Imacon scanning.

[false_Aesthetic]

Hey,

The Imacons I've been using (848, 646, and that small one) have been scanning quite well but with greenish shadows (Fuji and Kodak negs)--I've talked to other people using diff. imacons and they say the same thing.

It's totally easy to correct this in photoshop, but I'm wondering if there's a way to make a "something" to correct this while scanning.

Thanks
T

[Kirk Gittings]

You need to create a modified profile for each film and save it. I don't have access to an Imacon every day, so I can't off the top of my head tell you how, but I have done it to tweak their profiles for my tastes.

[Brian K]

Anyone getting scan lines when scanning very high res? That is a repeating pattern of lines that are parallel to the ccd.

[vinny]

I've had the green tint when scanning negs but i don't regularly shoot color neg so i've fixed it in p. shop.
No scan lines either but i do sometimes get halos around medium density areas that bleed into the shadows when scanning tranparencies. Imacon doesn't offer any help and i've turned off any default settings i can.

vinny

[false_Aesthetic]

If you're getting a lot of lines it means that the lamp is goin' or the CCD is goin' or the connection for the CCD is loose.

If it's one or 2 pix. wide and happens every once and a while (which I've had happen) I'm pretty sure it means that something (processor or ram or something) was overloaded during the scanning. . . It happens to me when I'm opening a PS file and scanning at the same time.

[Chris_Brown]

The Imacons I've been using (848, 646, and that small one) have been scanning quite well but with greenish shadows (Fuji and Kodak negs)--I've talked to other people using diff. imacons and they say the same thing.
I used an Imacon years ago and had a very good discussion with then ImaconUSA president Andy Chang about scanning negs.

Problems arise when scanning negs because the blue channel is so compressed due to the orange contrast mask. To fix this a color/contrast/selective color adjustment must be made in the scanning software throughout a neg's tonal range.

To get these parameters nailed down, shoot test negs of the same scene, bracketed, using each film you like. Include a MacBeth color chart, (http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/index/products/products_colorcheckers/products_cc-overview/products_colorchecker.htm) black velvet (for Dmax) and a chrome object (for Dmin). Get a person in there, too, for familiar flesh tones.

Load up the processed film into your scanner and pour yourself a beverage of your choice. Clear all settings and begin at each end point, neutralizing the color casts. Use at least three midpoints to nail down the "3/4 grays, mid grays and 1/4 grays." Save this setting for that particular film, ISO, bracket setting. Use this as a starting point for each scan.

To test your results, make a quick scan and check the histograms of each channel. They should be evenly and equally spread from shadow to highlight, with no combing.

Lastly, even though you're scanning negs, you should profile your scanner (http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/index/products/products_color-mgmt-spec/products_cm-for-creatives/products_i1proof.htm) for the best results throughout your workflow.

I hope this helps.

[Brian K]

The scanner is 3 months old. The problem only occurs on the highest res setting. I thought about the bulb flickering but the problem is very uniform in it's pattern but not perfectly uniform. It's definitely wider than 2 pixels. I have attached a sample.



If you're getting a lot of lines it means that the lamp is goin' or the CCD is goin' or the connection for the CCD is loose.

If it's one or 2 pix. wide and happens every once and a while (which I've had happen) I'm pretty sure it means that something (processor or ram or something) was overloaded during the scanning. . . It happens to me when I'm opening a PS file and scanning at the same time.

[Chris_Brown]

The scanner is 3 months old. The problem only occurs on the highest res setting. I thought about the bulb flickering but the problem is very uniform in it's pattern but not perfectly uniform. It's definitely wider than 2 pixels. I have attached a sample.
In your first post you say the lines are parallel to the CCD. So, in your example the film is being inserted into the scanner from left to right (or right to left) not top to bottom, correct?

If this is the case, there's two things I can think of.
1) The transport motor is not moving at a constant speed due to power fluctuations. Is your scanner on a UPS that also stabilizes the voltage?
2) A voltage fluctuation is causing an inconsistent signal from the CCD.

Here is what Imacon has to say about it. (http://www.imacon.dk/sw339.asp#seventh)

Also, is your scanner under warranty? Imacon has excellent customer support. Give 'em a buzz.

Let us know what your solution is.
Good luck.

[Brian K]

Chris thanks for the reply. First the film is inserted into the 646 the standard way for a 6x120cm holder, that is the 6cm side is inserted into the scanner which then pulls in the 12cm length. The lines on the scan are parallel to the ccd.

