Why not to buy Arca Swiss Discovery?

[Jan_6568]

I think I got serious GAS and need your help to recover (also my wife would appreciate that a lot:). I am thinking for several days of replacing my 4x5 Tachihara with Arca Swiss Discovery. I mostly use 4x5 for landscapes, which of course involves some, not very hard, hiking and for macro. There are some features I am missing while working with Tachihara - horizontal movements and too short bellows for many macro photographs I want to make. I understand that Discovery would not give me more bellows then Tachihara and that I can use swings to get basically the same effect as horizontal displacement would give me with Discovery. But it is so tempting!
I would probably sell Tachihara and one or two lenses I have and use only occasionally...
So please, tell my why Discovery is so bad that I do not want it:), may be it is too heavy or bulky for hiking? Or, maybe it is just bad, or maybe... something else...


Jan

[Christopher Perez]

Keep the Tachihara and buy the Arca!

Now that I've spent your money and thrown you over the edge into divorce court, here's what you get for your trouble.

Tachihara - light, compact, folds flat, does fine closeup work with a 150mm or shorter lens. Good, but not great, movements. Brilliant groundglass (v.bright for focusing). It'd would be a nice travel companion. Might even maintain domestic harmony when on vacation if you work quickly while the other half shops. Or something.

Arca - This is the camera that God Himself uses. It's smooth. It's relatively compact (but not really compact enough for field work several days from the car). Did I mention that it's smooth? Incredible movements. Swap the focusing rail out for a nice 40cm or 50cm jobber and you can get all the macro you'll ever want/need. I'm sure I mentioned that it's smooth. Throw a nice Arca to Linhof board adapter and you'll be set with both cameras. The build quality of Arca can't be bettered. Seriously. These are nearly flawless designs well executed by machining masters. Boy, are they smooth!

I use an Ikeda Anba for ultra light weight travel (to the far side of the globe while on business trips). The camera and a few choice small lenses make the whole kit lighter than one 120 format camera and a couple lenses. As a bonus I get movements, even if they are somewhat limited.

I use an Arca for everything else in 4x5. The camera is a joy to use. I smile every time I haul that thing out. Around town and across the country in a car, it's the nicest 4x5 camera I have ever owned... and I have owned just about one of every model of any camera ever made (well, it seems like it sometimes).

If I could find a 5x7 and an 8x10 change kit for the Arca, I would sell everything else. Except the Anba.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Jan,

The only reason not to get an ARCA-SWISS Discovery is you may eventually find yourself lusting after one of the higher-end F-Line models with Micrometric Orbix or other niceties. Seriously, I started with an older model ARCA and have now assembled a small fortune in various cameras and accessories - but, I'm not complaining. I love my ARCA system and can configure it to shoot 6x9, 4x5, 5x7, 4x10 and 7x17 with lenses ranging from 35mm - 1000mm. It's an amazingly versatile system.

And as Chris says, the quality and precision are addictive.

BTW, the standard bellows that comes with the Discovery is conservatively rated for a maximum extension of 38cm (I believe the Tachihara is somewhere in the 305mm range). With a different rail (or a rail extension) you can get more extension with the Discovery than with the Tachihara. I wouldn't recommend it on a regular basis, but in a pinch (when I didn't have my longer bellows) I've used the standard 38cm bellows to focus a 450mm Fujinon C at infinity - something you cant' do with a Tachihara.

I'm a big fan of the ARCA-SWISS telescoping rails as they give considerably more extension than the fixed length and compact rails. The nice thing is you have choices and can configure the camera to meet your needs. If you are buying new, and think you'd like more extension for longer lenses or macro work, see if your dealer can order your Discovery with the 30cm telescoping rail set (30cm extension bracket and two 15cm rail sections) rather than the standard 30cm fixed rail. It will cost a little more, but will give you both more extension and a more compact camera (with both standars on one of the 15cm rail sections) when collapsed for transport.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

P.S. When I wrote an article about the ARCA-SWISS cameras for View Camera a couple years ago I stated that the Discovery is one of the best buys around in new large format cameras. I still believe that's the case. It's 90% of an F-Line at just over 50% of the cost. And unlike some manufacturers' "entry level" models, the Discovery isn't some dead-end, stripped-down, lower quality wannabe. It's a full-fledged member of the ARCA-SWISS system built to the same quality standards and capable of taking the same accessories as the higher end models. It's basically the equivalent of an F-Line with a fixed length rail, no geared focus on the front standard and different colored knobs for $1400 less (and I also happen to think the F-Line Basic at $2895 is also a good deal compared to other cameras of comparable quality and function).

Kerry

[Frank Petronio]

Ditto, although I differ with my buddy Chris and have to say that a Tachi is too light and that it is worth the slight extra weight to just use the Arca for everything. You can find a few weight savings techniques like using just the small rail section from an older model Arca, using a Linhof adaptor lensboard, etc.

