Such thing as field camera with geared movements?

[Terence Patrick]

I'm currently using a Super Graphic and while I generally like it for its portability, I really wish it had geared movements (which I got used to using loaned Cambo and Sinar cameras). Is there such thing as a portable field camera with geared movements? If so, what price range are they usually?

Second question, how portable is a Sinar F2? My only experience with Sinar is a one day use of a P2 and it didn't seem all that portable to me. I'm not looking to backpack with it, but I do tend to shoot portraits and lifestyle subjects mostly, so I'm looking to have it easily moved from place to place while it's attached to a tripod (Manfrotto 475B). I shoot DSLR for a lot of my commissioned work, but would like to start incorporating LF for a new look/experience/challenge (also use an RZ67 for my film work).

[JJ Viau]

Hello,

My Wista VX has geared tilts and front rise. That is also the case with the Technikas. With those camera however, you won´t be able to focus with the rear standard, which proves a big change compared to a monorail. A lot of people will surely quote Arca Swiss as example for portable monorails, some of them with geared movements.
The F2 is much more portable and ligther than a P2. What I do is take the camera on its rail away from the tripod and carry it like a handbag (camera in one hand, tripod in the other one). Pretty easy!

JJ

[Atul Mohidekar]

Hi Terence,

Arca Swiss F-Metric with Micrometric Orbix. It has geared movements, is very rigid and precise and becomes quite compact when both standards are closed together on to the short, foldable monorail section. It is not a "field" camera in the sense it does not close up into a box, but can be easily transported in a backpack. For short distances of a few yards/feet, it can be moved while attached to a tripod. The "field" version uses smaller front standards/lens boards to make it even more compact.


// Atul

[Jean-Marie Solichon]

A Sinar F1 is even lighter than a F2 and you won't miss any important feature in the field. I would'nt like moving with the Sinar attached to the tripod, but you can easily separate the rail from the clamp and walk while holding the camera by the rail.

[Walter Calahan]

I'd second the Arca-Swiaa F-Metric. I have an Arca-Swiss, but not that model, but two friends have the F-Metric and love its precision. Not to take away from the fine workmanship of the Sinar F1.

[CXC]

I believe the F in Sinar F supposedly stands for Field, so they at least Sinar thinks of it as portable.

IMHO gearing is for the tabletop boys. I bet it wouldn't take that long to get adept with a non-geared camera.

[Brian Ellis]

"My Wista VX has geared tilts and front rise. That is also the case with the Technikas."

Technikas don't have geared tilts, only geared front rise.

I believe the Wisner Pocket Expedition has geared front tilts and maybe some geared back movements. They sell used for about $1500 - $2000. AFAIK they aren't made new any more since Wisner seems to be out of the new camera business. But Wisner still has a web site (www.wisner.com I think) so you could go there and see exactly what geared movements the Pocket Expedition has (or maybe someone here who uses one will chime in).

I don't know of any other field camera that has more geared movements than the Pocket Expedition. While the definitions in the LF camera area are a little slippery, I wouldn't consider the various cameras others have mentioned here to be field cameras. They're monorails that are light enough to carry around without breaking your back but they're still monorails.

[Brian Vuillemenot]

I use a Wisner Technical Field that has geared axis tilt in the back. As mentioned above, the Pocket Expedition has this movement in both the back and front standard. It's really not necessary, and I almost never use it. I usually use front base tilt.

[Terence Patrick]

I believe the F in Sinar F supposedly stands for Field, so they at least Sinar thinks of it as portable.

IMHO gearing is for the tabletop boys. I bet it wouldn't take that long to get adept with a non-geared camera.

I'm currently using a non-geared camera and while I can get by, it takes me a bit longer to get where I want to go. I suppose I just prefer the geared movements.

[Oren Grad]

The Toyo VX125 (http://www.toyoview.com/Products/VX125/VX125.html) is a compact monorail that has geared rise and shift on both front and rear standards. Not cheap, but some users find it a nice compromise between the portability of a field camera and the full control of a monorail.

[Eric Brody]

Since Oren mentioned the Toyo VX 125, I have a friend who I believe is selling his. He takes wonderful care of his equipment. If you're interested, PM me your email and I'll send it on to him.

Eric

[David A. Goldfarb]

An F-series Sinar is more portable than most people think. If you want to carry it in the most compact and secure way, you can slip it off the rail and condense it into a block in a backpack. If you want to carry it in a flat briefcase type case, you unclip the bellows, turn both standards parallel to the rail. In a shoulder bag, it might be easiest to carry it with the bellows unclipped, one standard folded in toward the rail, and the other standard raised and folded down over it.

On an F or F1 only the rear focus is geared. Tilt, swing, and rise are friction controlled, but tilt and swing have scales and calculators, so they can be controlled fairly precisely. The F2 adds geared focus to the front standard as well.

With the detents and scales, the camera is pretty quick to set up in any of the folded modes, but it's not self-casing like a flatbed camera. Weight is comparable to a Technika.

