Upgrade from Epson 850 to ?????????????

[squiress]

I have an Epson Photo Stylus 850 that I would like to upgrade from for the following reasons- 1) seperate ink color cartriges, 2) larger than 8xXX prints. I also am interested in knowing if the inks used in this printer are durable over time. I have compared the output of this printer with an R2400 and thought it better (the 850).

While economy is good, I am really looking for something that would allow me to print 13" panoramas and 11x14 prints. It would need to handle periods of non use for up to a couple of weeks without clogging either heads or ink cartriges. Mechanical durability also important.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Stew

[Walter Calahan]

Epson 3800 when it arrives soon.

[squiress]

From what I've read it doesn't allow for roll feed. The 13" panorama would be 13" high by 33" wide. Any clarification on whether it will print that length of paper?

Thanks

Stew

[Jon Shiu]

Supposed to print up to 17x37 according to inkjetart.com

Jon

[Brian Ellis]

Depends of course on what you want to pay. An Epson 2200 will print 13" wide and will take roll paper so it will do what you want to do. They should be available very inexpensively either refurbished or used. Ditto the 2400 though it will cost a little more. Or still more expensive, the Epson 4800. While the 3800 is appealing, I'm really excited about what HP is doing with its new line of pro printers. If they work as advertised they should be very popular among serious photographers since they print as large as Epson's for less money and the Z series is self-profiling.

Unless you're in a major rush I think I'd wait at least three months for the dust to settle on all these new printers when more of the older but still excellent printers start appearing on the used market and when we should have some user reviews of the new printers to start appearing. This wouldn't be the first time we've gotten excited about the promos for new printers, only to find that they didn't work as advertised or that there were downsides not mentioned in the promo materials. But in other forums I've read that the prints displayed in the Epson and HP booths at Photokina were stunning.

[Greg Miller]

Things to conisider in the Epson line:

1) 2400 & 4800 are the same price when you factor in the ink (the 4800 comes with a full set of 110 ml ink cartidges - calculate what that amount of ink would cost if buying same amount of ink of 2400 cartidges)(my guess is 3800 will probably fall somewhere in the middle)

2) 4800 is cheaper to own over time (if you print only matte or only glossy) because ink cost per ml is much lower

3) 4800 cannot print on paper small than 8 1/2 x 11 (or 8 x 10 - I foget which).

4) 3800 will waste significantly less ink than 4800 when switching from matte to photo black (or vice versa).

5) 3800 will not handle roll paper

6) 4800 has closed loop color management. So you can use stock profiles. 2400 does not have this so you will likely have to make custom prifiles for every paper. I'm not sure about the 3800.


You'll have to decide on right price / feature mix for your personal needs.

[Rider]

Things to conisider in the Epson line:

1) 2400 & 4800 are the same price when you factor in the ink (the 4800 comes with a full set of 110 ml ink cartidges - calculate what that amount of ink would cost if buying same amount of ink of 2400 cartidges)(my guess is 3800 will probably fall somewhere in the middle)




Not so sure about that. When I got my Epson 4000, more than half of the ink in the 110ml was used up during the original priming of the printer.

[Greg Miller]

Not so sure about that. When I got my Epson 4000, more than half of the ink in the 110ml was used up during the original priming of the printer.

The ink for the most part is just in the delivery system, it is not wasted or "used". It will be used for prints. It does mean that you will have to but your next cartidge earlier but averages out over several cartidge changes and it becomes a miniscule point. Add this to the vastly cheaper ink costs of the 4800 compared to the 2400 and its a neglible point.

[squiress]

Thanks to all for comments. The 3800 if it truly gets out to 37 inch length will probably be fine for all that I would do. The 80ml ink cartriges compared to the 110 of the 4800 have the same order of magnitude kind of gains over the 2400 and the fact that I wouldn't have to change out blacks is really nice. I shall wait out the 3800's arrival and save some pennies in prep to purchase.

Stew

[squiress]

I revisited the decision to wait for the 3800 and its $1300 price tag. While I think the larger reservoirs of ink would be a huge benefit, I really needed to consider that I will not be printing on this thing every day in any sort of production mode. That said I relooked at commentary on the R1800 and made the decision to spend $500 for one of those. Should have it next Tuesday. It does come with a roll adaptor and meets all my size requirements without wondering what exactly is being said in the literature. Most important for me was the size issue and the seperate ink cartridges for each color. As well it carries both matte and glossy black inks.

What I have read is that it is thirsty, even for cartridges not used (like the matte black if you print only color glossy). One reviewer noted that the printer uses a lot of ink on head cleaning when powered up. He just leaves it on and does a nozzle check each day to keep things fresh. This is the approach I will take.

Have a roll of 13"x33' Epson paper and some panoramas ready to print. Can't wait.

Stew

[squiress]

Just to close the loop I received my R1800 yesterday. I also received a box of Epson Enhanced Matte 13x19 paper (previously called Matte Archival). I like a number of things about this printer right out of the box, but was dissappointed that they included a firewire cable but no USB cable. Not an issue because I have lots of those anyway.

