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Colin Myers
13-Oct-2006, 07:56
Hello,
I wonder if Ernest or one of our other experts on older lenses can shed some light on the above. They are an old type brass lens, with the inscribed name, followed by a su number suffix, typically 3, 4, 5 or 6. What type of lens are these and do the numbers have some relationship to format size or focal length?
Colin Myers

Ernest Purdum
13-Oct-2006, 09:41
Voigtlander made at least eight series of lenses with the Euryscop (also known as Euryscope) name. Each series differed in aperture and/or other characteristics from the others. Like "Raptar" or "Ektar", the name doesn't tell the whole story. Adjectives like "Portrait", "Extra Rapid" and "Wide Angle" were used to differentiate the series. My guess is that the first three series were Petzval types and series four through six probably Rapid Rectilinears (Aplanats). Series seven and the "supplementary series" were wide angle lenses, probably based on the Rapid Rectilinear design, dreastically modified for extra coverage, but with small maximum aperture.

You are right in thinking that the suffix numbers indicated the focal length, but unless you know which series you are dealing with, you only know that a higher number is longer than a lower number.

Sven Schroder
13-Oct-2006, 13:32
Hi Colin
Search ebay for Voigtlander/Darlot catalogue 1890, I 've got one on a CDR, don't have it with me but it has engravings of each lens series etc. If you have any particular lens post a pic and I'll dig out the CDR.
Thanks and regards
Sven

Jon Wilson
13-Oct-2006, 17:22
If it helps, I picked up a Voightlander & Sohn Euryscop No. 4 and it calculates (based on my tests) to be a 15 inch f5.6 barrel lens. I also have two Voightlander & Sohn #3 lens and they calculate to be 12 inch f5 barrel lens. Hope this helps shed some light.....;). I personally like the images these lens can produce. There are a couple of pictures linked in this apug classified I have listed. Hope they give you an idea at least as to what the #3 can produce.

http://www.apug.org/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=2547&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

JW

Colin Myers
14-Oct-2006, 00:28
Thanks Ernest, Sven and Jon. Very helpful advice. Sven, I did try your e-bay lead, but the no luck. If time permits, I would be grateful if you could perhaps fill in the gaps from your old catalogue.
Colin

Uli Mayer
14-Oct-2006, 01:33
According to Hartmut Thiele ("Datensammlung historischer Objektive") all Voigtländer Euryscope lenses from Series II to Series VII were of an 4 elements / 2 groups design.

Sven Schroder
14-Oct-2006, 04:50
Hi Colin

The Ebay seller doesn't have any items listed at the moment, which explains your search results, for future reference seller Id = u-mecking.
Right the catalogue starts with "-first series- Regular Portrait-lens" which looks like a regular petzval sizes marked as 3B to 7B.

The "second series Portrait Euryscope, short focus. ratio 1 to 4 or F4" these are RR's/aplanat's and size marked 3 to 7.

The "Third series Portrait Euryscope Longer focus ratio, F 4.5 again RR ".

The "Fourth Series Extra Rapid Euyscope size marked from 0 to 9 and max ap of F6" I have number 5 and the barrel is marked IV.

The " Fifth Series Rapid Wide-Angle Euryscope F6 Angle 80 degrees, size marked 0 to 5 with special Jena Glass.

The " Sixth series Rapid Euryscope F7 angle 60/70 degrees size marked 0A to 7A".

The "Seventh series Wide angle Euryscope, size marked 0 to 8 no F stop given or angle of coverage."

Also New Quick working Wide angle single landscape lens made with special glass size marked 0 to 10

From the illustrations wide angle euryscope are marked as such on the barrel but not all series Six are, I know series four are marked IV.The first series appears to be the only Petzval in fact they stress the portrait Euryscope's cemented construction.
Hope this helps
Thanks and Regards
Sven

Colin Myers
15-Oct-2006, 05:01
Sven,
Thanks for taking the trouble to compile and send your very comprehensive reply, really interesting and much appreciated
Colin

renes
16-Oct-2010, 16:16
Do someone know the focal lenght, lens formula and how fast is "Voigtlander Euryscop 00" ?

CCHarrison
16-Oct-2010, 17:51
try http://www.antiquecameras.net/1890lenscatalogue.html

Dan

goamules
16-Oct-2010, 18:16
Do someone know the focal lenght, lens formula and how fast is "Voigtlander Euryscop 00" ?

