Slosher Tray Technique

[Kevin Klazek]

After spending some time and quite a few negs trying to perfect the tray development shuffle technique, I still end up with some scratching no matter how carefull I am. So, I built a slosher tray using plexi that will hold 4-5x7 sheets at a time. For all the sloshers out there, what is your developement technique relative to agitation sequence/times? I have read Phil Bards article re slosher use, but I was was looking for any additional comments/tips. I use 5x7 FP4 with HC-110 Dil B or H. I start with a 2 min water soak.
Thanks

Kevin

[Louie Powell]

I also have a home-built slosher - 6-4x5 sheets in an 11x14 tray.

Like Kevin, I start with a presoak. I'm not especially anal about how long - usually about a minute. I don't think the duration is important as long as the emulsion has an opportunity to get thoroughly wet. The objective of presoaking is to wet the emulsion and stabilize it at the processing temperature.

I use HC-110 dilution H (which is dilution B with twice the normal amount of water). I find that I can get thorough, even development with 800ml of developer with my slosher in the 11x14 tray that I use. Milleage varies.

I agitate by lifting opposing corners of the slosher and then dropping them back into the solution. I agitation continuously for the first 30 seconds. Thereafter, I agitation every 30 seconds. Each agitation cycle consists of lifting the corners 8 times (4 times per corner), followed by a gentle "wiggle" of the tray - total agitation time each cycle is 6-8 seconds.

With Efke 100 film exposed at EI50 and HC-110 dilution H, my development time is 11 minutes, including about 15 seconds of draining at the end of development. I then transfer the slosher to a tray containing a quart of water and a little weak acetic acid. I agitate for about 10 seconds, and then let it rest for about 20 sec while I reset my timer. Drain, and then move to the rapid fixer. I set my timer for 3 minutes, and agitate continuously for the first minute. Then, rinse off my hands (which are bagged in rubber gloves), and turn on the lights.

While the film is in the fixer, I dump the develper and stop baths and rinse those trays. I also dump the presoak bath (which is dark green with Efke film), rinse the tray, and set it up with a quart of fresh water as a rinse. By then, the three minues on the timer will have elapsed - and if the fixer is fresh, the film will be completely clear. I typically agitate a few more times over the course of the next minute, and then move the slosher to the rinse tray. Either return the fixer to its bottle (or dump it if it is approaching exhaustion), agitate a couple of times, and then move the slosher to a hypo-clear bath where I agitate continuously for about 90 seconds. Then to a fresh water bath where it soaks in still water. I go through several successive soaking steps of 5 - 10 minutes each while I am cleaning up the darkroom, preparing film notation sheets, reloading holders, etc. Finally, the film, still in the slosher, goes into a PhotoFlo bath (mixed at half strength in tap water that has been through an RO filter. Hang to dry.

[Raketemensch]

Would anyone post a link to the Phil Bards article? I can't find it. Thx in adv!

[Kevin Klazek]

Looks like the domain name has expired for Phil's site.

I processed my first 4 negs today in the slosher and ended up with perfect negs with no scratches or processing problems. I am sold. The agitation cycle I used was similar to Louis's. First 30 sec, lift each side twice (top/bottom then right/left) for two rounds for a total of 8 lifts per round. Rest 30 seconds. Repeat agitation. The lift is gental with the negs not coming out of the chems.

I used 2 liters of chems, but wonder if I could get away with 1 liter (11X14 tray). Do the negs have to be deep or just covered?

Kevin

[Ben Crane]

I used 2 liters of chems, but wonder if I could get away with 1 liter (11X14 tray). Do the negs have to be deep or just covered?

Kevin

I can get away with 1200 cc in an 11x14 try with 6 4x5 negatives in the slosher. Going to 1000 cc might be cutting it a bit tight but it likely depends on how thick your slosher is and how deep the grooves in your tray are.

[Louie Powell]

It is necessary that the negatives be covered, but you don't need a lot of liquid for that to happen.

