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View Full Version : For 4X5 Field camera Gitzo Carbon fiber or Aluminum



Songyun
18-Oct-2006, 07:42
Hi, I have a bogen 3001 which doesn't support my field camera very well. I decide to buy a Gitzo 13XX tripod(as my last tripod). The question here is should I buy a carbon fiber one or an aluminum one? Some people suggest that Aluminum tripods is heavier and better for large format. What about hanging something under the carbon fiber tripod, will that make it as steady as the aluminum tripod?

CXC
18-Oct-2006, 09:17
I feel that carbon is superior; the only reason to prefer aluminum is the lower price.

Gitzos with a center column come with a hook on the bottom of the column, if you like that technique. A Gitzo 13xx, carbon or aluminum, should suffice for just about any 4x5; I personally use mine with 8x10 and wouldn't upgrade under any circumstance.

Ron Marshall
18-Oct-2006, 09:28
I hesitated to spend so much on a tripod, but I am very happy I did. I have a Gitzo 1227. It is perfect for my 3lb Toho. If you are going to do any hiking with the camera go for CF, your legs and back will thank you.

David Rees
18-Oct-2006, 10:20
I use my G1348 with my Wista DX 5x4, and it normally is more than enough tripod for the job. I used to use a (heavy!) Graf Studioball head with it, but being left-handed, found it awkward, so moved over to an Acratech Ultimate head. That is a very light, and stable combination. However, wind can be an issue with 5x4, so I swapped out the flat plate on the G1348 for the rapid column, and then replaced the column with the short version (G1339, I think). This permits a hook to be attached to the base of the centre column, on which I hang my camera bag for some additional stability. My bags are so full of stuff that they press against all three legs, adding not only weight, but also dampening vibrations from the wind.

Having used CF tripods (I started with a G1228, which I still keep for extended hikes) for a number of years now, my aluminium tripods never come out of the cupboard any more. I should sell them, because I can't imagine a circumstance in which I would want to use them. CF is expensive, but once owned, never regretted.

evan clarke
18-Oct-2006, 10:22
Hi,
I have a 1325 Gitzo and the same Gitzo tripod configutation in aluminum. The carbon one is much, much steadier..Evan Clarke

Bruce Watson
18-Oct-2006, 10:28
I hesitated to spend so much on a tripod, but I am very happy I did. I have a Gitzo 1227. It is perfect for my 3lb Toho. If you are going to do any hiking with the camera go for CF, your legs and back will thank you.

Same here. Excellent combination. Well worth the money!

Brian Ellis
18-Oct-2006, 11:20
I have both a Gitzo aluminum and a Gitzo carbon fiber tripod. The aluminum one has a permanent home in a corner of my garage. I haven't used it in years, it's just too heavy to be carried comfortably for any distance.

squiress
18-Oct-2006, 11:48
I bought two CF tripods in the last couple of months. Both are Benro, which is a Chinese clone of the Gitzos. I have the 128 and just got in a 328. Both are 4 segment legs and I couldn't be happier with them. I got mine off of Buy it Nows at Ebay. Have compared them to their Gitzo counterparts and they are of excellent build quality and 50-60% of price of Gitzo. As well I bought a Benro ball mount that is clone of ArcaSwiss B2?. Wonderful and cheap. Will it hold up? Who knows, but they are certainly working out well for now. I have both 3221 and 3243 Bogen tripods and they weigh a ton by comparison to CF.

Stew

Frank Petronio
18-Oct-2006, 11:59
I would love to see a Benro in person.

The only drawback with CF is that I am used to tossing my metal tripod into a large Lightware Cargo Case with all the light stands and durable gadgets. A CF tripod would get major fatal dings if I tried that. Yet I'll be damned if I give up one of my precious two checked bags for a tripod, and putting a CF tripod into a case to put inside of a larger bag would sacrifice a lot of precious cargo room too (but it might help me stay under the 50# airline limit, hmmm).