[Jerry Flynn]

My 5X7 Eastman 2-D had geared movements. There was also a gap in the geared teeth that let me swing or tilt manually. I don't know if this was a feature or a fortuitous accident.

[Terence Patrick]

An F-series Sinar is more portable than most people think. If you want to carry it in the most compact and secure way, you can slip it off the rail and condense it into a block in a backpack. If you want to carry it in a flat briefcase type case, you unclip the bellows, turn both standards parallel to the rail. In a shoulder bag, it might be easiest to carry it with the bellows unclipped, one standard folded in toward the rail, and the other standard raised and folded down over it.

On an F or F1 only the rear focus is geared. Tilt, swing, and rise are friction controlled, but tilt and swing have scales and calculators, so they can be controlled fairly precisely. The F2 adds geared focus to the front standard as well.

With the detents and scales, the camera is pretty quick to set up in any of the folded modes, but it's not self-casing like a flatbed camera. Weight is comparable to a Technika.

That's great info, thanks David!

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Let me start by saying I've never bought into the arbitrary notion that a monorail isn't a field camera. If a camera is small enough and light enough to carry in the field, why isn't it a field camera? If it was designed by its manufacturer to be used in the field, why isn't it a field camera? There are several examples of monorail cameras that fit this description. Just because their standards ride on a rail seems like odd reason to say they aren't field cameras.

The Toho and Gowland are two of the lightest, most compact field cameras ever made - and they happen to be monorails. The Linhof Technikardan and ARCA-SWISS F-Line series are examples of full-feature monorails that are intended to be used in the field.

Personally, I use a Toho FC-45X, an ultralight sub-3 pound monorail as my backpacking camera. I use a custom-configured ARCA-SWISS F-Line as my main 4x5 field camera. The ARCA-SWISS F-Line is also the basis for my 4x10 Swiss Lotus (http://www.thalmann.com/Ebay/Swiss Lotus Phase 3.JPG) and my 7x17 Franken-ARCA (http://www.thalmann.com/Franken_ARCA/Franken-ARCA_3.jpg) - which collapses smaller (http://www.thalmann.com/Franken_ARCA/Franken-ARCA_2.jpg) and takes up less space in a pack that any other 7x17 camera I know of. These are all monorails that I use in the field. Although, I've used folding wooden flat bed cameras in the past, I switched to monorail field cameras a number of years back for a variety of reasons.

For example, my custom-configured 4x5 ARCA-SWISS F-Line only weighs 3 oz. more than the 4x5 Wisner Technical I used to own. Compared to the Wisner, the ARCA is more durable, more rigid, easier to use, more precise, faster to set-up and tear down and takes up about the same space in my pack. It's easier to operate with gloves on and much easier to use with wide angle lenses. Weight-wise, its within about half a pound of a Linhof Master Technika, a Toyo AR-II or a Wista SP. It's also in the same weight range as comparably-featured Ebony models. My specific camera has the 45cm telescoping rail, the 171mm rear format frame and a 110mm F-Line Metric front format frame with Micro-Metric Orbix geared axis tilt. This gives me a field camera capable of handling lenses from wider than I'll ever own up to a 450mm Fujinon C. It has self-arresting geared front rise and self-arresting geared front axis tilt. The self-arresting geared front movements make fine tuning the composition and front tilt a snap while observing the affects on the ground glass - only requiring one hand to due so freeing the other hand to loupe the GG at the same time.

I've assembled my 4x5 ARCA-SWISS from bits and pieces over the years (it started out as a stock F-Line Classic). The latest addition was the new front format frame with the geared movements (which added only 2 oz. of weight compared to the non-geared 110mm front format frame). Since I have the standard F-Line function carriers, I don't have geared shift on the front. Nor do I have any geared movements on the rear. If you desire geared movements beyond front rise and axis tilt, the F-Line Metric would be the way to go. Also, my camera uses the older 171mm rear format frame. New ARCA-SWISS cameras use a 141mm rear frame that saves a few ounces and makes the camera a bit more compact when collapsed for transport. If you don't use longer, non-telephoto lenses, the lightest ARCA-SWISS model is the Misura. It weighs in at about 5.5 lbs. - in the same range as many folding wooden cameras.

Of course, the beauty of the ARCA-SWISS cameras is their modular design. This lets the individual user configure the camera to meet their specific individual needs. Need a compact wide angle camera for architecural photography - no problem. Need a camera capable of using really long lenses - no problem. Need to upgrade to a 5x7 ror 8x10 - or cobble togther your own 4x0 or 7x17 - no problem. It really is the most versatile system available. And, since you are used to using a Sinar, you'll feel right at home using an ARCA-SWISS. It's much more similar in operation and feel to your Sinar than any wooden camera or metal clamshell design and that should mean less of a learning curve and less frustration when you're trying to get it set-up to take an image in the field when the light is changing rapidly.