It's very hard to tell. At first, these Voigtlander rapid rectilinears did not use the Euryscop name, but they were RRs. Then when they were marked with that moniker, the series number sometimes changed. It's not easy to be sure, until you measure one in your hands.

hackphotographer
31-Jan-2011, 15:33
I would like to resurrect this thread in hope of getting some help...and value of a lens which has come in to my possession. A client has asked me to liquidate many items for him and I have a Voigtlaender Portrait Euryscope brass lens which reads, "Portrait Euryscopoe Series III No.6" and has serial number 59062 written on the barrel.

It then says, "The Voigtlaender and Son Optical Co New York"

Am I correct in saying that this lens was from 1890.

Louis Pacilla
31-Jan-2011, 16:08
Hi There

I would venture to place the date around the end of that Century 1899 ish. It should be some where around 16" & max of f4.5 . It's a fast rapid rectilinear . It has a very nice feel a bit like a Petzval but not the same look. Corrected better than a petzval but not over corrected like a anastigmat. The # 6 was to cover 11x14 plate.

hackphotographer
1-Feb-2011, 07:54
Thank you so much for your insights Louis. Do you have any estimate at what the lens is worth?

Fred Heming
9-Feb-2011, 22:39
Can someone tell which series is this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Voigtlander-Euryscop-7-Very-Large-Brass-Portrait-Lens-/400193542707?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item5d2d64da33

cannot believe it covers 18x22 for the size of the lens and the relatively low number.

Thanks in advance for parting knowledge.

Louis Pacilla
9-Feb-2011, 22:45
This is the series IV f6 RR. a #7 is 24 ish" covers 18x22 @f6 & 20x24 w/ small stop.




Can someone tell which series is this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Voigtlander-Euryscop-7-Very-Large-Brass-Portrait-Lens-/400193542707?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item5d2d64da33

cannot believe it covers 18x22 for the size of the lens and the relatively low number.

Thanks in advance for parting knowledge.

Fred Heming
9-Feb-2011, 22:54
Thanks a lot Louis.

tuant
11-Feb-2011, 08:58
This is the series IV f6 RR. a #7 is 24 ish" covers 18x22 @f6 & 20x24 w/ small stop.

Hi Louis,

How can you determine that this is a IV #7? I have a IV 7 and it has IV marked right above #7. Can't imagin if it were IV #7, why would IV be omitted. Can this be an earlier version? Having said that, it does look like my lens.

Tuant

Tim Deming
11-Feb-2011, 09:28
The early series IV euryscopes were not marked with series #, Louis is correct. You can mainly tell by the construction, but also the number (e.g. 5 vs. 5A or 5B). Also, the Series IV, in my experience, is most common of all the Euryscopes. It was the first "non-portrait" euryscope (The lower series were the Portait lenses).

cheers

Tim

tuant
11-Feb-2011, 09:41
The early series IV euryscopes were not marked with series #, Louis is correct. You can mainly tell by the construction, but also the number (e.g. 5 vs. 5A or 5B). Also, the Series IV, in my experience, is most common of all the Euryscopes. It was the first "non-portrait" euryscope (The lower series were the Portait lenses).

cheers

Tim

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the answer! I know Louis knows a thing or two about lenses:-) It is a nice lens, not too heavy and a pleasure to use.

Tuant

tuant
11-Feb-2011, 09:45
Just curious to see has any one seen a 8 or 9? I have made a public pledge that if I find a 9, I would make a 40x50 box camera just for that lens. Please don't let me find it:-)

Tuant

Emil Schildt
11-Feb-2011, 15:17
Just curious to see has any one seen a 8 or 9? I have made a public pledge that if I find a 9, I would make a 40x50 box camera just for that lens. Please don't let me find it:-)

Tuant

Iv'e seen the #9....

I was offered the "9....

And I didn't buy it......:confused:

It was sitting in a store in Pragh - HUGE, I mean HUGE!! - but surprisingly light weight.
Not made of brass. A matt light grey metal compound.

I thought (as nobody I knew back then knew anything..) I'd leave it in the shop, and see whether it was still there when I returned half a year later..
If so, it would have been a sign from above..

But no sign - no lens.... alas.

Price (which I considered too high), was about 1000$ :o

tuant
11-Feb-2011, 15:41
But no sign - no lens.... alas.