A 1227 Gitzo CF for light travel without anything else does look attractive. Do you really think the Benro is equal to the Gitzo?

Songyun
18-Oct-2006, 12:16
Thanks everybody for your opinion, I think I will go with the 1327. Yes it is expensive... the tripod and a head might be more expensive than my 4X5 camera. I know when you start with 4X5 it is not very expensive, but when you get serious, everything is expensive. Hope this gonna be my last tripod. By the way, how do you carry tripods? gitzo has a bag for the 13XX, but that is very expensive.

And How about tripod heads? I tend to buy arca swiss B1, I have a pan tilt head bogen 3030, but the tilt part is not very smooth, especially arround horizontal level.

Ron Marshall
18-Oct-2006, 12:28
I would love to see a Benro in person.

The only drawback with CF is that I am used to tossing my metal tripod into a large Lightware Cargo Case with all the light stands and durable gadgets. A CF tripod would get major fatal dings if I tried that.

Frank, I covered my 1227 with foam water pipe insulation sleeves. Not only do they protect the tripod well, but as a bonus they contribute to the geek image fostered by my Photogs vest which keeps women from bothering me while I am communing with my ground glass.

Ron Marshall
18-Oct-2006, 12:31
By the way, how do you carry tripods? gitzo has a bag for the 13XX, but that is very expensive.

And How about tripod heads? I tend to buy arca swiss B1, I have a pan tilt head bogen 3030, but the tilt part is not very smooth, especially arround horizontal level.

I have an Acratech that I am completely satisfied with.

I carry my 1227 in one hand while hiking. Yours would be a bit much for that, at least on a long hike. Strap it to the back of your backpack with bungie cords.

archivue
18-Oct-2006, 12:43
i have a 13xxx that is better than the old big gitzo aluminium that i used to have... but you should consider the basalt serie as well !

Brian Ellis
18-Oct-2006, 12:52
"By the way, how do you carry tripods? gitzo has a bag for the 13XX, but that is very expensive"

I have a Gitzo bag but I don't use it. It's very conspicuous, bright blue fabric and gray imitation leather trimming all around it, "Gitzo" in big letters on both sides. Even though most bag handlers and other airport thieves probably wouldn't know what a Gitzo is, they'd figure whatever it is it's probably expensive judging by the looks of the bag. So it stays home. By removing the head from the 1325 I can get it in a hard-shell suitcase so that's how the tripod travels by air. And I just throw it in the back seat of the car when travelling by car.

Daniel Geiger
18-Oct-2006, 13:12
I have a Gitzo 1228 4 section with a Linhof Profi2 for SLR, and a 1325 (3 section) with Arca B1 for my Arca F. VERY happy with both. I think the 1228 is a too small for the Arca, so usually just take the 1325 along anymore for both.

I do the hook trick to make the center of gravity go way down. The biggest problem is to get the Supertrecker handle in the hook. Once that's done, it's a rock.

One problem I had is with a short center column, where the top base plate separated from the tube. Noticed it when I tried to use the the Arca on an inverted column hanging upside down (for a nice group of Orobanche in southern France). Tried to superglue it back in, but superglue (cyano type) did not keep it in. Anything that works, other than buying a new short column?

For travel, I also separate head from legs, and there are no more problems after that. Re airport thefts, get insurance and stop worrying. Particularly for hobbyists like myself, it's supposed to be FUN, right? ;-) For walking around, I put it on the outside of a supertrecker, with a small padded bag over the head.

CXC
18-Oct-2006, 15:18
I see no need for a special case or handling of a cf tripod, unless you insist on slamming it around like Frank ;-).

I strap mine to the outside of my backpack. When flying, the 12xx fits in my clothes suitcase, the 13xx stays at home.

Don't rule out a pan head due to a bad experience with one that is not top quality. The Gitzo "low profile" pan heads (like the 1270M) are excellent and reliable for those of us who don't care to go the ballhead route. They are admittedly bulky to pack, but screw off in 15 seconds, and I personally find the handles sticking out make it easier and securer to strap to the pack.

