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Scott Davis
16-Nov-2006, 15:14
Does anyone have a good source for film holders in this size? I've got an upcoming project I'd like to use this size for, and while I know I can search ebay ad nauseam to try to find them, I was wondering who currently makes them and how much they cost, approximately, and what is the expected turnaround time.

Sal Santamaura
16-Nov-2006, 15:20
Most of my answer was posted here:

http://www.apug.org/forums/showpost.php?p=393167&postcount=16

Turnaround time from Lotus, after finalizing the specifications, was a bit over four months.

Oren Grad
16-Nov-2006, 15:22
Scott, your best bet at the moment for getting delivery in months rather than years would be Lotus. But they won't be cheap - figure a few hundred dollars each.

Scott Davis
16-Nov-2006, 15:24
so in other words, scour the fleabay if I want them before January.

C. D. Keth
16-Nov-2006, 15:32
Probably that is your best bet. Since it's not much more work, look at auctions for 5x7 holders, too. I've seen full plate holders sold as 5x7 several times and they went very cheap. The last one was for 6 holders, in very nice looking shape, and ended at $27 with a $6 shipping charge.

Oren Grad
16-Nov-2006, 15:33
Scott - this would be a long shot, but Shen-Hao shows a humongous 6x8 studio camera-contraption on their website, behind the "wooden stand" link on their main page. Perhaps they could supply holders.

Ted Harris
16-Nov-2006, 18:24
Look at the UK eBay auctions as well, you might have better luck with full plate holders there. Also send an email to Gandolfi ... and for a real longshot check with calumet to see if they have any lying around.

Scott Davis
16-Nov-2006, 20:17
Thanks for all the ideas folks. I just emailed Mr. Li at Shen-Hao to see if he has any, and I'll start watching the UK ebay.

Charles Hohenstein
16-Nov-2006, 21:09
Scott - this would be a long shot, but Shen-Hao shows a humongous 6x8 studio camera-contraption on their website, behind the "wooden stand" link on their main page. Perhaps they could supply holders.

I wish that they made that studio camera in 11x14.

Scott Davis
17-Nov-2006, 09:08
Bad news folks- I just got an email from the Shen Hao people. I'm not entirely sure, but I got the impression that they don't make the studio cameras anymore, let alone film holders for them.

Ole Tjugen
17-Nov-2006, 09:35
Try Argentum?

http://www.argentumcamera.com/_angol/html_pages/home.htm

Bill_1856
17-Nov-2006, 10:08
Personally, I think that 6.5x8.5 is the perfect size for a view camera, but It's a long, gone format. I think that you're gonna have to be satisfied with your 5x7. Too bad.

Ted Harris
17-Nov-2006, 10:31
I'm not sure that 6.5x8.5 (full plate) is a long gone format. Dying for sure but not sure it is dead yet. Last time I looked you could still get 6.5x8.5 film holders and some film emulsions were available. I'll be looking again over the next week to see what has changed in the past year ... and I know a lot has .... as I update the film chart that was in the January 2006 VC.

Scott Davis
17-Nov-2006, 11:42
Email sent to Argentum. I'll let you all know what I hear back.

Ole Tjugen
17-Nov-2006, 14:07
It could take a while, but they (he) usually answers within less than a week. As soon as I'm sure I can afford it, I'm ordering a camera from Argentum.

Sal Santamaura
17-Nov-2006, 14:51
Personally, I think that 6.5x8.5 is the perfect size for a view camera, but It's a long, gone format...


I'm not sure that 6.5x8.5 (full plate) is a long gone format. Dying for sure but not sure it is dead yet...It's niether dead nor dying. There seems to be something of a resurgence based on the level of interest expressed here and at apug.org.

I carefully evaluated Ilford's outlook before making a commitment to having new wholeplate film holders and a camera constructed, even going so far as to independently verify the duration of its site lease at Mobberley. Both HP5 Plus and FP4 Plus ordered in this size were delivered as promised earlier this year after the first special order period concluded. Ilford promised additional special-size runs on an approximately annual basis. Sure enough, the second ordering window was opened two days ago, closes January 15, 2007 and delivery is estimated 10 weeks after that. Based on Ilford's performance the first time, I have no reason to doubt any 6 1/2 x 8 1/2 film ordered will be shipped.

Another potential wholeplate source will be J&C. Given that vendor's support of sheet film in many unusual sizes, it's likely that the product it plans to coat in its own plant will be offered 6 1/2 x 8 1/2. I integrated John's wholeplate dimensional data with Ilford's when developing my holder specifications for Lotus.

Whether using vintage cameras and holders, going the custom route I did or (hopefully) being able to purchase new cameras and holders from stock in the future, there don't seem to be any real impediments to shooting with this perfect size for a view camera.

Ole Tjugen
17-Nov-2006, 15:20
There's also the Wephota films - http://www.wephota.de/

I have no idea where they get their film, but they cut to any size.

Oren Grad
17-Nov-2006, 15:40
6.5x8.5 may have been near death, but it's now coming back to life as part of the broader emergence of specialist interests as an important force now that the overall market for traditional materials is smaller.

