Tiny hairline scratch - probably not a big deal, right?

[walter23]

I feel almost like a fool for even putting this up here, but I just got a 90mm large format lens in almost perfect shape, but for one thing - a tiny hairline scratch on the front element that you can barely see. Any of you guys shoot with minor (or major) scratches? Any effect, particularly if you shoot in backlighting (where I'd guess flare might come up)?

Again I doubt it's an issue, and like I said it's very small (and you can only see it at some angles), but I don't even own a large format camera yet to shoot any test shots on.

Bah, it's probably fine. :)

[Ted Harris]

You are right that it is probably fine. A related question is did you pay a fair price considering the scratch.

As an example I have a Fuji 240A with 4 hairline scratches 2mm long on the rear element .... absolutely no impact in any type of light and Ihave been using the lens for years.

[walter23]

$400 for a grandagon 90/6.8 (caltar nametag). Wasn't described as scratched (ebay).

These usually go for $400 to $500 in variable condition (and keh has one for like $800 with the rodenstock nametag on it) so I don't think the price was bad.

[Brian Ellis]

Where is the scratch? If it's near the edge of the glass it almost certainly won't matter, if it's more towards the center it might but even there if it's as insignificant as it sounds from your description it won't be a problem.

[Capocheny]

If it's as minor as you suggest... it won't be a problem whatsoever!

Cheers

[E. von Hoegh]

Walter,

I use a 9.5" Dagor with a nasty looking 9mm scratch right in the middle of the rear surface. I filled the scratch with India ink, and it has no discernible effect when compared with a pristine lens of the same design and focal length. Shoot a few pics with your lens, and be happy!

[walter23]

Shoot a few pics with your lens, and be happy!

Yeah, I would normally just do that except that I bought this lens anticipating the rest of my large format startup kit (which I'm getting at the end of the month). I'm pretty sure it's not going to affect most of my images.

I mean, I've shot my digital and 35mm with worse dust and stuff on the lens and it's only bad if I get water drops on the lens, and I have a downright wretched looking taking lens on a rolleiflex that produces beautiful shots.

I guess I'll just contact the seller and decide what kind of ebay feedback to leave. I looked at it again this morning and decided, even though it's about 1.5 cm long and in the middle of the front element, that it's probably not going to be an issue. It seems to just be a scratch in the multicoating, and it's not too noticable except at certain angles, so I could almost imagine the seller overlooking it (seemed to be a pro selling a lot of gear, and a few other auctions of his disclosed minor flaws).

Thanks for the feedback, and I'm glad nobody said "IT WILL RUIN THAT ONCE-IN-A-LIFETIME IMAGE!" :) Like I said, if I even had a camera I'd go out and do some real photography with it and then decide.

[Donald Qualls]

One thing you can do to make that kind of insignificant scratch even less likely to cause problem is fill it in with India ink. Just wipe it onto the surface of the lens with a soft paper towel dampened with the ink, or swab it on with a cotton swab, give it a few seconds, then wipe the excess away with a microfiber cloth (which will come completely clean if promptly washed in cool water with a little dish soap, followed by regular laundering without fabric softener).

The black will reduce the light scatter from the irregular interior of the scratch and reduce its optical effect to essentially zero.

[Darcy Cote]

If it bothers you, return the lens to the seller. He either did not know it was there or inaccurately described the condition. You got the lens in a condition you did not expect to be in. About the scratch. If the rear element is scratched on the back, then there could be a problem but on the front especially hairline you won't notice a difference. I am sure some of the optical experts on this forum could explain why the rear of the rear element damage would be an issue rather than the front. But I just know it as a fact. I once had a Nikon 180mm lens I bought for 35mm that was scratched to hell on the front element. I would have liked to knock the person on the head I bought it off of for not caring for the equipment. But the selling price was so good I figured what the hay. That lens was the sharpest lens I had ever owned and probably ever will own despite the scratches. What a fricken great lens.... Anyhow.

[Mark Sawyer]

Some years ago I bought my 8x10 Kodak Master, and it came with an uncoated 12" Dagor that is very, VERY scratched and pitted front and rear. I'd always wanted one of these legendary cult lenses, but this one was so bad that I just put it away and never even tried it...

A few months ago, I had a sheet of 8x10 left in the last holder, and on a lark, decided to see just how badly the lens performed. The negative and the prints it gave are sharp and beautiful. You can't tell much from a crappy scan, but here's a thumbnail you can enlarge, and the detail in the print is finer than the eye can resolve.

[Jim Jones]

Walter -- I have a 90mm Angulon with a much worse scratch in the front element, and it makes good images. If you are concerned, contact the seller and try to work something out. I probably wouldn't bother.

[John Kasaian]

I'd use the lens first and see. If by scratch you mean a wipe mark, its most likely not a problem. OTOH if it is a scratch you can feel, filling it in with india ink or paint will often do the trick.