The imacon is connected to a UPS but not to the battery operated outlet but a filtered surge protected and I assumed somewhat stabilized outlet. I was told in the past not to put motorized type devices into UPSs then again I do have a very high capacity (1500) UPS. I'll try this tomorrow.

I've spoken to Imacon CS and they suggested I swap fire wire cables and connections, which i did and which helped for a day and then got much worse.

[Chris_Brown]

Brian,

FYI, not all UPS units stabilize the voltage, they just prevent spikes and blackouts. They are typically not "line conditioners", which take dirty power and output a clean sine wave of power. If your UPS manual doesn't say it stabilizes the voltage, then it doesn't.

If you live in an area with heavy power machines in operation (e.g., a factory with an industrial warehouse crane and arc welding going on all day), or with easily interrupted power (e.g., flimsy power lines out in the country) then you have dirty power. It's usually the industrial "neighbors" who cause weird voltage/power fluctuations, not your toaster.

After looking at your example again, I'd be tempted to open up the scanner and give it a thorough cleaning. After a few months of operating my Imacon Flextight 2, I opened it up and was shocked to see a dirty lens, dust around the sensor area and on the bulb. The film transport drum on my model was rotated with a rubber belt, which was filthy.

If your drum is belt powered there may be crud causing the film transport drum to rotate erratically, giving you those pretty lines.

Also, you say you swapped firewire cables and the problem got better, then worse. Did the problem go away totally? Or was it minimized? With electronic issues, when the source of the problem is fixed the the issue is totally gone, not lessened.

Also, is your scanner powered by the firewire cable? Or does it use its own power supply?

[Brian K]

Hi Chris,

No industrial machinery around here. The scanner has it's own power supply. It's a 3 month old machine, which i didn't even use for 1 1/2 months. I think I'm going to return it. For $10k I expect it to actually work and not be so finicky.




Brian,

FYI, not all UPS units stabilize the voltage, they just prevent spikes and blackouts. They are typically not "line conditioners", which take dirty power and output a clean sine wave of power. If your UPS manual doesn't say it stabilizes the voltage, then it doesn't.

If you live in an area with heavy power machines in operation (e.g., a factory with an industrial warehouse crane and arc welding going on all day), or with easily interrupted power (e.g., flimsy power lines out in the country) then you have dirty power. It's usually the industrial "neighbors" who cause weird voltage/power fluctuations, not your toaster.

After looking at your example again, I'd be tempted to open up the scanner and give it a thorough cleaning. After a few months of operating my Imacon Flextight 2, I opened it up and was shocked to see a dirty lens, dust around the sensor area and on the bulb. The film transport drum on my model was rotated with a rubber belt, which was filthy.

If your drum is belt powered there may be crud causing the film transport drum to rotate erratically, giving you those pretty lines.

Also, you say you swapped firewire cables and the problem got better, then worse. Did the problem go away totally? Or was it minimized? With electronic issues, when the source of the problem is fixed the the issue is totally gone, not lessened.

Also, is your scanner powered by the firewire cable? Or does it use its own power supply?

[Chris_Brown]

No industrial machinery around here. The scanner has it's own power supply. It's a 3 month old machine, which i didn't even use for 1 1/2 months. I think I'm going to return it. For $10k I expect it to actually work and not be so finicky.
Good call, IMO, but if you want to post your issue to another group, try these guys. (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/imaconusers/)

I'm on my fourth scanner - a Howtek drum scanner. If you have any inquiries about scanning negs or chromes, let me know (although from the look of your work, it appears you really know what you're doing and don't need advice).

[Brian K]

Chris thanks for your help and your kind words. I'm really aggravated with the Imacon and over the next 2 weeks I'll determine if I am returning it and buying something else, maybe a Howtek, although I do not relish wet mounting my negs. But this problem is inexcusable and I have never seen it with ANY scanner.

[Struan Gray]

Brian, your problem looks and sounds like a classic case of AC coupling or RF pickup. It may be internal to the scanner - and the fact that you are getting perfect vertical lines suggests that it is linked to the pixel timing - but it may also be a something like a ground loop via your Firewire cables, or a poor shield connection at one end or the other.

