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Struan Gray
3-Nov-2006, 03:38
My wife and I have just bought a new house which includes a space that is perfect for a large panoramic print. Suddenly I find myself reading all the old threads about big prints and trying to figure out how I would 'do a Gursky'.

What I know: the wall space is 6 m x 2 m, but after leaving room for lighting and white space a print around 3 m x 1 m in size is about right. I can live with the grain from a 4x5 negative enlarged that big: you will need a step ladder to get close to the print, and it's likely to be fairly abstract anyway, so fine detail is less of an issue.

What I want: I'd really like to get a painter to paint a fresco, but that's not going to happen any time soon. But, the print should be as flush with the wall as possible, and ideally should have a matt surface. I'm not too fussed about 100-year archivability, but I don't want to have to replace the print because of colour shifts in, say, the next ten years.

My options (as I see it): inkjet onto canvas, mounted onto a stretcher with/without a frame; or one of the face-mounting methods like Diasec or silicone onto acrylic. I'm leaning towards face-mounting, perhaps with an extra aluminium or acrylic backing, but feel I don't know enough about it yet.

Questions:

1) Anything I've missed? Other ways of framing/mounting such a large panorama without creating a noticably thick box on the wall?

2) Can large face-mounted prints be shipped without damage and without incurring ludicrously high shipping costs? Inkjet onto canvas has the advantage that it can be shipped as a roll and put on a stretcher in-situ.

3) How matt are the matt/pearl acrylic sheets used for Diasec/silicone mounting? I don't mind a bit of texture, but I don't want to lose clarity.

4) How do people physically attach a large face-mounted print to the wall?

Grateful for any ideas and advice.


Struan

Jack Flesher
3-Nov-2006, 11:04
Hi Straun:

1) I don't think you've missed much... There is a semi-flexible backing product call "Sintra" that you might look into. Calypso imaging lists some options: http://www.calypsoinc.com/

2) Unfortunately, once mounted, shipping options disappear and costs skyrocket at the sizes you are talking about.

3) Don't know for sure

4) Clips along the edges

Spray mounting large prints by hand is asking for almost certain problems. You might have a shot if you can get about three people to help you: One to spray adhesive in advance of the print, another to unroll the print slowly as the third carefully rolls the surface of the print to adhese it to the backing -- and all this while keeping everything lined up...

Cheers,

Bruce Watson
3-Nov-2006, 11:48
1) Anything I've missed? Other ways of framing/mounting such a large panorama without creating a noticably thick box on the wall?

2) Can large face-mounted prints be shipped without damage and without incurring ludicrously high shipping costs? Inkjet onto canvas has the advantage that it can be shipped as a roll and put on a stretcher in-situ.

3) How matt are the matt/pearl acrylic sheets used for Diasec/silicone mounting? I don't mind a bit of texture, but I don't want to lose clarity.

4) How do people physically attach a large face-mounted print to the wall?

1) You could mount to an aluminum plate. Rumor has it you can mount to an aluminum honeycomb if you want to trade money for weight. I have no idea how you'd ship it. OTOH, you aren't likely going to get any closer to the wall than this -- around 15 mm or so.

2) Shipping is an excellent reason to print to canvas. OTOH, really large face mounted prints in your size range are being made and shipped. This I believe is Chris Jordan's current technique so you might want to check with him.

3) no clue

4) no clue

I've made a few large prints. My biggest is 150 cm long and 93 cm high. I opted for canvas. Excellent results. Highly recommended.

If you go the canvas route you can (and should) get the printer to coat the canvas with a UV protective varnish. There are dozens of different types. You can usually specify how matte or glossy you want it (typically controlled by mixing matte and glossy varish together in the proportion to give you the surface you want). Do this before stretching -- the varnish helps support the coating and the ink and prevent cracking.

Then consider a floater frame. With a floater frame you'll want to stretch the canvas and staple on the back of the stretcher bars (not the side where you'll see the staples). This technique is refered to as a "museum wrap." This means more canvas (image plus room for stretching), and you'll probably want to print a black boarder around the image that's a bit wider than the stretcher bar is thick. This technique pretty well limits you to an image that's 100cm tall from a 44" printer, and whoever does the stretching is going to curse you a bit. It would make everyone's life a little easier if you would make it 95cm instead, or have it printed on wider canvas with a wider printer ;-)

The black border and floater frame with a black interior really makes a nice finish - the image really looks like it's floating about 3 cm off the wall (depending on the depth of the floater frame of course).

Alternately, you could use a conventional frame like you would for any oil painting. Whatever makes the best transition from the art to your decor...

Doug Dolde
3-Nov-2006, 16:14
I like Gatorboard. Calypso has 1/2" listed which is pretty stiff. They also have a UV laminate. I think a glossy print/matte laminate works best. Could be mounted in a thin Nielsen black metal frame to seal the Gatorboard edges.

Ron McElroy
3-Nov-2006, 19:15
It looks like you've researched your options well. I method not discussed is printing on canvas, coating with a UV protective varnish and the glueing the canvas directly to the wall like some muralist do. I believe this would be the simplist method of hanging. It is a more permanent method of mounting.

slbowen
3-Nov-2006, 22:19
Along the lines of the last post. If you did like the mural approach (the image mounted to the wall), digital images can be printed on adhesive backed vinyl or on canvas that is prepared to be applied like wallpaper. "Digital Wallpaper" is something you can google. The adhesive backed vinyl is a technique any commercial oriented large scale graphics/signage company would be able to do (places that do billboards, tradeshow graphics, banners and the like).

