I'm ready to start from scratch... a new film

[brian steinberger]

I've been trying different emulsions and different developers and trying to run tests for the past year. And then I'll get on here and read about a different film that gets good reviews and then I'll start over and try that film.

So it's time to quit this non sense and start from scrath. This is where I'm at. I've tried Tmax, FP4, HP5, Delta 100, 400, and Fomapan 200, in various developers. I'm ready to start from scratch. I want to pick one film and one developer and stick with it through all testing for at least a while ( two years or so).

I shoot 4x5, and mostly landscape, rustic architecture, and industrial photography. I'm debating between Delta 100 and Fuji Acros 100. I don't mind paying more for the quickloads. I liked the Tmax but don't trust Kodak to keep making it much longer. The Delta was good, especially in 400 (120) but I didn't give it long enough til I moved on to something else. HP5 looked too muddy for me.

I'm wondering on suggestions people have for me. If I do choose either Delta or Acros, I'll need suggestions on developers. I'm developing with hangers in 1/2 gallon tanks, 6 sheets at a time.

I think my condition is called CTSBD..... chasing the silver bullet disease. and I need to settle on something I think I'll like.

Thanks for any and all help!

[Bill_1856]

Tri-X and D76 or HC110.

[nelsonfotodotcom]

Acros in HC110E has worked wonderfully for me in recent experiments. I'm shooting 35mm, mostly, have plenty of APX100/TriX/PanF+ in store, about to add some Acros bulk to that list and, if my wallet allows it, loose Acros 4x5. For low light work, the Acros is hard to beat, I would think. I haven't shot any TMX, but that is apparently a nice one as well, in terms of grain and reciprocity.

I believe I can live without the PanF and APX once my stores are depleted, and stick to Acros. It's such a nice film and handles very well in HC110E.

But, I'm a novice at LF, so perhaps there's something better kicking around that I'm not aware of. I'll put my 2-cents in this post and then make way for the elder shooters.

C.

[Brian Ellis]

If you've spent a year at this you know more about film and developer combinations than 90% of the people here, certainly more than I do. FWIW, if I were choosing only one film it would be a 400 speed film rather than a 100, the extra stop or two of speed comes in very handy with landscapes and breezes.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

I think every combination you have tried is great. Was there not one in the bunch you were happy with?

What you say about getting one combination and sticking with it is spot on as far as I am concerned. Most of the films you mention are fine, and I wouldn't worry to much about Kodak not making your film of choice.

You mentioned once in a different thread that you liked FP4+ in Rodinal, why not stick with it? That is a great film and by the results of the recent poll it seemed to be the favorite film by this user group by a wide margin.

Each film will work fine as far as I am concerned. Tri-X in HC110 or D76 has been a long time favorite with many well known photographers, but it really comes down to what you want to try.

It may take a few years to really get to know the film well. I shot HP5+ in Xtol for about 6 years and really liked it. I recently switched to Delta 100 in DDX 1+4 and it too is excellent, but I am just learning that one.

You are right, there are no magic bullets.

Good luck and stick with it, the more you use one combination the more you will like it. And remember, have fun.

Eric

[Ron Marshall]

I began my Grail quest with FP4, which I really like but I often shoot low light so the reciprocity was killing me.

I switched to Acros and love it (the best reciprocity; available in loose sheets from Megapearls). A friend gave me some TMX, and I find that it is very similar to Acros.

I have started a night project and after my preliminary tests I am very happy with TMY, at least it does what I want it to do.

So once I have finished my stock of various films I will standardise on TMX and TMY and one or two developers, to be determined by upcoming testing.

So far I have tried HC-110 and D76 and am very happy with HC-110.

But after reading many posts and the Film Developing Cookbook, and being a curious and thorough person I will test Rodinal, XTOL and Pyrocat-HD with TMX, and using semi-stand Rodinal and Pyrocat-HD with TMY. From these I will choose one or two developers, or go back to HC-110 for both films.

[nelsonfotodotcom]

I've done hi-dilution in HC110 with nice results. I am probably risking getting kicked out of here for posting samples off 35mm shoots, but here goes.