Can you estimate how fast you were taking pixels: i.e. how many seconds the scanner was taking for each scan line, and how many pixels per line. That will give you the noise frequency and help to track it down. Nine times out of ten it turns out to be mains hum (60 Hz, 120 Hz and some higher overtones in the US) coupling via a ground loop, or 10-30 kHz from video monitors. If your house has more than one live phase it is just possible (but unlikely and dangerous) that your scanner and computer are on different phases, which can also give bad mains hum. If the problem is external, you can usually solve the problem by upgrading and re-routing cables, and moving or turning off emitters.

[Chris_Brown]

...over the next 2 weeks I'll determine if I am returning it and buying something else, maybe a Howtek, although I do not relish wet mounting my negs.
Brian, I strongly recommend getting test scans of your negs from a drum scanner before you buy. A drum scanner has a much higher acuity than a linear CCD array and thus film grain become much more apparent in the final scan.

The Imacon design (with its linear CCD arrray, lens, diffused light source) acts as a natural diffuser so film grain is not as harsh.

If you have any questions about the technology between the two types of scanners, let me know. As a test, I ran an Imacon and Howtek on the same SCSI chain, scanning the same images from chromes and negs. The results were surprising.

BTW, wet mounting is no big deal. Inert stuff, air dries.

[Ted Harris]

I'll echo Chris' comments on the Imacon, OTOH tests between drum scanners and Kodak/Creo, Screen, Fuji and other high end flatbeds are also interesting in this instance the output from these flatbeds is usually on a par with that from the drums. Of course these are a different sort of beast than an Imacon in terms of construction and cost but I did want to make that comparison for you. Thus, there is another option if you are shopping used hiugh end scanners. I shopped for a year and a half and looked at number of drums but finally made the decision to get a Screen Cezanne. My final decision was made after testing the machine side-by-side with a Tango. As has been said alos in this and other threads about high end scanners remember that a lot of the difference from one of them to another is the software and the skill of the operator.

I agree iwth Chris that wet mounting is no problem but be prepared for a learning curve on the software.

[Gordon Moat]

Just to add in a bit on other scanners, wet mounting kits are available options, or included, on Creo flatbed scanners. I also believe this is the situation with some of the Fuji scanners and the Screen Cezanne, though someone else might be better to confirm that. The weight of the machine is another consideration, with only the iQSmart line being not super heavy . . . compared to your Imacon, all the high end flatbeds are heavier, though not nearly as heavy as most drum scanners.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

[Ted Harris]

To add to Gordon's thoughts. First my Screen Cezanne weighs in at a bit under 150 pounds. You can wet mount on any of these scanners with ease. The Cezanne, for example, has a removable glass tray that I just take ut and load up then put back. Msot of the time I don't even need to do that, I use Prazio's Nati Newton Ring spray which is their lightest liquid; spray it on and down on the scanner goes the neg or trannie. When the scan is finished the fluid is evaporated.

[PViapiano]

Ted...

Could you use that Anti NR spray on an Epson V700 flatbed and plop the neg down on the glass, as you described?

[Ted Harris]

PV, Sure. You spray the film not the glass so no possibility of gunk getting into the works of the machine.

[PViapiano]

Ted...

Where can I buy Prazio products?

Doesn't seem to be a store on their website or sales info....and nothing shows up on Froogle.

Thanks!

[Chris_Brown]

Where can I buy Prazio products?

Find 'em here. (http://www.prazio.com/supplies.shtml)

You'll have to either open an account of pay with credit card. They're in Canada. Very nice people and extremely knowledgeable in drum scanning.

[Ted Harris]

You can call them direct at their toll free number to order 888 551 0582. BTW, while they are in Canada they ship from a US warehouse.

[PViapiano]

Ted and/or Chris...

Do you use any of the other Prazio products to clean the scanner glass or the film itself?

[Chris_Brown]

Do you use any of the other Prazio products to clean the scanner glass or the film itself?
I have a drum scanner and I use Prazio mylar overlays, their Anti-Newton oil, Tesa Tape, scanner wipes and drum cleaner. For cleaning film I use PEC-12 (http://www.photosol.com/pec12.htm) from Photographic Solutions.

[Ted Harris]

I use their wipes, their mylar overlays and sometimes their film cleaner. Ialso use PEC-12 and plain old straight denatured alcohol for cleaning fim and the scanner surface sometimes. Generally I wash the scanner glass with a very mild dishwashing detergent.

[DrPablo]

Is there any advantage to wet-mounting with consumer flat-beds?