PDA

View Full Version : Is Shen Hao the ideal budget field camera for me?



Anupam
1-Nov-2006, 13:24
Hello,

I am a beginner in LF photography, having started out about a couple of months ago with a Bender 4x5. But I have shot over a hundred sheets in this time so I think I am beginning to get a sense of the limitations of the Bender. I love the fact that it is so light but I think I would really like something more compact and with more precise control over movements.

I want to retain as much of the movements of a monorail as possible but think it might be a good idea to move to a field camera. Now, the little bit of reading that I have done seems to indicate that the Shen-Hao model is the best option if one wants a versatile field camera that is less limited than the Graphics or B&J press cameras. They sell for about $600 new and a little cheaper used, so as a student they are at the very upper end of my budget.

So I would appreciate any opinions about whether this would be the camera to get for me or if there are any other options I should consider. I would like to be able to shoot at least a 90mm (preferably a 75, if possible) with movements without having to change bellows and don't need to go beyond the 360mm of maximum extension that the Shen Hao claims. (http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=120) Also, does this camera fold up with a normal - say a symmar 150mm - lens installed? Any other quirks that you might point out about the shen Hao or other comparable cameras would be appreciated. And of course, if there's anyone near Madison, WI who would let me look at their camera that would be much appreciated too.

Finally, I don't print very large and so the film size is less important than having movements. So, I am planning on getting one of those roll film holders. Should I get the Calumet C2 which does 6x7 or the graflok 6x9 for the Shan Hao. Which is more compact or better in any other way. I prefer the 6x7 aspect ratio because I'll mostly print 8x10.

Thanks for any help,
Anupam

Scott Davis
1-Nov-2006, 13:39
I've had a Shen Hao for almost six years now. Great little field camera. There are lighter, and cheaper, options out there, but I think you'll be very happy with it if you go down that route. I have found mine to be very well made, and very reliable. You can use a 90 with limited movement using just the standard bellows on a flat lensboard. You can use a 75 with it on a flat board as well, with essentially no movement. With a 75, there's virtually no movements you'll want anyway, other than maybe a tiny bit of front tilt, which can be managed. I have a WA Dagor 110mm that I can leave mounted on the front standard and close up the camera. You won't be able to do the same with a 150 - the shutter itself is too thick. Even the 360mm is more than you'll need unless you are shooting a long non-telephoto lens or you're doing extreme macro work with a 210. The 300mm or so of normal bellows draw (without wangling around with front and rear standards) is enough to get you almost 1:1 with a 210mm lens, and enough to focus a Fuji 300T telephoto lens to about four or five feet. Your best bet is to order one from Badger Graphics or Midwest Photo, as they'll let you try it out before you're committed.

Gordon Moat
1-Nov-2006, 13:46
Hello Anupam,

I have a Shen-Hao HZX45A-II, which I got through Badger Graphic Sales (http://www.badgergraphic.com/) in Wisconsin. While it does offer a range of movements, I would not call it precise. There are few to no markings on the movements, unlike to more technical monorail cameras. If you want geared movements, or markings for the tilt and swing, other cameras might be better choices. The HZX45A-II has markings on the front standard for rise and fall, and a scale on the focus rails, but no other markings. The ground glass has a grid system on it of 1cm squares, including 6x7 and 6x9 markings, which I find quite good enough for lining up building edges when doing architecture shots.

My 135mm fits inside the camera when it is folded, though only if I flip the lensboard around prior to closing the camera. Depending upon which 150mm you get, it might work in the same way. This can free up some space in your camera bag. My 210mm will not fit inside the closed camera.

Rollfilm backs are a completely different range of choices. There are numerous options out there, and very different price ranges. A rollfilm back that slides under the ground glass can be easier to use than a back that requires you take off the ground glass holder. After looking at many choices, I ended up with a Linhof Super Rollex, which does 56mm by 72mm shots (slightly longer than some 6x7). I like having the lever wind, rather than a red window style of advance. A Polaroid 405 pack film back is another thing I use, though like the Linhof rollfilm back, I have to remove the ground glass to use it.

