Frustrated! Need Help Deving 4x5

[G Benaim]

Well, it seems every time I process some 4x5 sheets, I get some sort of problem! I started out doing it in a tank, taco style, but then some of the corners wouldn't develop because they'd stick out too much. So I switched to trays, one by one, doing DBI, and that worked for a while, until I started getting uneven dev. (denser edges). So I tried doing a bunch at a time, following directions by S Simmons, MAS, and assorted forumers, and managed to get scratches smack in the middle of every one of the 5 sheets I did (did them emulsion down, 8x10 tray, 1 liter of developer). So I went back to single sheets, and managed to get both uneven development and bromide drag along the edges! I think I've covered every possible technical mistake so far!
So, what I need is your best fool-proof method, preferably tray processing as it's most easily done w DBI which I'm really liking, as well as tips on how to deal w all this frustration! Thanks,

GB

[PigleT]

Personally I use a Paterson Orbital, scored base, emulsion side up.
2 sheets => aligned in the bottom middle, using 250ml developer
4 sheets => around the corners, using ~350ml developer
Agitation is key: too much and it all jumps about inside giving uneven development and a stain on the carpet; too little and it doesn't permeate underneath the film properly. A gentle rocking at one end to send a wave back and forth for about 10s at the top of every minute is my favoured method.

http://pig.sty.nu/Pictures/composition/paterson_orbital/ might help.

[Patrik Roseen]

I do not know which developer you are using nor the dilution.

I have not had any problems (knock on wood) with my development, but then I also use a very diluted developer for a longer development time (14-17 min, 20C). I read somewhere when I started out that the risk of uneven development and also problems from uneven agitation is less of a risk with a longer development time (not too long though). The temperature is also an important factor.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

You might also consider a "slosher" that can be made easily and I have heard that they work very well. I used one once and it was easy to use. They are made commercially as well, check out:

http://www.summitek.com/products.html

Hope this helps.

[steve simmons]

did you follow my article completly? I can't imagine how you got scratches in the middle of each sheet!


steve simmons

[sanking]

[QUOTE=G Benaim]
So, what I need is your best fool-proof method, preferably tray processing as it's most easily done w DBI which I'm really liking, as well as tips on how to deal w all this frustration! Thanks,

GB[/QUOTE

If you really want tray developing for DBI I second the suggestion to use a slosher. The negatives are separated and you will not get scratches.

If DBI were not important I would suggest developing the film in open-ended PVC tubes cut to the length of the film. You just place the film in the tubes and then plot them into the developer, making sure there is enough to cover the tubes. This is also a good method to avoid scratches.

I developed film for many years in trays, and when I compare those negatives to negatives that I later developed in tubes there are far fewer scratches. This really became evident to me when I started scanning negatives of both types, where it immediatley became apparent that I was spending a lot more time in Photoshop correcting for small scratches.

Tray developing obviously works for some people, but it did not work particulary well for me. The slosher and tubes will give you very even development, better than trays, and completely eliminates the risk of scratching.

Sandy King

[Brian Ellis]

I don't know what DBI is and I guess from Sandy's response it's somehow incompatible with tubes but FWIW I've used tubes for about ten years and don't offhand recall ever having a scratch, uneven development, or any other problem. I use the BTZS tubes but you can easily make your own. I used to tray develop 8x10 negatives because 8x10 BTZS tubes are hard to find and my home-made 8x10 (as opposed to 4x5) tubes didn't work too well. I despised standing in the dark for 15 or so minutes inhaling chemical fumes and jiggling trays while praying that there would be no scratches, so I quit that as soon as I was able to find some 8x10 BTZS tubes.

[Ron Marshall]

I use a Jobo Expert drum, hand-rolled on a $20 Jobo roller-base.

Easy to load, daylight processing, requires minimal chemical volume. Consistent even development.