Price (which I considered too high), was about 1000$ :o[/QUOTE]

Aha, this is like the first confirmed UFO sighting for me:) To cover 40X50, it will have to be big, very very big! I have never heard of another person seeing one except you. If you find one, please let me know, I will certainly buy you a few beer for that:-) And no kidding, I will build a WP camera for it. I will use a basketball to rock collodion. And my silver bath box will probably weigh over 200lb by itself:-)

Tuant

Tim Deming
12-Feb-2011, 10:44
I have not seen an 8 or 9. You will definitely need a very big camera for those! The #7, which is fairly common (I have one at least, and have seen many more) still requires a 9" lens board.

Just as a curiosity, it seems many more of the odd numbered Euryscope IVs are around compared to even # ones. The #3 and #5 are pretty common, but I havent seen many #2 or #6. The smaller ones seem to be even rarer, I have a #00 (great lens for 5x7!), and it's the only one I've ever seen.

Also, still looking for the 60cm heliar...

cheers

Tim

RobertSzabo
26-Mar-2012, 11:59
I recently acquired this Voightlander lens. Can someone tell me what it is? It only has a 7 on it. It does not say Euroscope. BF its about 26 inches.

It is way larger than any other RR Ive seen even for a 20x24 plate. I had a Dallmeyer RR that covered 16x18 an it was half the size of this lens. I have an Emil Busch 8x10 RR that is not much bigger than a 35mm film can.

Ive have had some people tell me its a Petzval and other say RR. If it is an RR why is it so big?

I recently gave my 18x22 camera to a friend and the largest I have right now is an 11x14. I put this lens on my 11x14 and it looks pretty good. Very little depth of field wide open and its really bright. I will shoot in on 11x14 soon.

I was told by Milan Z. that the early Voightlander lenses had air spaced elements in the rear like a Petzval and Voightlander changed the designed later with cemented elements. I cant get the rear pair out to check it.

This would correspond the early post by Sven "Right the catalogue starts with "-first series- Regular Portrait-lens" which looks like a regular petzval sizes marked as 3B to 7B. The "second series Portrait Euryscope, short focus. ratio 1 to 4 or F4" these are RR's/aplanat's and size marked 3 to 7. "

Still not sure what I have here other than is not a B and does not say Euroscope.

Any info on this lens would be appreciated.

Thanks!

70881

vitality
27-Mar-2012, 00:27
It's "pre-Euryscop", they started to engrave Euryscop later.
Maybe Euryscop IV series No.7? How big is lens? No.7 is approx. 20cm tall, glass element diameter ~10cm.

Steven Tribe
27-Mar-2012, 00:58
+1!
The serial number confirms it was made during the period when Voigtländer was experimenting like mad with various types of Rapid Aplanats and Extra Rapid Aplanats. This is before they settled on their later series marked with a roman series number and Euryskop.
I think it is a little too early to be a pre-series IV.
Most of these large "no-name Euryskops" turn out to be around F7 with qwuite huge coverage. Why they made so many of this type - and for what purpose, remains a mystery - at least to me.

I personally believe the postulate about air spaced rear cells in an Aplanat design is an old misunderstanding from just one contemporary " optics savant" which has been repeated in books etc. ever since. I don't believe the Ebay clearing out of forgotten lenses has produced any of these "air spaced" Aplanats?

There is a thread here which shows a lot of these pre-Euryskop types and serial numbers.

vitality
27-Mar-2012, 07:47
Most of these large "no-name Euryskops" turn out to be around F7 with qwuite huge coverage.
If I understand (calculate) correctly, Euryscop Series IV lenses doesn't have exact F/6, but vary from F/5 to F/7 (depending on the number, e.g. No5 is F/5,6)?

Steven Tribe
27-Mar-2012, 08:26
No! All series IV are F6. At least are listed as F6.
However looking at the catalogue from 1890, I suddenly have my doubts. No. 9 has a focal length of 46" (lens diameter 6.5") and no. 7 has focal length of 24.5" (quite near the above lens) and a lens diameter of 4 1/8". So no.9 is certainly not an F6 and neither is no. 7!

Jim Galli
27-Mar-2012, 08:31
No! All series IV are F6. At least are listed as F6.
However looking at the catalogue from 1890, I suddenly have my doubts. No. 9 has a focal length of 46" (lens diameter 6.5") and no. 7 has focal length of 24.5" (quite near the above lens) and a lens diameter of 4 1/8". So no.9 is certainly not an F6 and neither is no. 7!