First, TriX @ 400 and HC110 1:100 for 28mins @20C
Constant agitation for 1 min, then 3 inv each 3 mins, final minute in constant, gentle agitation.

http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020806/t/02.jpg
(http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020806/02.jpg) http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020806/t/06.jpg
(http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020806/06.jpg) http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020806/t/07.jpg (http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020806/07.jpg) http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020806/t/10.jpg (http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020806/10.jpg)

[nelsonfotodotcom]

One more from that set. I get nice blacks with this routine. I'm scanning, not printing, so your mileage may vary.

http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020806//t/15.jpg (http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020806//15.jpg)

[nelsonfotodotcom]

Here's FP4+, same dilution/routine. 120 format.


http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020706/t/01.jpg (http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020706/01.jpg)

http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020706/t/08.jpg (http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020706/08.jpg)

http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020706/t/09.jpg (http://nelsonfoto.com/mein/film_archives/2006/February/020706/09.jpg)

[Andrew O'Neill]

If you find HP5+ to be muddy, then you haven't found the right developer or you haven't stuck with it long enough with a developer you tried it with. You need to take one film and one developer and stick with it for a few years....not take a bunch of films and a bunch of developers.
I've been using HP5+ for quite a few years now and it certainly isn't muddy. I've found that it performs beautifully in Xtol 1+1, and Pyrocat-HD. Some people use Rodinol with great success.

[brian steinberger]

These are some good responses. When you guys say Tri-x, you have to mean the ISO 320. I've read many reviews in this forum about tri-x being geared towards studio and this and that. Is it really good for outdoor variable lighting situations?

I've been developing HP5 in D-76 and haven't found it to be satisfying to me yet. Also, I've ran tests on FP4 in Rodinal 1:50 and found my EI to be 40. That's just way too low. And like Brian said, I'd rather be in favor of a 400 speed film too, but the only one available in 4x5 in HP5.

Delta and Acros sound very promising. Although so does FP4. I need to hear more suggestions

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

I agree with Brian Ellis, you have tried 6 different films in various developers. I cannot beleive you have no tfound one that you liked or at least gave you an acceptable print. If you are looking for recomendations that will give you master prints right out of the fixer, you are on a fools errand. Ì work exclusively with Tmx 400 and Pyrocat HD, but I have been using Tmx films for 15 years, I did manage to turn out some of the most horrible prints when I first started using it, so it is not a matter of ease, it is a matter of proper testing and stuburness... :)

My opinion, pick one of the ones you already used and are somewhat familiar with and stick with it.

[Oren Grad]

And like Brian said, I'd rather be in favor of a 400 speed film too, but the only one available in 4x5 in HP5.

TMax 400 (TMY). Fortepan 400 (available as JandC Classic 400). ISO 320 is virtually the same, so Tri-X (TXP) effectively falls into this group as well.


Delta and Acros sound very promising. Although so does FP4. I need to hear more suggestions

Brian, at this point more suggestions are not going to resolve your problem. It's not possible for us to give you a verbal description of a film that will tell you what you need to know.

Decide what film speed you need, then pick a brand name out of a hat. Take as many pictures as you can with that film, and DO NOT TOUCH ANY OTHER FILM for at least a year. You must hold at least one variable in the system constant for a while, or you will never figure out what's going on.

[Patrik Roseen]

...
I shoot 4x5, and mostly landscape, rustic architecture, and industrial photography. I'm debating between Delta 100 and Fuji Acros 100. I don't mind paying more for the quickloads. I liked the Tmax but don't trust Kodak to keep making it much longer. The Delta was good, especially in 400 (120) but I didn't give it long enough til I moved on to something else. HP5 looked too muddy for me.
...
Brian, I'm into my second year of LF and am also trying different films and developers, but certainly not as many as you have mentioned.

I am very curious about the way you evaluate the result from these different combinations. Are you evaluating and comparing the negatives or the final prints?

I have found that the same negative can produce very different results depending on paper quality and Variable Contrast used during printing (wet darkroom), etc
I am not suggesting you start another excercise of 10 different papers in combination with 5 different developers...I am merely interested in your way of evaluting the film/developer combinations.

[photographs42]

I doubt that there are any films on the market that cannot produce good results in the right hands. There is no way WE can tell YOU what YOU will like. When I started LF 25 years ago I read Ansel’s book “The Negative” (three times) and decided on Tri-x developed in HC-110 dilution B. I used that combination exclusively for several years and learned what it could do. After a few years I started experimenting with other combinations (I would read that old newspapers developed in chicken soup was GREAT so I would try it).

My test method was the traditional two negative approach. After basic film speed and development tests; make one neg with Tri-x and another with film X, develop both and evaluate the results. Somehow it never surprised me that the negative made with the film/dev combo that I knew how to get the most from was better than the new combo that I knew little about. Then I realized that Tri-x was doing just what I wanted it to do so why change.