One of the things I really like is the that input and output trays fold into the printer, closing it up pretty much into a long rectangular box that sits nicely on a spare space in my basement workarea, keeping the insides dust free. It unfolds nicely and is quickly ready to print. I had a couple of pictures from a recent trip to Glacier NP and the Canadian Rockies that I was excited to see at 13x19 so after loading the ink cartridges and the very complete set of software, I chose the easy route and used their easy print software and profiles for the Enhanced Matte paper and pushed print. (I did do one check nozzle print on normal 8.5x11 paper to make sure all heads were printing - they were.) This thing is pretty fast. Certainly faster than my 870 for a print that is four times larger. I would say the R1800 printed the 13x19 in one half the time it takes my 870 to do a 8x10.

I choose borderless and it did a great job. What did show up was a spot about a quarter inch in diameter on the sky. It kinda looked like an oil spot. Turns out it was a dust particle on the lens that I didn't notice on smaller pictures. I found it on others as well. Photoshop has a spot removal tool that worked very nicely on the sky background and print two was perfect. The second picture had the same spot so I removed that as well and now have two pictures that I need to get matted and framed.

When you print, it shows the cartridge ink levels. After three of the 13x19 prints I didn't see any movement in the cartridge levels so I can't wait to see how many of these this will print (if 400 is the norm for the cartridges at 8.5x11, then that number at 13x19 ought to be around 100). I will load the roll feed parts tonight and get the 13'x32' glossy paper on board for some large panoramas that I have been wanting to get on paper.

As an aside, I ordered some backup ink cartridges for this thing (Epson OEM) and was amazed at the price differences online. I found Buy.com to have the best prices for the T054X cartridges at an average of $12.12 per cartridge with free shipping. I ordered two of each and will see how colors are used as I print these mostly nature/landscape pics.

For me this was the right choice. By not getting the 3800 I probably lost out on 16x20 prints from my basement, as well as the 80ml ink reservoirs that would have been six times bigger than the R1800 13ml cartridges, but at the same time the panorama capability will handle that "large print" desire for now (and still not sure that the 3800 will do those large panoramas), and I just won't be printing all that many prints.

Finally, I left it powered on and will continue to do so to prevent a head cleaning on powerup that I suspect from what I've read, will quickly deplete the cartridges of ink. Bought this from Amazon.com for $491 with free shipping.

Thanks again for all your comments.

Stew

[Greg Miller]

You might want to reconsider leaving the printer powered on. I'm assuming this model does nto auto cap the print head after being idle for a period. If the power is on and the print head is not capped, then ink will dry and clog the nozzles. If you leave the power on and do not print for a long time, then you may find the nozzles permanently clogged (with the only options being a costly repair or replacing the printer) .

Turning the power off will cap the print head and go a long way towards preventing nozzle clogs. Most likely you will find that turning the power off is the cheapest way to go.

[squiress]

Don't plan to go without at least doing a nozzle check daily and printing a picture at least every couple of days to a week. I expect that as long as I make some use of the heads regularly that I will not experience the clogging issues. Any nozzle check that fails to perfectly print first off probably indicates too long a period of non-use. After making a number of prints since this arrived and having lots more to make, I think that by spacing them out things should be fine. This does kind of follow what one reviewer posted.

Also, after eight borderless 13x19s on Enhanced Matte paper and one 13x32 panorama on Premium Glossy paper Cyan is down by about a quarter, Magenta down by an eighth, Matte Black by a hair and Yellow down by a hair. None of the others have moved. Images remain absolutely wonderful to look upon. The panorama firmware rolls the paper out when printing is complete and places a cut line about 1/2-3/4" from the edge of the picture. After you make the cut with a paper trimmer the firmware rolls the paper back in for the next print. Pretty neat.

Thanks for the comment.

Stew

[squiress]

I've printed about twenty 13x19s at this point and a few 8.5x11s, mostly on matte paper. The cyan ink is taking the biggest hit, followed by magenta and then yellow and matte black. The only other cartridge to give indication of use is the blue. These are all landscapes or nature shots, some light with sky and some grotto-ish. Last night my R1800 told me that I could print 7 more 13x19s before I would have to change an ink cartridge out (I presume cyan). That would give me a total of about 30 13x19s from the first round of ink (defined as needing to begin changing cartridges). With a full set costing about $100 and paper at $1 per sheet for 13x19 Enhanced Matte, $130 for 30 prints makes for $4.33 per print for consumables. That ain't half bad as far as expectations go. I will have these double matted and dry mounted in archival mattes and then framed behind 95% UV protected anti-glare glass for another $86. Finished and hung on the wall for under a $100 per print. I'm liking this more and more.:D

No issues at all yet with leaving the printer on for at least a day and a half before running a nozzel check. Every check print is perfect.:)

Stew

[squiress]

Another interesting thing about this printer (R1800) and ink usage. If you wait longer than 24-30 hours to do a nozzle check, the printer goes through a head cleaning anyway, with its attendant visible reduction in ink supply. It has done this to me twice now when I go 36 hours between nozzle checks. So there's a clock running in there somewhere that is doing its best to protect the print head from ink drying damage. Just got my first replace cartridge notice on the Cyan. Like that the printer gives me the option to print till it runs out or replace. This continues to be a great choice for me. Dropped off twenty pics to be dry mounted, matted and framed yesterday. Got lots of blank wall space at the office. Can't wait to see these on the wall.

Stew