Seem to recall reading in the VM that it was more like f6.2 and could vary a bit. Also the later Series IVa catalogued in USA after the new century, 1905 - ish were f7. These had apertures and did not look the same as the classic Series IV from 1870's with the steep flute to the shield.

vitality
27-Mar-2012, 08:43
However looking at the catalogue from 1890, I suddenly have my doubts.
From that catalog comes following numbers:
No.3 - 11 1/2" / 2 1/6" = F5.3
No.5 - 17 1/2" / 3 1/8" = F5.6
...


Also the later Series IVa catalogued in USA after the new century, 1905 - ish were f7.
One of them was sold few days ago: 251021761715

Steven Tribe
27-Mar-2012, 08:54
But the mount for the waterhouse stops will reduce the F value slightly.
My no.2 has 5.6 marked on the largest Waterhouse stop and is only a fraction of a mm is proud of the internal ring mount.

Jim Galli
27-Mar-2012, 08:56
Maybe that's why I love what I get from my #3 wide open. I always shoot it wide open. Also, someone has coated the one I have, so it began life with exceptional contrast qualities and the coatings made it even better.


From that catalog comes following numbers:
No.3 - 11 1/2" / 2 1/6" = F5.3
No.5 - 17 1/2" / 3 1/8" = F5.6
...


One of them was sold few days ago: 251021761715

vitality
27-Mar-2012, 09:00
But the mount for the waterhouse stops will reduce the F value slightly.
My no.2 has 5.6 marked on the largest Waterhouse stop and is only a fraction of a mm is proud of the internal ring mount.
That's true, I completely forgot about internal "wall" for waterhouse stops...

Amedeus
14-Aug-2012, 00:23
I understand this is an old thread but Google got me here :)

I received a rather small black painted lens few days ago. After cleaning the glass up I noticed it looked really good so I got curious of what was under all the black paint. I stripped the paint off today and the inscription reads:

Rapid Weitwinkel Euryscop V No 00
Voigtlander & Sohn, Braunsweig

Serial number is 36923

From the 1890 Benjamin French catalog I know this refers to the Rapid Wide Angle Euryscop V and the 00 is an 8" lens so F6-isch with a 1 1/4 inch lens. My lens has a WH slot and that mount is also 1 1/4".

Not sure where this serial number would place my lens time wise ... anyone any idea ? Is there a list with Voigtlander lens serial numbers and time of production ? Anyone any experience with this particular series ? Need to make a retaining ring and put on a Speed Graphic lens board ....

Thanks in advance for any info,

Best.

Steven Tribe
14-Aug-2012, 00:51
1889!
So exactly the same period as the Benjamin French catalogue.
00 covers 8x10 and is described as medium wide angled type (75-80 degrees). Was made both with Waterhouse stops or an iris.
VM has a serial date list. Numbers/dates before around 33,000 is more than a little uncertain!

Amedeus
14-Aug-2012, 01:08
Thanks Steven, much appreciated.

Best,

jack cotter
16-Dec-2012, 17:42
Hi Good People,
i have a Portrait Euryscope Series III 6 F4.5, Voigtlaender & Son Optical Co. New York. This lens has No. 59515 on it. Does anyone have any history information/value information? Thank You in advance.

jack cotter
16-Dec-2012, 18:09
I would like to resurrect this thread in hope of getting some help...and value of a lens which has come in to my possession. A client has asked me to liquidate many items for him and I have a Voigtlaender Portrait Euryscope brass lens which reads, "Portrait Euryscopoe Series III No.6" and has serial number 59062 written on the barrel.

It then says, "The Voigtlaender and Son Optical Co New York"

Am I correct in saying that this lens was from 1890.

not sure, but i have one serial number 59515. have you found anything? -jack cotter

Steven Tribe
17-Dec-2012, 01:46
You have a "serial number" that was donated to the American Voigtländer organisation by the bosses in Braunschweig.
The american company used these numbers in a rather random way, so it is impossible to put an exact date on it.
Engraving style is also slightly different from the German-made lenses.
In series III, the German lenses were engraved 1A, .......6A ..... 8A. But a later series from around 1905 had different sizes.
If it is a "6A" , then the diameter of the front glass is 3 1/2" - focal length 13" covers 11x14"
If it is the 6th lens in the 2nd series, it will be 79mm front glass, focal length 35mm and the medium "Cabinet" size.

Value depends on condition (glass condition, mostly) - there have been enough sales on ebay (series II, III and IV) for you to find a value.