[Eric Brody]

Go for it. You'll not regret it. Buying the best, assuming you can afford it, always pays off. I kept my original 4x5 for many years until a milestone birthday approached and I decided that if I did not get my dream camera soon, I might never get around to it. I agree with Christopher and Kerry, maybe it's a Portland thing; it is smooth, a true work of art. My Arca F-line Field weighs no more than my Toyo 45A but it is in a different class, (and different price range too), but I love it.

Eric

[scott_6029]

It's exactly what I did! I sold my tachihara and bought an arca discovery. Fits right in the back pack with three lenses and readyloads. I didn't go with the collapsable rail either. The tach was fine, got some great images, but I felt more comfortable with the rigidity of the arca. The discovery is so good, I wonder why you would want to spend more to go up the line....

I have no GAS with the ARCA Discovery 4 x 5. Some like the orbix, which I think you can add to the front standard. Talk to Rod at Photomark.

The arca ball is nice with the discovery too. And, if you sell the arca you won't lose much at all down the road.

But for now the 7 x 17 is first, 8 x 10 second, the discovery a distant third...it's a format thing....

[Jan_6568]

Oh, great - I am desperated now! I wanted you to convince me I do NOT want it!
Anyhow - I will probably but Arca.
At the moment I have two questions:
am I right that Discovery does not have geared front focus? How about movements?
Can I use only Arca ball-head with Discovery or it has standard threads?
Jan

[Ole Tjugen]

The reason I'm not going to buy an Arca Swiss Discovery is that I already own a Carbon Infinity. With base and center tilts, center swings, full shift and rise - all of that on both front and rear. Also both front and rear have geared focus, and bellows extension from 30mm to 550mm without resorting to "tricks".

Oh - and it folds into it's own "tortoise shell", with a decent-sized lens inside.

[Rory_5244]

These EVIL people. They're from the Dark Side, I tell you! Stay with your humble Jedi camera that can take pictures indistinguishable from any Arca. Do not be tempted by the Darth Arca black machined monolith! Realise that with the supplied (non-folding) rail you will have to slide the standards on and off the rail to get the camera to fit into any bag smaller than a 'fridge. Imagine doing that routine over and over again. Ya, before long you will NEED a new rail. The path to poverty will begin, and forever will it dominate your destiny!!

Oh yes, the backs on the Arcas are very stiff. Yes, indeedy. You will need to use a car jack to insert a film holder. After you insert the film holder you are certain to end up with an out-of-focus picture. Why? Because the standard never locks down tight enough so there is focus-creep when the film holder is inserted. Oh ya, remember to walk with extra screws as them Arca screws will start to rust 2 weeks after your new camera arrives. Oh ya, make sure you build interstellar spacecraft for a living. Why? Well, the Arca comes disassembled, and the assembly instructions can only be deciphered by somebody working at NASA.

Ya, behold Darth Arca. Sic Yoda on it.

[Jean-Marie Solichon]

Jan,
I am mostly a field camera guy but I was tempted by a Discovery a couple of years ago. It is a good camera but, at the difference of the Tachi, you will need a bag bellows for wide angle lenses (at least for 75 but even for 90mm I guess) and some additional rail to focus a 300mm at infinity.

[Brian Ellis]

"So please, tell my why Discovery is so bad that I do not want it, may be it is too heavy or bulky for hiking? Or, maybe it is just bad, or maybe... something else..."


It's a monorail and you do field work. It's bulkier and heavier than your Tachihara. Your Tachihara will allow you to make 1:1 close-ups with a 150mm lens, how much closer do you want to get? Your Tachihara has one of the most flexible bellows around, you can use a lens as short as 65mm, maybe even 58mm, without a bag bellows - will an Arca do that? You shouldn't be spending any more money on camera equipment right now, there are too many things around the house that need fixing or replacement. Neglecting your house and family in order to buy more camera gear is only going to instill feelings of guilt and buyer's remorse. Don't you think your wonderful wife, who worked so hard to put your through taxidermy school, deserves something more than seeing the UPS guy coming up the steps with yet another box of camera stuff? Or did you plan to sneak off to the basement to open the box and then tell her it just contained film? I hope not. And at some level of rationality I'm sure you know that you aren't going to make any better photographs with an Arca than you do with your Tachihara.

[Rory_5244]

:D You tell him, Brian! Of course, he's going to buy it anyway.

[Doug Dolde]

Get an Arca but get something better than a Discovery. Otherwise you will buy twice.

[Doug Dolde]

Ya, behold Darth Arca. Sic Yoda on it.

Funny but an Ebony dark cloth is all I have left of my Ebony kit...and it works fine on my Arca.

[Brad Rippe]

Jan,
Do what Chris said and keep the Tachi and buy the Arca. I bought the F-Line Field camera and I get in the best mood just taking out of my backpack. Sounds strange, but yesterday my daughter asked me what my favorite possession is, (besides my kids and dog) and you guessed it, my Arca Swiss.
I use it in the field for day trips. For multi day backpacking I use the underrated Toyo CF.
Good luck and let us know what you decide.