Kerry

[GPS]

Absolutely right, Kerry. It's complete nonsense to think that a monorail cannot be used as a field camera. As you show with some examples they can be used as a field camera even better than other field cameras. Me too I use the Arca Swiss 6x9 F metric as a field camera - so much better that my "real" field camera is eating dust at home... It's simply silly to accept the difference between the two types as a foreign border that you cannot trespass.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

The problem with the monorail vs. field camera comparison is you're comparing a type of camera construction (monorail) to an application (field camera). They are not mutually exclusive. My sub-3 lb. Toho has a lot more in common with a sub-3 lb. Anba-Ikeda than it does a 19 lb. Linhof Kardan Master GTL, ven though both the Toho and the Lihof are monorails.

Now, some people may prefer a different type of camera construction, say folding wooden camera for use in the field, but then the debate becomes lightweight monorail vs. folding wooden camera for use in the field, not monorail vs. field camera.

Kerry

[GPS]

What probably attracts some amateurs to the field cameras as opposed to the monorails is the self containing box for the latter. But one can make a lightweight case for a monorail too and what you take out of this case can be deployed quicker and easier for the action than many field cameras, thus making them the true field cameras. I think some monorails should be sold or exposed in serviceable cases so that people would see it directly as a viable option well comparing with field cameras. A shell enveloping a monorail with both standards and a lens on would be an excellent example of this idea but it seems that it never dawned on constructors. That is unfortunately the case even for Arca Swiss, their cases are like from the last WW. The Misura in its shell is just an idea not taken to its full realization. Paradoxically, it is just their self-containing box that makes the deployment of field cameras so slow and their construction often so frail.

[Ole Tjugen]

... A shell enveloping a monorail with both standards and a lens on would be an excellent example of this idea but it seems that it never dawned on constructors. ...

The Carbon Infinity may be the only "fully-shelled monorail" - except that it has a double rail. The bottom half of the shell is part of the camera construction, the top is a lid which must be removed. It folds nicely with a smallish lens inside - up to and including a 180mm f:5.6 Symmar, a 210mm f:6.1 Xenar or (in mine at the moment) a 150mm f:4.5 Apo-Lanthar.

It's somewhat heavier than most wooden field cameras, but not too heavy to be easily transportable even in very difficult terrain. And in the really difficult terrain around here, I'm really glad to have a camera in a shock-proof carbon fiber "tortoise shell"!

[GPS]

If a monorail = 1/2 a"duo-rail", is a valid equation then it perhaps applies... Still, the case for a monorail is often the week point of its use in the field. Not even constructors crossed that mental border. I realized that when I saw that I could take the fully ready small Arca Swiss from an imaginary case, put it on the tripod and shoot. Then I made a case for the "ready Arca". Now I just think about a way of making the appropriate shell from something...

[cyrus]

If I remember right, the old Calument cc400 monorails have geared front rise and fall and focus

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Terrence,

Well, of course there is the Eastman 2-D (5x7, 8x10)!

Of course it has no shift movements at all. Its movements are FRONT: rise/fall, focus; BACK: tilt, swing, focus - all geared.

Best regards,

Doug

[steve simmons]

Has anyone thought of the Wista 45P? A compact folding camer with geared tilt and rise on the front. This camera folds up very nicely. 12" of bellows without the extension and there is a wide angle bellows available as well.

steve simmons

[steve simmons]

Has anyone thought of the Wista 45SP? A compact folding camera with geared tilt and rise on the front. This camera folds up very nicely. 12" of bellows without the extension and there is a wide angle bellows available as well.

steve simmons

[Ron Marshall]

If you don't intend to backpack but want to carry the camera on a tripod over your shoulder, you could do that easily with a Sinar F1/2. I have done it often with my F1. I have also backpacked with the F1. But if you are considering an F2 you could also go for a Toho, which is not as rugged as the Sinar, but less than half the weight.

[Jim Noel]

A Sinar ALpina has all of the features of an F1, but uses a different rail. It is very light and comes in its own attache style fiberglass case which makes it the most portable full featured 4x5 I know of.

[cmace127]

Sorry to dig this thread up again. I have been looking for a camera similar to what is described here as I like to idea of very precise movements/focusing. Importantly, I would like it to be lightweight and protective as I plan on hiking with it.

I almost settled on a Master Technika but the Chamonix 45F-1 seems very appealing due to its cost and weight. The Cham is not geared and technically has quite uncontrolled movement due to rise-tilt and shift-swing each being controlled by one knob. Of course, that is a trade-off due to its low weight. Ideally I would like to have a decent amount of rear movements available.

Are geared movements really worth the weight? Any thoughts on this? I am relatively new to LF - in case that alters your recommendations.

Thanks

[Alan Gales]

Are geared movements really worth the weight?

Yes and no. Only you can decide that. You say you are going to be hiking with the camera. If you plan on doing a lot of macro work then I would say yes. If you just plan on doing general landscape photography then geared movements are not necessary.

For the price of a Master Technika you can buy a Chamonix 4x5 and a used, geared Sinar P monorail and have the best of both worlds.