[sanking]

I don't know what DBI is and I guess from Sandy's response it's somehow incompatible with tubes but FWIW I've used tubes for about ten years and don't offhand recall ever having a scratch, uneven development, or any other problem. I use the BTZS tubes but you can easily make your own. I used to tray develop 8x10 negatives because 8x10 BTZS tubes are hard to find and my home-made 8x10 (as opposed to 4x5) tubes didn't work too well. I despised standing in the dark for 15 or so minutes inhaling chemical fumes and jiggling trays while praying that there would be no scratches, so I quit that as soon as I was able to find some 8x10 BTZS tubes.


DBI is development by inspection and it is pretty much incompatible with tube develoment since you would have to remove the negative from the tube, examine it and then return it to the tube.

One of the major reasons I prefer tube and drum development is because I too despise having to stand in the dark for the length of time necessary to develop film. Some people don't mind this, and do a good job withi tray development, but personally I would rather watch a panel discussion on rare earth gases, or go to the dentist, than develop film in trays in complete darkness. Been there, done that, and have moved on. Now, the slosher with night vision goggles could get me excited.

Sandy

[KenM]

Get some rubber tanks and hangers - you can do DBI with them. As long as you don't get the hangers off center from each other, you'll never scratch another neg.

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

If all this does not work, you can always try brush development. It will give you development times and the smoothness of tubes but of course you can do it on trays. The drawback is that you have to do one by one and I dont have the patience for that anymore.

[j.e.simmons]

I do brush development. Doing them one at a time allows me to hide from the world in the dark for long periods of time. Sitting there slowly moving the brush over the negative is wonderfully meditative. Then that damned Gralab makes that horrible, ear-splitting buzz.
juan

[G Benaim]

Thanks all for your replies.
Steve, I've been trying to figure out how I got them in the middle too. On each one! It may have hapenned as I looked at them separately for DBI, not sure.
Sandy, I take your point re scratches and scanning, not something I'd have thought about, but can see how it'll matter down the road.
I guess the slosher or the open tubes are the best alternatives, though I do own tanks and hangers, just haven't felt like using 1.7 liters of dev every time! I was hoping to figure out a way to do tray processing by shuffling, but it might not be worth the hassle. Thanks again.

[Jay DeFehr]

Your problem with the taco method is easily fixed; just use more developer solution. Of course, that doesn't address your DBI preferrence. Good luck with whatever method you use.

Jay

[Brian Ellis]

Ah, DBI = development by inspection. I should have known that. I happened to own a SL with a GF so I tried DBI for a while after attending MS and PC's workshop in PA. I couldn't find a FS that would connect to my SL and DBI is hard to do with only one hand holding the negative and the other . Interestingly, I ended up selling the GF to MS. They're apparently hard to find and he wanted one as a spare.

[optV]

Ah abbreviations (ABR for short) reminds me of the time (EST to be specific) in NYC I was in the USAF when I set the ISO/ASA on my SLR with TTL metering I was shooting fuji RVP which IMO isn't as good as TMX. But don't take my advise(ADV), its not like I have a MBA from MIT. I do like watching the NBA. Which reminds me, be sure to RSVP for the big NFL party where we gather around the TV and BBQ. Oops, forgot the beer, WOT to the store!

Ah its late...

[Michael Graves]

I despised standing in the dark for 15 or so minutes inhaling chemical fumes and jiggling trays while praying that there would be no scratches, so I quit that as soon as I was able to find some 8x10 BTZS tubes.

I'm not a big fan of that either, and I like semi-stand development. So I have my tray line set up for 16x20 trays. I put my sloshers into Patterson 12x16 trays and leave enough space around the developer tray. Once the initial agitation is done, I plunk a 16x20 tray upside down over the developer tray with the sheets of film and sneak out the door. Since I use 3 twenty minute intervals, I set my wife's egg timer for 90 seconds before the next agitation cycle and set it next to me while I browse Ebay or read LFPF posts. When it goes off, I slip back into the darkroom, lift off the bigger tray and aggravate the film once again and repeat the cycle. Woops...gotta go. The egg timer just went off.