I've explored things like this with regards to doing public art projects.

Susan Bowen
www.susanbowenphoto.com

Bruce Watson
4-Nov-2006, 06:31
Along the lines of the last post. If you did like the mural approach (the image mounted to the wall), digital images can be printed on adhesive backed vinyl or on canvas that is prepared to be applied like wallpaper. "Digital Wallpaper" is something you can google. The adhesive backed vinyl is a technique any commercial oriented large scale graphics/signage company would be able to do (places that do billboards, tradeshow graphics, banners and the like).

Good point. I've seen some material that look just like plaster. It's function was to imitate a fresco when printed. I'm not sure where to find it, but it was out there maybe a few years ago so it might still be available. IIRC you applied it to the wall like you would a wall paper. That is, with standard wall paper paste. I think it came in four foot widths so you might be able to make your print in one piece. It would probably be easier to hang in smaller sections though...

Struan Gray
6-Nov-2006, 00:48
Jack, Bruce, Doug, Ron, Susan, thanks for your replies and ideas.

I hadn't really considered a mural approach, but if I can find the right blend of print quality and surface texture that might end up being the favoured option. The adverts I have seen for local services are mostly aimed at the cheesier end of the market (large screen pitches, over-driven colours) but it's an avenue I should explore further.

Thanks Bruce for the detail on canvas mounting. It's my wife's preference at the moment, and it does solve a lot of logistics hassles. The floating frame look is something I associate with large 50s-60s abstract paintings, and I want to avoid the feel of photography as painting-envy, but that look would fit with both the house's style and my personal inspirations so it may win out in the end.

I'll try to post a digisnap when it's all finished.

Michael Rosenberg
6-Nov-2006, 16:21
I have had 4-5 orders from the gallery that represents me for large digital prints (largest was 42x52). All were mounted in slightly different ways. The largest was mounted on thin aluminum plate with the white boarder of the paper, and then plexi and a 3 inch black frame. The al. plate had brackets on the back for hanging. This was done by a local graphics shop that prepares convention materials for companies. Every large city should have such a shop.

Several 32x40 prints were shipped to a place in NY city that mounted it directly to plexi, and then to al. plate. A one inch support/hanging frame was on the back. No boarder. This gave the appearance of floating on the wall! The prints had to be crated up for return.

Both of these techniques required a special mounting machine.

They also mounted a 30x36 in. print on foam core, and then a dark gray frame. The dark gray frame was better than the black because it did not compete for black in the print itself.

None of these options are very cheap!

Good luck.

Mike

Struan Gray
8-Nov-2006, 03:50
Michael, thanks for your input - it is really useful to hear how others have approached this problem.

I think my major problem is that I am going to be spanning two worlds: fine art print framing and commercial signage. I want something on a comercial scale but with a fine art attention to detail and finish. Thanks to this thread I have a better idea of what to ask for, and what I can reasonably expect. The price doesn't worry me (within reason) except that my heart will ache if I have to choose between looking at an expensive ugly mounting job and junking it.

Aside: one of our professors here has a truly wonderful large chinese painting on his office wall. His wife can't bear to have it in the house after the framing shop glued it to the backing, despite repeated entreaties not to, and reassurances that they wouldn't. At least my print won't be irreplacable.

A further aside: Susan, I love your work.

chris jordan
11-Nov-2006, 09:31
Struan, I'd recommend a big Lightjet print from Duggal in NY. They can be made up to 6x12 feet (!!), and shipped to you rolled in a tube. Then you can have the print mounted on 3/4" gatorboard, which is very flat, lightweight, and relatively inexpensive when compared with sintra, face-mounting, etc. Assuming that no one in yours house smokes daily, and the print is away from direct sunlight and cooking grease smoke, then the print will last for many years without anything on the surface. If the print ever gets badly damaged, you can have another one made at that time, and still be out less money than if you had gone the face-mounting route.

Cheers,

~cj

tim atherton
13-Nov-2006, 09:51
Struan, you could probably go the route of getting the print made elsewhere and then seeing if you can get a suitable sized sheet of Alcubond (or Dibond) locally cut to size. Brushed matte aluminium looks nice - have it cut bigger than the print, then mount the print to the front

(contact Alcan Sweden or whovever is their subsiduary there - as well as being used in construction, it's also used by people doign commercial signage)


tim

Greg Lockrey
13-Nov-2006, 17:19
I would think that the simplist solution would be to have an inkjet print on canvas and stretched on wooden bars like a canvas painting. If you needed to move it, 1m x 2m really isn't that large, but could be disassembled.

Struan Gray
16-Nov-2006, 02:01
Chris, Tim, Greg, thanks for the input.

I am making/ordering/collecting sample prints and trudging around the local framers and signmakers. Still not sure which way to go, but at least the options are narrowing.

A plea: any Danish readers with recommendations for print or framing workshops in Copenhagen?

paulr
16-Nov-2006, 09:03
a couple of alternatives (you might have already thought of and rejected ...)

you could have it printed in 3 panels that hang as a tryptych, or something like that.

or you could do the contemporary thing and pin the mural right to the wall.

scott_6029
16-Nov-2006, 09:24
I recently got to see some Joan Meyers work. Very large panoramics of the Antarctic. Digitally printed - very nice. You may want to shoot her an email. She was very helpful. I think she was using quadtone and hannumule paper...but she had a variety of work - poster sized panos - 17-30" I think, on up.....50+ inches wide...etc.

robc
20-Nov-2006, 06:58
Just came across this which may be useful.

http://www.muraspec.com/Content.asp?PageID=57