My sink has a slight slope, and my trays are designed to be slightly asymmetrical so that they can be agitated by rocking. I only use 800ml of developer for 6-4x5 negatives, and as long as I agitate, I don't have a problem. But if I let the negatives sit with no agitation, eventually I do note that the high-end negative on the upstream side will drift upward and appear to not be totally submirged. Fortunately, this has not been a real problem for me, and is far less likely to happen if I use a full liter of liquid (which I normally do when washing).

When agitating, I try to not lift the slosher so high that it actually comes out of the liquid - but of course I can't be absolutely sure that I am achieving that goal when I agitate in total darkness! But the important part of the agitation cycle is when you release a corner - when it goes back to the bottom of the tray, liquid is forced through the holes in the bottom and sides of the slosher and flows all around the negative.

[ParkerSmithPhoto]

After spending some time and quite a few negs trying to perfect the tray development shuffle technique, I still end up with some scratching no matter how carefull I am. So, I built a slosher tray using plexi that will hold 4-5x7 sheets at a time. For all the sloshers out there, what is your developement technique relative to agitation sequence/times? I have read Phil Bards article re slosher use, but I was was looking for any additional comments/tips. I use 5x7 FP4 with HC-110 Dil B or H. I start with a 2 min water soak.
Thanks

Kevin
Kevin, Any chance you could post a photo or two of your slosher tray? I am considering building one.

Thanks!

[Jim Noel]

Looks like the domain name has expired for Phil's site.

I processed my first 4 negs today in the slosher and ended up with perfect negs with no scratches or processing problems. I am sold. The agitation cycle I used was similar to Louis's. First 30 sec, lift each side twice (top/bottom then right/left) for two rounds for a total of 8 lifts per round. Rest 30 seconds. Repeat agitation. The lift is gental with the negs not coming out of the chems.

I used 2 liters of chems, but wonder if I could get away with 1 liter (11X14 tray). Do the negs have to be deep or just covered?

Kevin

You have to have enough quantity of developer concentrate so as to prevent exhaustion, regardless of dilution.

[Jim Noel]

It is necessary that the negatives be covered, but you don't need a lot of liquid for that to happen.

My sink has a slight slope, and my trays are designed to be slightly asymmetrical so that they can be agitated by rocking. I only use 800ml of developer for 6-4x5 negatives, and as long as I agitate, I don't have a problem. But if I let the negatives sit with no agitation, eventually I do note that the high-end negative on the upstream side will drift upward and appear to not be totally submirged. Fortunately, this has not been a real problem for me, and is far less likely to happen if I use a full liter of liquid (which I normally do when washing).

When agitating, I try to not lift the slosher so high that it actually comes out of the liquid - but of course I can't be absolutely sure that I am achieving that goal when I agitate in total darkness! But the important part of the agitation cycle is when you release a corner - when it goes back to the bottom of the tray, liquid is forced through the holes in the bottom and sides of the slosher and flows all around the negative.

Lift the tray corners instead of your "slosher" and your problem of lifting out of developer will be solved.

[JMO]

I have a couple of the Slosher units that I purchased from another LFer who retired and sold all his DR gear. I also attended John Sexton's workshop in 2017, where he talked (briefly) about this technique and included some info about the trays and the technique in his workbook. However, has anybody used the Slosher technique with D-76 developer? If so, what times and agitation techniques for the processing steps?

Finally, I've never tried even normal B&W film development in trays (I use a JOBO CPP2 and Expert Drums), so if I were to give the Slosher technique a try I suppose I'd need to do all the steps of loading film into the Slosher tray, water soak, developer, stop, and fixer in the total darkness? Is that correct? I have a full darkroom that can be totally dark, so I could try this, but I want to know what's needed as I go about this.

PS: And one more question that none of the above posts seem to address, when you put the films into the Slosher tray do you put them in with emulsion side down? Or up?

[ParkerSmithPhoto]

I emailed Phil Bard and he was kind enough to send me this diagram of his Slosher design.
212548

[Heroique]

...any chance you could post a photo or two of your slosher tray? I am considering building one. Thanks!

