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chris jordan
14-Sep-2006, 09:31
Hi guys, here's a bum piece of news: it looks like the new generation of inkjet papers (Crane Museo, Hahnemule Fine Art Pearl, and Innova) cannot be face-mounted on plexi. The paper has a thickness to it, like a sponge, and apparently that thickness holds millions of tiny bubbles of air which get squeezed onto the surface of the print during the mounting process. I have had several prints face mounted as a test, and every one of them showed this defect. We tried one with heat and that seemed to solve the problem, but then it showed up on that print a couple of weeks later.

So for inkjet prints to be face-mounted, the Epson RC papers still seem to be the best bet.

~cj

www.chrisjordan.com

dmorse523
14-Sep-2006, 10:02
Hi Chris,

Did you run all the tests at the same lab? Different labs have different cleanliness stanards in terms of dust, etc which can also cause bubbles or other imperfections in the mounting process.

Also, I would definitely stay away from hot mounting in terms of the archivability factor with those prints (the heat may de-stabilize ink bonding and accelerate chemical reactions which could lead to image decay).

Have you tried using the digital c process for the imaging and face-mounting? (I've gotten consistently phenomenal results with both opaque photo paper and duratrans film imaged and finished this way)

Dan

chris jordan
14-Sep-2006, 13:46
Didn't have anything to do with cleanliness standards. Finishing Concepts has been face-mounting my big prints on Luster and Semimatte for several years, with consistently good results. There is something about the new papers that creates bubbles between the paper and the plexi.

Jan Nieuwenhuysen
14-Sep-2006, 14:44
I recently had prints on Hahnemuehle FAP diasec mounted. No problems whatsoever. Not with the diasec that is. All rolls of FAP I used had such coating problems that I quit using this particular paper.

Jan

Jan Nieuwenhuysen
14-Sep-2006, 14:50
I forgot to add: I also had a sample of Innova diasec mounted to see what it looks like. This also worked fine.

Jan

chris jordan
14-Sep-2006, 14:51
Jan, what is diasec? Is it a method for face-mounting?

bob carnie
14-Sep-2006, 14:55
Chris
The pressure of the rollers indeed would be a problem, has your lab experience with silicone mounting for face to plexi, not sure if this would help but if they are using permatrans exclusively then silicone could be an option to try.
Also a pre coating protective on the print surface may provide a barrier for the adesive process to work.*some workers I know will soak their prints in a gelatin like substance * not sure this would help your specific problem* the print inks are then in a emulsion of gelatin.
Would be interested to see how you make out with this.

tim atherton
14-Sep-2006, 14:59
Jan, what is diasec? Is it a method for face-mounting?

A proprietary form of face mounting (mainly found in Europe?) - "supposed" to be the most archivally safe...

E.G. http://www.diasec.com/

what all the Struthskys use

Jan Nieuwenhuysen
14-Sep-2006, 15:00
Yes Chris, Diasec is a face-mounting method for adhering photos to, e.g., acrylic plates. It is widely used for art work. Maybe in the States it has another brand name?

Jan

tim atherton
14-Sep-2006, 15:02
Chris, have your people tried Optimount (I think it is...) etc?

Marco
15-Sep-2006, 06:12
Chris, Diasec is used by Massimo Vitali too.

I'm experimenting with Diasec in those days, I had some samples made by Wilkovak, a Diasec specialist located in Holland (there are no Diasec license here in Italy), here's their website: http://www.wilcovak.nl/uk/index.htm, Wilkovack has face mounted with Diasec all the La Chapelle and Olaf prints I saw in our gallerist's gallery in Amsterdam, they looked gorgeous!

The guys at the Wilkovak told me that Diasec works better with traditional printing process, they had some adherence problems with inkjet paper, and to avoid those problems they usually coat the inkjet print with a clear laminate and then face mount the print to plexi with Diasec.
I've not seen yet one inkjet print mounted in this way, so I can't comment on the visual effect, but I'm going to send some of our new images to Wilkowak, I'll let you know my impressions...

Ciao
Marco

dmorse523
15-Sep-2006, 06:42
Hi Chris,

I wasn't intending to knock your labs cleanliness standards, etc (although in my experience even the best labs make occasional mistakes, as the mounting/finishing process is human labor intensive).

According to the Diasec site, they believe that cleanliness in general is the key to doing it right-I can't figure out what else they claim to offer that is unique and patentable as a process (face-mounting to plexi has existed for years in commercial graphics).

If anyone out there knows what else they offer via Diased that justifies their claim to uniqueness as a process, I'm eager to learn.

Thanks!

Dan

Marco
15-Sep-2006, 07:23
Dan, I've been told that Diasec is a patented mounting process in which no glue is involved, the print adheres with a chemical process to the back of the plexi, i.e. adherence is obtained with a chemical reaction between two liquid components.
These liquid components, and the result of their interaction, are much more archivial than the "normal" glue or the silicon usually involved in other mounting processes.

In this website (sorry, is in french), the differences between Diasec and other face mounting process in which plexi is involved, are summarized in few lines:


http://www.authentic.be/emc.asp?pageId=572



Ciao
Marco