Harley Goldman
18-Oct-2006, 15:43
I have a 1127 and 1325. I also have an old Gitzo aluminum. The old one weighs far, far more, but is less stable and does a far worse job absorbing vibration.

FWIW, I used to have an Acratech. I found that when my ARca was racked out, the Acratech had a significant amount of flex in it. A scary amount. I sold it and bought the REally Right STuff BH-55. It is a very solid, outstanding ballhead.

Frank Petronio
18-Oct-2006, 15:55
Based on people posting here and my extensive collection of gear catalogs in the downstairs bathroom, the ultimate 4x5 tripod is the Gitzo 1325 or 1349 CF with the RRS BH-55 Ball head. A good $1000 plus investment, especially if you count buying RRS plates for your cameras and maybe adding a leveling base or different column.

However, a $99 Tiltall does exactly the same thing, albeit a few seconds slower and without as much pride of ownership.

There are plenty of good options. We haven't even discussed nice wooden tripods yet ;)

Songyun
18-Oct-2006, 16:17
When I was searching for a ball head. I considered following ball heads
arca b1
RRS BH-55,
gang rin po che NB-1 (From China)

Because my local store doesn't have an RRS, so I don't know it very well. All I have seen so far is the Arca Swiss B1, and it is pretty nice. I don't want to buy something I have never seen it. How would you compare RRS and Arca?


I have a 1127 and 1325. I also have an old Gitzo aluminum. The old one weighs far, far more, but is less stable and does a far worse job absorbing vibration.

FWIW, I used to have an Acratech. I found that when my ARca was racked out, the Acratech had a significant amount of flex in it. A scary amount. I sold it and bought the REally Right STuff BH-55. It is a very solid, outstanding ballhead.

squiress
18-Oct-2006, 16:54
By the way, how do you carry tripods? gitzo has a bag for the 13XX, but that is very expensive.

And How about tripod heads? I tend to buy arca swiss B1, I have a pan tilt head bogen 3030, but the tilt part is not very smooth, especially arround horizontal level.

I was dubious of the Benro line until I saw their Arca B2 lookalike. It is very smooth and solid. I bought plates for all my cameras and I think they are even nicer than the Gitzo plates, and less expensive. The 128 is a lightweight (Gitzo 1128). The 328 is for my 8x10 and 4x5 (Gitzo 1328) Both come with cases and have enough room for heads.

I am not a professional so I am not going to be using these day in and day out. Service, if something breaks, might be difficult to get parts. Still, I see little difference after comparing these two to the similar Gitzos at the camera store downtown. I actually ordered one from LA and the other from Ontario Canada.

I'll report back if something breaks, but for now, I am smiling:D

Stew

Michael Daily
18-Oct-2006, 17:07
However, a $99 Tiltall does exactly the same thing, albeit a few seconds slower and without as much pride of ownership.

There are plenty of good options. We haven't even discussed nice wooden tripods yet ;)[/QUOTE]

I agree, I regularly use my antique Tiltall for 4x5 and have for over 30 years in many countries and situations. I sometimes use it for 5x7 Deardorff, but prefer my Giotto CF which weighs the same and is somewhat shorter. The Giotto is less than 1/2 the price of the Gitzo, which is the only reason I bought it. It is not quite as nice as the Gitzo, but at less than $300, I feel it was a good choice. Either fits in the ski slot of my Redwing backpack and carries easily. I like the CF for winter--it is not as dangerous to my hands.
Michael

Dirk Rösler
18-Oct-2006, 18:23
I just bought a Benro C-327 for around $250, about 40% of the Gitzo equivalent. It is very good indeed. I was recommended a Giottos head instead of the Benro heads, and when comparing them last week in Hong Kong, I am glad I went for the Giottos as it seems of higher quality.