Value increases with focal length/size, with II highest and series IV lowest.
This would have been used in a Professional Portrait Studio in the first decades of its life - they were in every small town!

jesse
1-Mar-2015, 00:42
I just purchased this lens from my friend, Weitwinkel - Euryscop VII, No. 3
My friend said that it is a Protar design, f11.3, but using the name of Euryscop, anyone can give me more information about it.
130070130071

Steven Tribe
1-Mar-2015, 01:40
This is a design from before "the new glass" era, that is 1890 - so it is basically a RR. A "generation" before the anastigmatic designs of the Dagor and Protar! Voigtländer did make Protars under licence - but these are clearly marked as such.

Size 3 is 7 1/3" focal length, covers 93 degrees and was made for 8x10. They produced a number of other wide angled designs (series VIII and without series numbers) at the time. It is sometimes confused with a much later series VIIa . F.18 which is much more uncommon.

jesse
1-Mar-2015, 06:57
This is a design from before "the new glass" era, that is 1890 - so it is basically a RR. A "generation" before the anastigmatic designs of the Dagor and Protar! Voigtländer did make Protars under licence - but these are clearly marked as such.

Size 3 is 7 1/3" focal length, covers 93 degrees and was made for 8x10. They produced a number of other wide angled designs (series VIII and without series numbers) at the time. It is sometimes confused with a much later series VIIa . F.18 which is much more uncommon.

Thanks Steven

goamules
1-Mar-2015, 07:04
They are very nice lenses. I've got a No. 2, this shot on 5x7:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4067/4534836567_a1ca3634d4_o.png

jesse
1-Mar-2015, 11:45
Just sharing my friend's Voigtlander Petzval, a legend serial #10000
130088

Steven Tribe
1-Mar-2015, 12:19
Apart from the serial number. this lens weighs 14.3 kilos, has 6 inch glass, is 47cm in length, and was sold for 15,000 euros at a European auction some time in the past!

8x10 user
1-Mar-2015, 13:00
After buyers premium that was roughly 30,000 USD. I know of the buyer.

sunhouwang
16-May-2015, 20:06
hi,folks.
i just bought a euryscop III 6A lens from ebay.
the lens serial number is 32638, seems made in 1887, but one thing strange need to confirm as below description.
1.the figure on the lens body marked "6A(first line) Portrait Euryscop(second line)", no "III" marking,
2.both of front and rear inner edge of glass marked "6B"

so i'd like to know that is is a real euryscop III 6A lens, and what is the meaning of 6B on the inner edge.

thanks.
133949
133950
133951

Bill_1856
16-May-2015, 20:18
What an interesting thread! Who would ever think that it would run 50 posts? A great example of the usefulness of this forum.

Tim Deming
16-May-2015, 21:26
so i'd like to know that is is a real euryscop III 6A lens, and what is the meaning of 6B on the inner edge

6B was the normal designation for the petzval lens of the same glass diameter.
This should be easy to check: is your real element 1 piece or 2 separate elements? 1 cemented lens in back is the euryskop.

However, exceptions are the rule for early voigtlander lenses, so it's possible they just mismarked it, or marked it differently than others. Also, without the III marking, this could also be a portrait euryskop series II. You'll have to estimate the focal length to tell the difference ( f4.5 vs. f4.0)

Tim

Steven Tribe
17-May-2015, 01:05
This is very interesting lens, which is obviously genuine. It could be a very early version, before the series III found its standard engraving. Or, as Tim mentioned, a Petzval 6B in a plain barrel. The Petzval has a focal length of 12" and covers just full plate, whist the 6A series III has afocal length of 15.33" and covers more than 11x12". The front and rear cells on the Eurooskop III are identical.

The serial number points to this being an intermediate engraving design. It was about this time that anon. Euroskops began to be engraved with more detail about them. The only identification had been a arabic or roman numeral at one edge of the barrel.

brandon13
17-May-2015, 12:52
This is really interesting. I just took my 7a series III apart. lens numbers match. Our lenses are only 2 years apart. Test the focal length and glass diameter. It should make great images.

Tim Deming
17-May-2015, 21:25
This is really interesting. I just took my 7a series III apart. lens numbers match. Our lenses are only 2 years apart. Test the focal length and glass diameter. It should make great images.

Ditto. The cells in my series III 3A have the "3A" marking on them. Note that voigtlander was beginng to make many of their components interchangable around this time (exchangable flanges, same sized lens element housings ,etc) so switching parts between different voigtlander lenses was certainly possible

Tim