[Ralph W. Lambrecht]

Walter

I read all the other advise and agree, but reading between the lines and making the assumption that this bothers you now, I can only tell you, give it back. This will bug you forever. You will always know, and the doubt will never fade. You bought it recently and the scratch wasn't mentioned. Ask for your money back and get another one.

[Frank R]

To ease your mind, read the Dirty Lens Test by clicking on the bottom of this page:

http://www.deansofidaho.com/

[Eric James]

To ease your mind, read the Dirty Lens Test by clicking on the bottom of this page:

http://www.deansofidaho.com/

Click on "Old Stuff (Classic Cameras)" and scroll to the bottom to find the link - most impressive!

[erie patsellis]

well, it it's any indication, this 210 Componon lens:

http://www.shelbyvilledesign.com/IMG_1086.jpg

took this picture (8x10 neg scanned)

http://www.shelbyvilledesign.com/8x10test.jpg

Much to my surprise, none of the rather large defect shows in the final print.
this experiment has given me a new view on how to finish out my lens complement at a price I can afford. My 360 Componon has a small snowflake on the rear element, it does show in the specular out of focus highlights, so some care is needed. (yes, I know it's fogged, I was testing some lith film I dug out of the closet, exposed at an EI of 6, processed for 5 1/2 min D76 1:1)

erie

[Ralph W. Lambrecht]

How about spending less money on alcohol and more on lenses? :)

Just kidding, but you left that one wide open.

[erie patsellis]

Ralph,
Yeah, I did, one of the "benefits" of having a younger roomate, he hasn't reached that point in life where drinking and women isn't the focus of your life.


erie

[walter23]

Wait, on that 210... the big black smudge is a big chip? On first view I thought it was a reflection and that you were talking about what looks like little pits. Bit of perspective I guess :)

I really just wish I had a camera to test with. It's en route, but I haven't got it yet.

The seller was very good and offered to take it back. I'll take some test shots next week and make up my mind.

[Capocheny]

Walter,

Since you're in Calgary... take it down to The Camera Store and speak with them. I've always found them to be pretty decent folks to deal with.

Alternatively, ask if they rent out lf cameras.

All of the good advice notwithstanding... if you're remotely anal retentive like many lf shooters are... Ralph is right. It'll bug your butt until the situation is rectified. Sure, it won't be an issue in so far as the image goes... but it'll still bug your butt just "knowing" that there's a problem there.

Or, at least... that's the way it is with me! :)

Cheers

[erie patsellis]

Yup, figured I had nothing to lose, as I basically bought the shutter and got the lenses for free. I was just as shocked that it worked as well as it did.

erie

[walter23]

Yeah, they are pretty good there. I am pretty anal retentive about my gear, *but* returning it is a hassle, and I got what I consider a pretty good price for it (KEH sells the rodenstock stamped one for $800 in EX condition, so half that for a lens with a hairline scratch probably is a fair price).

Anyway the seller seems cool with taking it back if necessary, and I get my shenhao next week, so I should be able to brutalize it with worst-possible-scenario lighting and see if I get any unwelcome little ghosts in my images.



Walter,

Since you're in Calgary... take it down to The Camera Store and speak with them. I've always found them to be pretty decent folks to deal with.

Alternatively, ask if they rent out lf cameras.

All of the good advice notwithstanding... if you're remotely anal retentive like many lf shooters are... Ralph is right. It'll bug your butt until the situation is rectified. Sure, it won't be an issue in so far as the image goes... but it'll still bug your butt just "knowing" that there's a problem there.

Or, at least... that's the way it is with me! :)

Cheers

[Capocheny]

Yeah, they are pretty good there. I am pretty anal retentive about my gear, *but* returning it is a hassle, and I got what I consider a pretty good price for it (KEH sells the rodenstock stamped one for $800 in EX condition, so half that for a lens with a hairline scratch probably is a fair price).

Anyway the seller seems cool with taking it back if necessary, and I get my shenhao next week, so I should be able to brutalize it with worst-possible-scenario lighting and see if I get any unwelcome little ghosts in my images.

Walter,

So, it's the 90 Caltar f4.5?

If it is... $400, IIRC, isn't a bad price for it but it isn't a GREAT price either. Do a check on "completed transactions" on the bay to see what the market pricing is on a lens like that.

Cheers

[walter23]

No, 90 f/6.8. Don't bother telling me I got burned if I did, because I don't want to hear it ;)

They seem to be selling at about $500.


Walter,

So, it's the 90 Caltar f4.5?

If it is... $400, IIRC, isn't a bad price for it but it isn't a GREAT price either. Do a check on "completed transactions" on the bay to see what the market pricing is on a lens like that.

Cheers

[Capocheny]

No, 90 f/6.8. Don't bother telling me I got burned if I did, because I don't want to hear it ;)

They seem to be selling at about $500.

No, you didn't really get burned... :)

Let us know how it turns out, ok?

Good luck.

Cheers

[walter23]

I'm happy with the lens now. I've shot a 20 box of type 54 with it and a couple of negatives - I haven't really tested it in the kind of conditions where I might expect to notice any effect, but I'm pretty sure it's fine.

Cheers.