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View Full Version : THE death of Agfa Classic; What Paper do you use?



MarshallS
4-Oct-2006, 13:38
I'm hurtin.

I've been using the neutral Oriental for a bit now and it's very nice but I find myself dying for that familiar hint of warmth and richness. I know ilford released the "warmtone" developer and I'm thinking of playing with it.

That said, what paper do you guys use and have any die hard agfa classic fans found something acceptable to fill its place?

Christopher Perez
4-Oct-2006, 13:40
I needed to find a replacement for Kodak's PolyMax FineArt. After using Oriental and Ilford for a year I have settled on Forte' Polygrade. It's amazing stuff.

Brian K
4-Oct-2006, 13:48
Chris I tried Forte and had 2 big problems with it. First there was a serious piss yellow tint to it when it came out of fixer. So bad that it was impossible to evaluate test prints until they were well washed, for like a half hour. The second problem was an uneveness to the semi gloss (kodak f type) surface. Have you had these problems?

Arne Croell
4-Oct-2006, 14:18
Chris I tried Forte and had 2 big problems with it. First there was a serious piss yellow tint to it when it came out of fixer. So bad that it was impossible to evaluate test prints until they were well washed, for like a half hour. The second problem was an uneveness to the semi gloss (kodak f type) surface. Have you had these problems?
I haven't used Forte in many years, but a similar gloss problem occurred with Agfa's Record rapid aka Insignia for a while. This could be cured by "steaming" the print, i.e. move for the surface into the steam over a pot or tea kettle with boiling water for a few seconds. Might be worth a try.

reellis67
4-Oct-2006, 14:46
If you are looking for a warmer tone, try the Ilford MGWT paper. You can also try a warmtone developer, split sepia toning, or fully selenium toning either warmtone paper or neutral paper. I know that many people prefer to stick to one routine, but I use a number of different developer and toner combinations to get what I am looking for with any given print. Right now I am printing on Ilford papers (MGIV and MGWT) but I am also testing the response of a couple of other papers just to see what they can provide.

- Randy

Christopher Perez
4-Oct-2006, 15:12
This is interesting. I have experienced neither of these issues. In fact, the gloss is better than what I've found with recent Ilford.

What developer did you use? (regarding the yellow piss)


Chris I tried Forte and had 2 big problems with it. First there was a serious piss yellow tint to it when it came out of fixer. So bad that it was impossible to evaluate test prints until they were well washed, for like a half hour. The second problem was an uneveness to the semi gloss (kodak f type) surface. Have you had these problems?

Andrew O'Neill
4-Oct-2006, 20:42
I needed to find a replacement for Kodak's PolyMax FineArt. After using Oriental and Ilford for a year I have settled on Forte' Polygrade. It's amazing stuff.

Couldn't agree with you more, Christopher. I've been using it for years.


Chris I tried Forte and had 2 big problems with it. First there was a serious piss yellow tint to it when it came out of fixer. So bad that it was impossible to evaluate test prints until they were well washed, for like a half hour. The second problem was an uneveness to the semi gloss (kodak f type) surface. Have you had these problems?

What?? Yes, there is a slight yellow tint, but it was always gone after first fix. Uneven gloss?? Again, I find this strange. I've been using this paper for almost 10 years with never any problems. This is one fine paper that responds beautifully to different developers and tones wonderfully. For my last 3 shows I used this paper exclusively.

Andrew O'Neill
4-Oct-2006, 20:46
What developer did you use? (regarding the yellow piss)

I know this is directed towards Brian but...I can't help myself. I've used just about everything, finally settling on Ilford MG developer. Sometimes I use a pyro developer, Dectol, Caffinol (instant coffee and washing soda)...for warmer tones.

Andrew O'Neill
4-Oct-2006, 20:48
I know ilford released the "warmtone" developer and I'm thinking of playing with it.

SKPhoto, tell me more about this developer...I've never heard of it.

Andrew O'Neill
4-Oct-2006, 20:50
By the way SkPhoto, what does "FU64 is for the children", mean? Just curious...

MarshallS
5-Oct-2006, 12:34
FU64 is a group of young fine art photographers working in large format traditional process, I'm sure I'll post about it when one of us or the group shows.


As far as the ilford warmtone developer I just picked up a bottle from adorama and am planning on using it in the next couple weeks with Oriental, Forte Polygrade and hopefull some adox. I'll post my thoughts on it and maybe an example at what I could pull off.

Scott Whitford
5-Oct-2006, 16:47
SKphoto, I feel your pain. MC111 dev'd in Ansco 130 is/was my favorite combo for many subjects. Awesome color and richness without any toning. Perfect.

Actually, Freestyle still has the paper in stock in several sizes. If you're finishing up a project or something, you should be able to pick up enough to finish it. But when it's gone, it's GONE <sniff!>

My new favorite combo is Forte Fortezo in Ansco 130. It's warmer than MC111 straight out of the developer, but this paper is incredibly flexible. A wide range of tones is available with different developers and toners. A quick splash in very dilute KRST (1+30 or greater) will remove any green cast and cool the image slightly, bringing it very close to untoned MC111 as it looks out of Ansco 130. Alternatively, a cold tone developer such as Burki & Jenny can bring it VERY close to the look of MC111 without toning by tweaking the amount of benzo in the developer.

It is a graded paper, but I can't imagine a negative that I couldn't pull an acceptable print from using either Gr 2 or 3 (so you only need to stock two grades). The tonal range is amazing, especially the Gr 2. The only paper that comes close in tonal range in my opinion is/was Gr 2 Azo.

Another surpising paper I've found similar to the slightly warm, rich look of MC111 is Arista Classic. Another graded paper, and I believe also discontinued although still available in some sizes from Freestyle. I'd always heard that this paper was repackaged Gallerie, but it seems a tad warmer than the current Gallerie to my eye. The base is very slightly cream colored (as is MC111 if compared to something like Ilford MGIV or Gallerie) but not objectionably so. It also works wonderfully in Ansco 130.

Scott

MarshallS
5-Oct-2006, 20:05
Yeah I was attempting to get some from JandC the other day and no luck, I may just scratch that and give your forte combo a try, thanks for the input Scott

Andrew O'Neill
6-Oct-2006, 07:57
Neat. Looking forward to seeing FU64's work. I'm 1/6th of the Vancouver 6.