Pushin' film and finer grain.

[false_Aesthetic]

Ok,

So I just had a crit with Justine Kurland---totally awesome. But she wants me to start shooting at night---"on the fly."

I'm looking for a b/w film (120 for right now) that can be pushed or is 1600-3200 . . . . but i'd Like to keep the film grain down (at least, I don't want big cotton balls of grain).

I guess I wonder if a 3200 pulled to 1600 speed film will have more or less grain than 400 speed pushed to 1600. What dev. work better for what films, etc.

I totally realize that I'm going to get grain. I'm ok with that . . . I'd just like to keep it down as much as possible.

Thoughts?

Thanks

T.

[C. D. Keth]

Ok,

So I just had a crit with Justine Kurland---totally awesome. But she wants me to start shooting at night---"on the fly."

I'm looking for a b/w film (120 for right now) that can be pushed or is 1600-3200 . . . . but i'd Like to keep the film grain down (at least, I don't want big cotton balls of grain).

I guess I wonder if a 3200 pulled to 1600 speed film will have more or less grain than 400 speed pushed to 1600. What dev. work better for what films, etc.

I totally realize that I'm going to get grain. I'm ok with that . . . I'd just like to keep it down as much as possible.

Thoughts?

Thanks

T.

Ilford's Delta 3200 is quite nice looking fopr such a fast film. I shoot it in a holga from time to time.

[Robert Ley]

I think that your best bet is Ilford Delta 3200 developed in Ilford DDX. I had heard that DDX was developed for this film and works very well. It is my general developer for most of my B&W work. I use it with HP5 and FP4 and like it very much. I don't know how large you plan on making the prints, but the grain may not be that bad. Check this site for developers and times for 3200 http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html

[Ron Marshall]

A good friend of mine has a 20x24 print of a TMZ neg made with his Leica.

It is grainy, but nowhere near as grainy as I would have pictured it prior to seeing the print. A 16x20 from roll film should be reasonably good.

Ilford's data sheet for Delta 3200 lists it's ISO as 1000, anything more is a push and will boost grain.

[Hans Berkhout]

you could develop a bit short and subsequently intensify with selenium.

[Jay DeFehr]

Ron,

I don't think TMZ is available in 120, is it?

I'd go with Delta 3200, as it's the fastest film available in 120 by a wide margin. I develop this film as all others, in 510-Pyro, and really like the look I get. It's not grainless by any means, but the grain is hardly noticeable (to me) in an 8X10 print from a 35mm neg. Have fun!

[Mark Sampson]

False, my experience in 35mm suggests that TMZ @ 1600 is grainier but much sharper-looking than Tri-X @ 800, both developed in diluted XTOL. I used the TMZ for a little project photographing some musician friends in a local club, with excellent results.As I've just bought a MF camera, I'm going to try Delta 3200 in it- just to get around its f/3.5 lens.

[Donald Qualls]

I'm looking for a b/w film (120 for right now) that can be pushed or is 1600-3200 . . . . but i'd Like to keep the film grain down (at least, I don't want big cotton balls of grain).

In 120, your choices are very, very limited here. There's Delta 3200, which is really an ISO 800-1000 film designed to push well, and there's Tri-X in Diafine (which goes anywhere from 1000 to 1600, depending how you measure). Both will be grainy, but IMO neither is objectionable, for that kind of work, in 120. I've shot Tri-X (400TX, not 320TXP) at 1600, processed in Diafine, in 35 mm, and don't find the grain objectionable; both films should look quite a bit better than that on 6x6, 6x7, or 6x9 frames; with a thorough rinse after the B bath you can give the film a second cycle and get to around EI 3200, and still not be terribly grainy.

However, lens speed is likely to be a major limitation. The fastest lenses that are at all common on a Speed Graphic or similar LF camera that can be shot "on the fly" are about f/4.5; not too many Aero Ektars mounted on Speeds, and those are seriously difficult to hand hold well due to weight, but 135 mm and 150 mm f/4.5 are fairly common, not too heavy, and can even be inexpensive if older glass will do the job for you. Shoot those at f/5.6 or f/8, however, to get enough DOF and avoid the softness older lenses show when wide open, and you can get into uncomfortably long exposures for hand holding, even at EI 3200 (while I've hand held my Speed at 1/20 on the focal plane shutter, I certainly wouldn't expect to get good results every time at that speed).

If you're willing to do a little custom mixing, I've got some experience with a brew that will push 400TX to about EI 5000, still with decent tonality (given that low light tends to be harsh light anyway) and with grain that shouldn't be a major problem from a 6x6 or larger frame -- you'll need Dektol, HC-110, some washing soda (or technical grade sodium carbonate monohydrate), and some vitamin C powder (97% ascorbic acid USP). If interested in trying this brew, post back and I'll point you to the mixing and processing directions.

Of course, if you're in light that requires EI 5000 to get a comfortable hand hold, you may have problems with metering... :eek:

[erie patsellis]

Donald, I for one would be interested, as well as any experience people have intentionally trying to get some coarser grain (~'70's era Tri X pushed)

erie