If you can get a Benro at good price (probably at more than what I paid though if you have to buy through the "eBay resellers"), go for it. The newer ones have the anti-locking and all the Gitzos have. They are so similar to the Gitzos, even down to internal parts, that we are thinking they may not actually be illegitimate knockoffs rather than legit rebranded Gitzos for the Chinese domestic market (which is why you see most international sales are through eBay and very small stores, not the large retailers). There are many people who make a big hoo-haa about morals etc, but who knows what the real story behind this is.

Matus Kalisky
19-Oct-2006, 03:20
I am also one of the Benro owners - I have th M227 model (equivalent og Gitzo 1227)- with the anti-twisting featre. I payed about 40% of the Gitzo price (1227 is around 500 euro here ~ $630). I bought it ~ 8 moths ago via eBay from some Hong-Kong seller who was frank enough to say that the customer service is not very good. It came with a rather good bag which is long enough that I can just fit inside the tripod with Novolfex Magicball 50 attached.

It works nice for me, but I do have "fragile" feeleing out of it so I hande it with care. Well - if you try it - the anti-twisting legs are no that much anti twisting - I managed to twist one of them while lockin another joint (my mistake) - made un ugly sound, but turning it back the sound came again and it works OK. I also for the curiosituy took one leg-setion out - well the joints inside are all plastic and anti-twisting is done via a cca 1/2 mm deep and 3 mm wide trench (is this a correct word?) which runs from inside along the leg. I have never hadled a GItzo tripod but when I loose the joints on the Bero the legs are woblig a bit - but after you've tighten it again the keep straight.

When comapred to Gitzo - especially the central mettalic part is not done so robustly and the finish is not so perfect (but still beeing quite good). Let's see how it will work in a year or two - and as I am not using it daily - I hope it will last.

Anyhow - the wekest point of my setup now is the connection between the ballhead and the camera - as I do not have any quick-release system attached and the screw built inside the head can not be tightend enough just by fingers - so is is rather easy to "unscrew" the camera.

Jay W
19-Oct-2006, 05:21
I shot with a Crown and a Wisner on a Bogen 3001 for a couple of years, and had no problem with soft negatives. Since then I've moved to a 1227. Much of my shooting with the 3001 was in the woods and in good weather (light winds). With good technique and patience for still air, the tripod did it's job. OTOH, when I'm out west, it seems like like I'm often out in the open, and it's rare to find dead air. That's when a solid tripod, a center column hook, and a large jacket come in handy.

Jay

Ted Harris
19-Oct-2006, 05:47
Another Gitzo hater here. I have two of them in the studio and they seldom see any use. I just intensely dislike the way the legs work, hate the collars and what you have to go through if you need to disassemble them. I have become a very strong proponent of Linhof and other "U" channel tripods. The Linhof I use is no mpore expensive than the comperable Gitzo, weighs less and, IMHO sets up quicker and is more stable .... also much quicker to lock down.

Bob Salomon
19-Oct-2006, 06:24
For those of you who will be at the NY show the beginning of next month you might want to look t the new Giottos Lava series of tripods made from an organic material that is very light, very strong and costs less then carbon. We will show the first 3 of these there as well as prototypes of some new carbon and aluminum tripods from Giottos.

LADP
19-Oct-2006, 08:14
For those of you who will be at the NY show the beginning of next month you might want to look t the new Giottos Lava series of tripods made from an organic material that is very light, very strong and costs less then carbon. We will show the first 3 of these there as well as prototypes of some new carbon and aluminum tripods from Giottos.

Would the "organic material" be laminated bamboo or rattan by any chance?

Bob Salomon
19-Oct-2006, 09:00
No an igneous stone is the source from volcanos.

Kirk Keyes
19-Oct-2006, 09:15
igneous stone

Igneous stone is not "organic" in any sense of the word. But I bet you mean it is a resin impregnated with the stone to add stiffness?