-Brad

[scott_6029]

You won't need a bag bellows for a 90mm. I used one just fine. I am fine with the focusing. The rear standard that hold the film holder in place can be a little stiff at first. There are other products/brackets that will hold the arca's. But, whatever.

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

58mm, without a bag bellows - will an Arca do that?

Yes of course. The new leather bellows that fits the misura and the "field" F-fline 6x9 -> 4"x5" . It easily holds a 55 mm wide angle lens on a flat lensboard. With all movements of course.
Extensible up safely up to 300 mm of drag, can accommodate a 400 telephoto.

[Ben Calwell]

My advice would be to keep the Tachihara and also buy the Discovery (if you could afford to do that). You'll find that as time passes, you'll appreciate having a light weight field camera that is easy to pack away and carry.
I almost got rid of my Wista DX a few years ago, but I'm glad I didn't.

[Paul-Owen]

Christopher P - "Arca - This is the camera that God Himself uses"

Hmmm ..... and there's me thinking He used an Ebony!

[evan clarke]

Christopher P - "Arca - This is the camera that God Himself uses"

Hmmm ..... and there's me thinking He used an Ebony!

Probably has one of each...EC

[Christopher Perez]

Uh oh... here we go... another My God is better than Your God argument. But since I seem to have started something... I need to ask:

Does Your God let you make as nice photos from your Ebony as My God allows me with my Arca? :) :) :)



Christopher P - "Arca - This is the camera that God Himself uses"

Hmmm ..... and there's me thinking He used an Ebony!

[Eric James]

Uh oh... here we go... another My God is better than Your God argument. But since I seem to have started something... I need to ask:

Does Your God let you make as nice photos from your Ebony as My God allows me with my Arca? :) :) :)

As long as your bellows aren't "holy" I would imagine that your God's Ebony will measure up.

[Doug Dolde]

Arca - This is the camera that God Himself uses.

Nah he has an old Linhof 8x10 but never uses it now that he has his H2/P45 kit.

[Jan_6568]

"Neglecting your house and family in order to buy more camera gear is only going to instill feelings of guilt and buyer's remorse. Don't you think your wonderful wife, who worked so hard to put your through taxidermy school, deserves something more than seeing the UPS guy coming up the steps with yet another box of camera stuff? Or did you plan to sneak off to the basement to open the box and then tell her it just contained film? I hope not. And at some level of rationality I'm sure you know that you aren't going to make any better photographs with an Arca than you do with your Tachihara.

Brain,
thank you - I am on my way to recover.....
yes, indeed, my wife is wonderful, she is a figure of patience as a companion in our photo trips. She is able to say nothing when after spending 20 minutes on seting my camera I say "no, I am not taking this photograph", we then move 100 meters and I say - "here is the picture!", set up the tripod and camera again, she stays happy and smile.
She is so wonderful that I decided I am not going to get the Arca, instead I will spend some money for a present to her, but I dare to hope to get one from her :)

Jan

[Jim Rice]

Damn, Brian almost makes me feel married again.

[Stephen Sample]

Can anyone tell me how much movement I can get with the Discovery with a 90mm lens? With my Wista 45, I really am stretching the bellows to do much rise or swing. Is the Canham 45 dlc better in this feature? Thanks.

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Can anyone tell me how much movement I can get with the Discovery with a 90mm lens?

In short :
- little movements with the standard square synthetic bellows ref 072040 listed 150-300mm by the manufacturer ; see page 21 here

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ARCA.pdf

- all you could dream of with one of the the bag bellows
35-210 mm wide angle leather 072050
35-180 mm wide angle synthetic 072051


You can also read his, which contains interesting info :
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=7936&highlight=arca+discovery+movements

Quote from Henry Ambrose : I use as short as a 65 on this camera and at that focal length with the bag bellows I can apply more movement than the lens will cover.

[Harley Goldman]

I started with a Wista DXII. Sold it and bought a used F-Line Classic. Have not regretted it for a millisecond. Love the Arca. A pure joy to use. I hike a mile or two with it. If I am going farther, I have a Toho. The Arca is very field friendly and very quick to setup and use.

[walter23]

So please, tell my why Discovery is so bad that I do not want it:), may be it is too heavy or bulky for hiking? Or, maybe it is just bad, or maybe... something else...

It's an empty box that holds film on one end and a lens on the other... are you that bored with your current box? If as you say it doesn't even give you the extension you're longing for, why bother? You know you can get just about any old monorail with tons of extension for like $100, right? Which would give you the best of both worlds....

[Carsten Wolff]

Walter, please,
God can see you.......

[Mattg]

The only reason I can think of is that you should should buy a Misura instead. God knows it will be the first thing I buy when I win Lotto.