So the movements in the Shen-Hao are easy to use, but I cannot state they are more precise than your Bender camera. I find them accurate enough for doing architecture, but I think it has much to do with comfort levels in using the gear. Maybe you can get over to Badger Graphic Sales, and see some other choices, then make a better decision on what you might want to use.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

Joseph Dickerson
1-Nov-2006, 13:56
Hi,

The Shen Hao is indeed an very capable camera. The one that I worked with for about three months was solid, well made, and did everything that I asked of it. As far as shorter lenses are concerned the 75mm will compress the bellows leaving very little movements. I did not have access to a recessed lens board but I think that would have alleviated the problem to some extent. A 65mm lens, on a flat board, is actually within the body when focused at infinity so no movements are possible, even with the bag bellows.

Again, a recessed board may have made a difference. I worked with a 90mm on a flat board with the bag bellows , 135mm, 210mm and even a little with a 300mm. The 300mm is a Geronar which has a short flange distance, that's the distance from the lensboard to the film, so I was able to focus relatively close.

My only gripe was that I felt the stock ground glass was very dim. A fresnel lens or a brighter focusing screen (Satin Snow?) would be my first upgrade. I do a lot of historic architecture so for me the bag bellows would be a neccesity but changing the bellows on the Shen Hao is a simple matter.

The camera is rather heavy as field cameras go but it offers a lot more in comparison to the other cameras in its price range. Actually it offers more than many cameras costing twice as much.

You could use any roll holder, I worked with Calumet and Toyo holders, 6x7cm and 6x12cm, 545 Polaroid, and Fuji Quickload.

I was able to fold the camera with my 135mm Fuji W but only by mounting the lens board backwards with the front of the lens inside the bellows. My 150mm Caltar HR would not fit, but I played a bit with a Caltar IIE 150mm (Rodenstock Geronar) and I'm sure it would have worked in the normat orientation.

As others have pointed out, there seems to be issues with quality control on Chinese products so buying for a recognized dealer like Badger is highly recommened. Jeff always seems to have the cameras in stock and stocks all the accessories.

Joe D.

Brian Vuillemenot
1-Nov-2006, 14:17
Yes!

Joseph O'Neil
1-Nov-2006, 15:51
Consider the Tachihara as an alternative to the Shen Hao. Like you, I started out with the Bender, and I still have it - see my avatar. :)

I saw both cameras in person, and I decided Tachihara for a few reasons. First off however, the Shen Hao does have better movements than the Tachihara, but I have found the Tachihara to be more than adequate for my needs. When I have need for greater range of movements, I go pull out my monorail.

The things i liked about the Tachihara over the Shen Hao were:

- brighter fresnel screen/ground glass. I have two, F9 lenses - RD artar and G-claron, and in any light, but especially near sunset, that brighter screen is a lifedsaver when focusing at F9;
- much llighter camera - important when backpacking;
- quality of workmanship I think is better. Chinese quality control is notoriusly inconsistant, so if you do buy a Shen Hao, doing so through somebody like Badger (whom I got my Tachi from) is a lot better than off some unknown Ebay seller;
- looks prettier. Seriously, I got the Rosewood and chrome version of the Tachi, and it really stands out. Okay, so that's not soooo important, but hey, make me feel good. :)

One weakness about the Tachihara compared to the Shen Hao is the front standard. For example, I have one of those 380mm Tele-Raptars, and those are long, big, heavy lenses. Too much for my Tachi, I use it on my Crown Graphic, but I think the Shen Hao sould handle a lens like that no problem.

So I suppose you should ask yourself what kind of lenses will you eventually use? 90 and 150mm, no problem either camera.

As for the roll film back, never used one myself on any LF camemera (my roll film back is called "Mamyia" :) ), so cannot say how it works on the Tachihara.
good luck
joe

dyuhas
1-Nov-2006, 18:29
I've owned the Shen-Hao since March, and I've dropped it once. If you're looking for a "precise" camera, the Shen is not it. For example, when tilting the front standard, the focus shifts when you tighten the knobs. And focusing is very stiff. I had to buy a camera lube to be able to use one hand to focus. (Jeff at Badger suggested candle wax.) OTOH, as I read somewhere else on this board, the Shen is a better camera than Adams or Weston ever had.

Dave

Anupam
1-Nov-2006, 18:53
Thanks for all the responses. I understand about the precision and don't need one of those sophisticated monorails. But with the Bender, even paralleling the two standards seems like a hit and miss affair. I suppose I can expect a bit more control on the Shen Hao.

Okay, now to add a twist to the tale :), I might be able to get a used Wista for the same price as a new Shen-Hao. Should I go for it. I have no clue about Wista cameras. How do they compare?

