing locks in order to make the swing movement more fluid?

Third, the 0 position of swing on the rear standard is not perpendicular to the rail - it requires about 1 degree of swing to get the camera correctly squared. I've noticed that there is a very small screw below that swing scale. On the front standard the 0 marking on the swing and this little screw line up. On the rear they dont. Is there a way to calibrate this scale - ie can the scale be rotated slightly independant of the actual standard?

Thanks!


Tim

Ted Harris
27-Nov-2006, 06:42
Hi Tim,

I am doing this from memory as the Horseman is in the studio and I am sitting in the house a hundfed yards away but here goes.

1) The standards should swing with a bit of resistance so that the move easily but don't flop about, they shouldn't be as tight as you describe. The swing lever works by friction and, yes, you should have the swing locked down tight with only a partial rotation of the lever. I have never had to disassemble the swing mechanism in my beast in the many years I have used it but I have taken many other parts of the camera apart to clean and realign and I assume the swing will be relatively easy as well. Take the standard off the rail and start to disassemble it from the boottom up till you get to the swing mechanism. I would guess that, over time, a lot of dirt and grit has gotten in there and that is the problem both with the stiffness and the alignment. Be careful when you do this as there are lots of small parts inside that you want to make sure don't pop out and get lost but it should be straightforward.

If this doesn't help and no one else chimes in send me a PM and I can take off a standard when I am in the studio and may be able to help more although my standards are a bit different than yours since I upgraded to the LS standards with base tilt a few years ago.

Tim Shawcross
27-Nov-2006, 22:03
Thanks for the info Ted. I'll have a go tomorrow night at taking it apart and hopefully it should be pretty easy to get it up and running. I'll let you know how I go.

Tim

Tim Shawcross
28-Nov-2006, 23:45
Ok, I had a go disassembling and fell at the first hurdle:mad:

I've attached a couple of thumbnails so hopefully that might make things clearer.

The first one shows the alignment problem - notice the hex bolt (dotted red line passes through it) - that is in the centre of the standard. This is where 0 should on the swing scale should line up with, as you can see the 0 is actually about 1 degree out.

I tried disassembling from the bottom. I removed the 6 screws from the plastic dovetail section that is used for the focus lock (seen in thumbnail 2). In the gap where the gear is I can see more, larger scews under the plastic plate. Problem is once the 6 screws are removed I can't slide the plastic plate out as the gear is in the way. I see no easy way to remove the gear.

The third thumbnail shows the end of the shaft which the gear is attached to (the silver seciton) and 3 small hex bolts along the bottom edge of the standard- I'm not sure what purpose these hexbolts serve. It looks like the gear is held in place by a pin (you can see this in the fourth picture. I think the knobs are held on by similiar pins - I'm not sure I have the right tools to remove and re-insert these pins, but I think getting the knobs of and the gear out may be the only way to proceed?

On a side note I tried taking apart the tilting mechanism on the front standard as well as this is a little stiff. This was a lot easier to attack, however I couldn't complete it as I got it striped down a certain amount and then I hit some screws that are too stiff and I don't want to wreck the heads. Is it ok to put some WD-40 on overnight, or will that wreck the paint work?

Ted (or anyone else) I don't suppose you have an exploded parts diagram from a manual for these cameras (even if it is a slightly different standard design) that you could upload?

Thanks for the help so far!

Tim

Ted Harris
29-Nov-2006, 07:31
Tim,

I have never seen a parts manual other than the drawings of the parts that are in the Horseman catalogue and they will do you no good at all as thety give no information on how one part attaches to another. You can call Casey at Nippon Camera Repair in NYC. He is very knowledgeable and helpful but you need to be patient with his English. You can als contact Horseman USA at 925-825-4795. I believe they have someone new there so I can't give you a contact name off the top of my head.

In terms of your specific case it is very hard to tell what to do next. I do get the general impression that there is some hard wear to the parts that you are showing and that could account for the problems. I will take a look at mine but not likely to have the time until late late today or tomorrow. You might also want to talk with Jim at Midwest and see what a new/used standard would cost you. If he has one to spare (which he often does) my guess is that it will be a lot less than you think.

Sorry I can't be more helpful right this second but will do my best later in the day.

homeiss
8-Apr-2013, 17:09
I know this is an extremely old thread, but I figured I would share how I fixed my jammed up swing lever on my Horseman 450. In the first picture posted by Tim, you can see a nut above the lever. That was the problem for me... I took a pair of needle-nose pliers and gripped the nut, then I pushed the lever to the right while pushing the pliers to the left. You have to do this in small increments because their is not a lot of room for the pliers. Just keep doing that movement until you get it to the desired looseness. It's worked well for me, hope it can help someone else.

Tin Can
8-Apr-2013, 17:21
Thank you! I have a few Horseman, they do get fiddly to take apart.

This is great advice, never think a thread is dead.

Thanks again!


I know this is an extremely old thread, but I figured I would share how I fixed my jammed up swing lever on my Horseman 450. In the first picture posted by Tim, you can see a nut above the lever. That was the problem for me... I took a pair of needle-nose pliers and gripped the nut, then I pushed the lever to the right while pushing the pliers to the left. You have to do this in small increments because their is not a lot of room for the pliers. Just keep doing that movement until you get it to the desired looseness. It's worked well for me, hope it can help someone else.

homeiss
8-Apr-2013, 23:40
Good to hear. Hope it can help.

Also, I found this process is easiest if you remove the whole standard from the rail and set it flat on your lap.


Thank you! I have a few Horseman, they do get fiddly to take apart.

This is great advice, never think a thread is dead.

Thanks again!