Here’s another typical slosher (4x5):

212550



PS: And one more question that none of the above posts seem to address, when you put the films into the Slosher tray do you put them in with emulsion side down? Or up?

There are pros and cons either way, but I’ve always done "emulsion side up" since I want to avoid scratching the emulsion side on the slosher’s surface. Using this method, I’ve never had a problem with scratching the non-emulsion side.

[Richard Wasserman]

I made 2 slosher type trays, one for 4x5 and one for 4x10. I used them with Pyrocat HD and minimal agitation. I have since switched to a JOBO for the convenience and so I can also run C-41.

[Jim Noel]

Two of mine are very similar to Richards except I use a few 1/16" plexi dowels to separate the compartments. The others, which I use more often, are made of 24 gauge stainless steel wire which are welded at point of crossover. The wire are the best because there is no danger of currents forming streaks on film.
Always emulsion up. agitation by lifting corners of tray.

[ParkerSmithPhoto]

I made 2 slosher type trays, one for 4x5 and one for 4x10. I used them with Pyrocat HD and minimal agitation. I have since switched to a JOBO for the convenience and so I can also run C-41.

Very nice, are those made of polystyrene? What did you use for glue?

[Richard Wasserman]

Very nice, are those made of polystyrene? What did you use for glue?

Thank you! The 4x5 is made of 1/8 inch acrylic (Plexiglass) that I had on hand. I don't remember what adhesive I used—it was a long time ago— but I think probably Epoxy. The 4x10 tray is 1/8 PVC and I used plumbing pipe adhesive. I found that the Slosher type trays on the market didn't work well for me as they don't have enough open space which caused uneven development, so I made mine more open and they work very well.

[Edward Pierce]

The best adhesive for acrylic is acrylic cement. Weld-On 4 is “water thin”. Apply a small amount along a tightly fitting joint and capillary action pulls the cement throughout the joint. For imperfect joints, such as a piece that was cut by hand with a hacksaw, Weld-On 16 which has a consistency more like model airplane glue is better.

[Louie Powell]

I was first exposed to sloshers in a workshop with Chip Forelli, and when I got home I made my own from plexiglass. I used plexiglass cement - a specialty item that I found at a glass shop.

I always loaded them emulsion side up to avoid the risk that the emulsion might rub on the bottom of the slosher. In addition to scratching, the problem with processing emulsion down is that there is a tendency for air to get trapped under the film, and if the emulsion is down, that can lead to ineven processing. If the sheets are emulsion up, chemicals will flow over the surface resulting in very even development.

You want the edges of that hole in the bottom to be very smooth (use sandpaper), but emulsion up is just safer. That said, the issue then becomes fingernails (DAMHIKT). I found that wearing latex or nitrile gloves solved that problem while also avoiding the need to have your hands in the solutions.

Yes, the entire process is done in the dark, at least up to about half-way through fixing. After that, you can turn on the lights. It is a good idea to lift the corners of the individual sheets to make sure that fixer and all subsequent chemicals get to both sides of the sheet, but that's mainly to assure that the antihalation dye is thoroughly washed out.

[Jim Noel]

i have a couple of the slosher units that i purchased from another lfer who retired and sold all his dr gear. I also attended john sexton's workshop in 2017, where he talked (briefly) about this technique and included some info about the trays and the technique in his workbook. However, has anybody used the slosher technique with d-76 developer? if so, what times and agitation techniques for the processing steps?

Finally, i've never tried even normal b&w film development in trays (i use a jobo cpp2 and expert drums), so if i were to give the slosher technique a try i suppose i'd need to do all the steps of loading film into the slosher tray, water soak, developer, stop, and fixer in the total darkness? Is that correct? I have a full darkroom that can be totally dark, so i could try this, but i want to know what's needed as i go about this.

Ps: And one more question that none of the above posts seem to address, when you put the films into the slosher tray do you put them in with emulsion side down? Or up?

up