Thanks,
Anupam

Scott Davis
1-Nov-2006, 20:04
Frankly, the Wistas are well made, but certainly as a new product, they're overpriced. I think the Shen is a more attractive camera, but I don't know if the Wista is in fact better or worse with quality than the Shen.

As to Dyuhas' comment about front focus shifting when tilting- of course it shifts when you tilt - the front standard uses base tilts which are non-asymetric. This ain't no Arca-Swiss or Wisner Technical. I've never had the front standard move out of position when tilting on mine, or shift while locking down. I've screwed it up trying to focus with the locking knob, though, since I'm a lefty and I keep trying to do that by reflex.

Brian Vuillemenot
1-Nov-2006, 20:31
I've heard that the Wista is just a rebranded Tachihara. The Tachihara, while a bit lighter, is much less sturdy than the Shen-Hao. It is not realistic to expect a wood field camera to be quite as sturdy or precise as a metal monorail, but the Shen is way more sturdy and precise than necessary and as well built as many wood field cameras costing several times the price. At least mine is- I've heard that quality control can vary quite a bit!

Greg Lockrey
1-Nov-2006, 23:01
Jack Flesher on this site has one for sale. He's a "high end" kind of guy. If I had a need for one I wouldn't think twice about getting it from him.

Oren Grad
1-Nov-2006, 23:15
I've heard that the Wista is just a rebranded Tachihara.

This is true only of the 8x10 Wista and the very scarce 5x7 Wista. The 4x5 Wista is different from the 4x5 Tachihara.

Songyun
1-Nov-2006, 23:32
Let me point out a few thing here. The graflock of Shen hao is not easy to use, in other words, it is not easy to take off the ground glass. So if you plan to use some roll film holder, you should seriously think about that.

You can have 1cm front rising when using 90mm with standard bellow.

And I hear someone complained about the back shift /swing control.

if 600 is the budget, you don't have much choice here, either Shenhao or Tachihara, but Tachihara doesn't have graflock.

Harley Goldman
2-Nov-2006, 16:36
My first camera was a Wista. I cannot compare it to a Shen or Tachihara, but I was not that impressed by the Wista. Based on all the comments I have read over the years, you get much more value for the $ with the Shen or Tachi.

scott_6029
2-Nov-2006, 17:24
The Shen should work fine for field work...however, if you are concerned about precision, an ARCA SWISS DISCOVERY is a nice alternative. More money, but maybe you can find one used.

Jack Flesher
2-Nov-2006, 18:48
Thanks for the kind feedback Greg!

Since I have my Shen FS, I feel like I have a conflict of interest responding here -- but with that caveat, I will add some general comments. First, I do have a post under the camera forum where I compared this Shen to an Ebony which expands on many of the Shen's features.

In addition I have owned a few wooden folders over time, among them a Wista and Ikeda Anba. I can say with absolute certainty that the Shen is *far* more sturdy than either of those cameras -- but it is also heavier. All three of them have similar bellows extension and movement capabilities. As beginner cameras however, I feel good arguments can be made for any of them and that none are going to be a "bad" choice.

IMO it's more important to pick one and start shooting. Afterr using them for a few months, you'll have a better idea what you might want or need in -- or even if you need -- a more advanced camera.

Cheers,

Brian Ellis
2-Nov-2006, 22:19
"I've heard that the Wista is just a rebranded Tachihara. The Tachihara, while a bit lighter, is much less sturdy than the Shen-Hao. "

You have the Tachihara confused with some other camera. The Wista isn't a rebranded Tachihara, Wista is an entirely different camera made by an entirely different company. The cameras that are rebranded Tachiharas are the Calumet Wood Field and the Osaka. And the Tachihara is at least as well built as the Shen-Haos I've seen. Tachiharas have now been around for about 25 years so they have a pretty good track record.

Harley Goldman
3-Nov-2006, 16:35
I would agree with Jack. Just get a camera and shoot. Odds are whatever you buy first will not be the camera you end up with. A used Shen or Tachi would be a great start.

BTW, I bought a used Toho from Jack a couple of years ago and could not have been more pleased with the transaction. The camera was even better that described and Jack was extremely helpful. Just in case you were considering his camera.

Jack Flesher
4-Nov-2006, 06:29
Thank you too Harley -- and glad you are still enjoying the Toho!