Six years ago I was on a trip and needed more film and the only 5x7 B&W film I could find (in Seattle) was three boxes of HP5+. Without the luxury of being able to test it, I exposed it at EI 200. When I got home I decided to try Xtol with it and did development tests at EI 200 (because that was how I exposed it). The negatives came out great so I did a film speed test and found that, for me, EI 400 is the proper speed. Since then I have only used HP5+ and Xtol because I like the extra speed of that combo and while it is a little different than Tri-x, I like it just as well.

As others have stated, pick something, test it, and stick with it for a year (or 100 negatives whichever comes first). Then decide if you like it or not. If not, figure out what it is about it that you don’t like, tell us, and maybe then we can be of real help to you.

In the meantime, keep us posted and good luck.

Jerome

[jstraw]

Reading this discussion with great interest...

Are there any brands and formulations that people here just would stay away from?

[Andrew O'Neill]

I've been developing HP5 in D-76 and haven't found it to be satisfying to me yet

Have you tried it in D-76 1+1? It's wonderful in that rather than straight. Even 1+3 is sweet.
What look (curve) are you after in a film/developer combination? Depending on the developer and/or dilution, you can really manipulate the curve.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Ì work exclusively with Tmx 400 and Pyrocat HD

...now that's another sweet combination. Tmx 400's curve is one of the most responsive to developers out there.

[Ron Marshall]

I've been developing HP5 in D-76 and haven't found it to be satisfying to me yet. Also, I've ran tests on FP4 in Rodinal 1:50 and found my EI to be 40. That's just way too low. And like Brian said, I'd rather be in favor of a 400 speed film too, but the only one available in 4x5 in HP5.

Delta and Acros sound very promising. Although so does FP4. I need to hear more suggestions

TMY is available in 4x5. Much better reciprocity charecteristics that HP5. I have heard it works well with XTOL, but have only tried it with HC-110, which works very well. XTOL should give you an EI of 400 with TMY.

[Bruce Watson]

...if I were choosing only one film it would be a 400 speed film rather than a 100, the extra stop or two of speed comes in very handy with landscapes and breezes.

I'll second the vote for a 400 speed film. I'll add that a fair amount of what I shoot ends up flirting with, it not in, reciprocity failure. This is enough of an irritation in the field that I'm thinking of moving from 5x4 Tri-X to 5x4 400Tmax because of 400Tmax's superior reciprocity characteristics.

As an aside, I've made some beautiful grainless (no one who has seen them has complained about graininess, and a number have commented about the lack of grain) and tack sharp 125 x 100 cm (about 50 x 40 inch) prints from 5x4 Tri-X. IMHO, grain is not an issue in 5x4 film, so I wouldn't even consider it.

That said, if these two things (speed and reciprocity performance) are a priority for you too, well, that narrows the field down a bit, doesn't it?

[Bruce Watson]

These are some good responses. When you guys say Tri-x, you have to mean the ISO 320. I've read many reviews in this forum about tri-x being geared towards studio and this and that. Is it really good for outdoor variable lighting situations?

Oh yes. I've shot thousands of sheets of 5x4 Tri-X, almost all of it in natural sunlight. 5x4 Tri-X has dynamic range to spare. If it had better reciprocity characteristics I'd never look at another film.

[Don Wallace]

I have stayed with one developer and only a few films simply because I have not had enough time in a busy life to experiment as much as I would like. I have used HC-110 in the past because, rather than throwing out unused and depleted stock solutions, I could use it from syrup. If you keep HC 110 in small containers rather than in the one bottle, the syrup lasts forever. I am now getting more time to play and I have plans to test D76 and D23, and probably others.

I shoot mainly HP5 (EI 250) and FP4 (EI 100) and sometimes Tri-X (EI 250) and PanF (EI 50). I don't think you should limit yourself to one film. Although I love Pan F and FP4, you often really need the extra stop or two without bothering with reciprocity calculations. I would love to get a film that I could shoot at 400.

If I HAD to use only one combination, it would be FP4 in HC 110. No, wait, it would be Tri-X. Hmmm. No, FP4. But .......

[Ben Crane]

Several years ago I was in this same boat of having tried many different films and developers with few good results to show for it. Basically I got a lot of advice that I needed to use film X and developer Y, then someone else would give different advice. As a result I never got to know any single film or developer very well which made getting good results difficult to predict and spotty at best.

I think the best way is to find someone who has some experience and has produced work you respect and find out how they do it. This is what I did after taking a workshop from John Sexton in 2002. I basically used the technique he described until I was comfortable with it and have only introduced a few minor modifications over the years.

I use Tmax 100/400 in Tmax RS. But as others have pointed out, many other combinations can yield great results. The key when starting out is to just choose just one reasonable combination and learn how to do it well before jumping to another combination.