Bob Salomon
19-Oct-2006, 10:14
It is a hard volcanic rock whose weight contains less then 52% silica. It contains pyroxene, olivine and feldspar as some of its most common ingredients. It is extracted, crushed and melted into a liquid at 1500°C in a 'feeder' furnace . The melted liquid is forced through a mechanism with a number of tiny orifices to create the continuous Lava fibre. Temperatures are precisely controlled throughout the whole process.
The long Lava fibers are then sent to the Pultrusion plant where the fibers are passed through a resin-impregnation bath and drawn through a shaping die to form a multi-layer tube of exceptional performance.
It can be completely recycled and remade into new material.

squiress
19-Oct-2006, 11:07
I would agree that what you have described is not organic in the biochemistry sense of the word. It certainly fits 'igneous'. What is the resin made from? Perhaps that's organic.

This sounds a lot like fiberglass in layman's terms. Is that what it really is?

Thanks

Stew

Bob Salomon
19-Oct-2006, 11:31
No idea what resin is used. Giottos just buys the tubes and makes tripods from them. They don't fabricate the material itself.

Kirk Keyes
19-Oct-2006, 12:26
No idea what resin is used. Giottos just buys the tubes and makes tripods from them. They don't fabricate the material itself.

Interesting - they should be pretty tough!

Eric Biggerstaff
19-Oct-2006, 12:51
Gitzo has been making these as well I believe.

Frank Petronio
19-Oct-2006, 13:45
I thought those organic tripods were made from Soylent Green myself.

Dirk Rösler
19-Oct-2006, 18:18
It can be completely recycled and remade into new material.

I suppose that statement would apply to almost anything, but that's the world of marketing (honestly no offense intended). :)

Martin Courtenay-Blake
9-Jan-2007, 15:12
It is a hard volcanic rock whose weight contains less then 52% silica. It contains pyroxene, olivine and feldspar as some of its most common ingredients. It is extracted, crushed and melted into a liquid at 1500°C in a 'feeder' furnace . The melted liquid is forced through a mechanism with a number of tiny orifices to create the continuous Lava fibre. Temperatures are precisely controlled throughout the whole process.

The rock in question is Basalt. It is a common igneous rock consisting typically of 45 - 55% silica, pyroxene, feldspar and varying amounts of olivine. It is commonly found all over the globe (see Giant's Causeway, Staffa, Deccan Traps etc). It is normally associated with soft (runny) lava outpourings and is therefore fairly consistent in it's makeup.

It has been used for the manufacture of very strong resin impregnated materials for many years but it's use has, until the past 10 years or so , been restricted to military applications. It is becoming a mainstream material for applications such as structural tubes and sheets as it has more strength than glassfibre and (as Bob has stated) is indeed less costly than carbon fibre.

I love the idea of my tripod being made of Lava...when the Manfrotto gives up think I'll get one.

Martin

Dave_B
9-Jan-2007, 19:57
Frank:
You know you're going to buy a CF Gitzo someday. We know you're going to buy a CF Gitzo someday. Why pretend otherwise? The more you talk about alternatives, the more clear it is to everyone that you have made up your mind. Nothing about your photography is second rate and you won't settle for a second rate tripod, even if you buy something else between now and when you finally get your CF Gitzo.
Cheers,
Dave B.

Capocheny
10-Jan-2007, 01:27
LOL... Carbon Fiber pods are for whimps!!! :)

Just kidding!

I use a Manfrotto 475 with a 405 head on it. All I can say about it is that it IS pretty darn heavy and is a photographer-weight-lifters' dream come true!

Having said that... I'll be in the market for either a CF or wooden pod in the very near future. The Berlebach pods are very tempting and far, far lighter than the 475. Right now... my biggest concern is how it would perform over the long term if it gets soaked in water for any length of time.

The Gitzo 1325 is also very tempting... US$500

Perhaps, I'll wait until Gitzo releases their Lava series before finalizing my decision. Lighter, stronger, and cost less... hmmmm! :)

Sonyun,

Think twice before you choose a ball-head.. unless it's one of the newer versions (I've been told about) where you can adjust movement on one axis without disturbing the setting on another axis. If it isn't one of these "new" versions... I wouldn't go the ball head route. But, this is just MY opinion. :)

Cheers