I've been tinkering on and off with the format for eight years now, using old cameras and a mix of old, refurbished and new holders accumulated over time.

When Ilford was seeking input about what its customers wanted in the wake of the reorganization, a few of us with an interest in the format spoke up - and to our very great pleasure, Ilford responded by adding whole plate to the list of formats it would offer under its special order program.

Now one round of the special orders has been successfully completed and another is opening, substantially lowering the barrier to obtaining a fresh supply of two first-rate modern films. And it's easy to have some of the eastern-European alternatives cut to order as well.

Many usable or fixable old cameras and holders are floating around, and eBay has made it easier than ever to find them. Craftsmen like Richard Ritter and Alan Brubaker do an excellent job resuscitating old equipment or adapting newer equipment where that is needed, and for those who have more resources, Ebony, Lotus or Canham can basically build or adapt whatever you want. The entry of Chinese manufacturers with lower production costs into the market may yet lead to a source for affordable new holders, too.

Those who never knew the format existed, or who did but wouldn't have thought of trying to resuscitate it single-handedly, now have a clearer and easier path to follow. While 6.5x8.5 will never be so popular or so common as 4x5 or 8x10, in this new era of traditional photography it should take a relatively small number of enthusiasts to keep it alive and flourishing for many years to come.

So if you think 6.5x8.5 is the perfect format, why compromise? Come join the fun!

Same goes for closet fans of other odd formats: don't sit around and lament what might have been. Go ahead and do it - the barriers are lower than they've been in generations, and it's the best way to assure that it's the ongoing health of these niche markets that becomes the self-fulfilling prophecy, rather than their failure.

Jason Greenberg Motamedi
17-Nov-2006, 15:59
Toyo used to make beautiful whole-plate film holders. I used to have a few of them, but foolishly traded them for something I didn't need. I don't know what the possibility of finding them, but if you know someone in Japan perhaps you could have them keep an eye out for you. Alan Brubaker will probably make beautiful holders for you, however his prices will be high and turn-around time very very slow.

Oren Grad
17-Nov-2006, 16:08
A postscript to Jason's point: Tachihara made whole-plate ("yatsugiri") holders and a matching adapter back for the Musashino Rittreck View camera. However, these holders are slightly longer than the Eastman holders that are most commonly found, and they don't fit my Eastman-standard camera backs.

I've never had one of the Toyo holders in hand for testing, but as they are of Japanese manufacture it is possible that they were built to the same standard as the Tachihara holders.

Kerry L. Thalmann
17-Nov-2006, 16:34
One problem with the 6½x8½ format is that there was never a single universal standard for the holders. It was in it's height of popularity back in the days before ANSI and ISO stadards existed. I know this first hand as I used to own two full plate cameras - a beautiful Gandolfi from the 1920s and a Century that was even older. They both took different size holders. In fact, when I bought the Century it came with some holders - they didn't fit the Century, but were a perfect fit for the Gandolfi. I also had some nicely made relatively modern Hoffman holders that fit the Gandolfi. Anyway, just a warning to make sure you you don't buy full plate holders blindly assuming they will fit your full plate camera. Measure carefully and ask for a trial period when buying sight unseen.

Alan Brubaker has full plate holders listed on his web site (http://www.filmholders.com/) at $250 - which actually seems pretty reasonable compared to what I'm used to paying for 7x17 holders. I don't know if he has any in stock, or what the lead times would be, but if you're looking for 6½x8½ it would certianly be worth a call.

Kerry

Oren Grad
17-Nov-2006, 16:58
I'm amazed at how many different T-distance specifications Alan has in his list - I wonder what he's thinking, and where he got all the numbers from.

At any rate, the rib-lock distance is critical for fitting holders to an existing back. But while it's best to have a matching T-distance, it's often possible to make do with a slight mismatch in that respect.

Jim Galli
17-Nov-2006, 23:28
I've been working quite a bit in 6.5X8.5 of late. It looks so pretty printed on 11X14 paper with a pure white rebate centering the picture. I had an old Century camera that I was using but recently I adapted a back to the Kodak 2D 8X10 so the Century will be sold. The holders are definitely a challenge. The main reason is that 95% of the used ones are for plate. By the time sheet film was gaining popularity full plate was already in decline and not very many film holders ever got made in the first place. I've been cutting all my 6.5X8.5 from 100 foot long rolls of 10" Efke 100 cirkut film. About .55 cents a shot but I will admit that dirt and lint is problematic from all the extra handling of cutting the film 2 times. Good luck finding some holders.

Oren Grad
18-Nov-2006, 10:04
The main reason is that 95% of the used ones are for plate.

I guess I've had better luck in my holder hunting - or else tunnel vision. On second thought, maybe the latter is the likelier explanation... ;)

Seriously, I have plate holders too, but also a bunch of film sheaths that make them readily usable with film. You won't always find plate holders and film sheaths with the same sellers, but with some patience you can eventually find both. Sold separately, the "useless" plate holders and film sheaths are often quite cheap, too.

Another source to keep an eye on, BTW, is Equinox Photographic (http://www.equinoxphotographic.com/), a small outfit that seems to specialize in odds 'n' ends and occasionally has a few whole-plate holders or sheaths in stock.