Dslr

[George Stewart]

I'm about to purchase my first DSLR (35mm-style, either pro or semi-pro model). It will mostly be a companion to LF when I do landscape work. Although a DSLR can be a serious tool, I'm still of the mind-set that it will be more of a toy (compared to pure LF) than a tool for fine art B&W. I'd like to hear from those who carry a DSLR with them when they do their LF work. What do you have, and why? What would you like to have? Do you find that it benefits you LF photography to have that immediate feedback?

[Walter Calahan]

Here's my review of the Nikon D200 camera:

http://www.sportsshooter.com/news_story.html?id=1630

Walt

http://www.walterpcalahan.com

[Brian Ellis]

If you're buying it only for the purposes you describe then I don't think there's any reason to buy a dslr. A small, inexpensive point and shoot would better serve your purposes I think. Most of the dslrs with which I'm familiar (Canon and Nikon mainly) are fairly big, heavy cameras that together with their lens(es) I certainly wouldn't want to carry along with my LF equipment. I suppose if someone forced me to buy a dslr for your purposes I'd probably buy the Canon Rebel. It's fairly small for a dslr and with a single lens is relatively inexpensive (about $1000 I think). I'm sure there are other and perhaps better comparable cameras but that's the only small, light dslr with which I'm familiar. But for your purposes I'd look for the smallest, lightest point and shoot I could find, probably something in the $250 range, that had the newer, larger lcd screens.

I don't use my dslr (Canon 5D) as an adjunct to LF, I use it independently as a second camera system. But FWIW, if I did carry it along with my LF system (that would be fun, the 5D and a couple L lenses don't weigh a whole lot less than my 4x5 system) I don't think the immediate feedback would be of great value. Even the newer screens are still quite small so you can't see many of the details in the image. It's also difficult to see the image very clearly when you're in day light. And what you can see isn't necessarily an accurate indication of what the image will look like when printed. When I'm using the 5D I don't use the lcd screen for immediate feedback about the composition, I only use it to look at the histogram and then only if I have some doubt about the exposure. But others here who actually do use a digital camera for the purposes you describe might have different and better thoughts.

[Jack Flesher]

FWIW, I used to carry a Canon 1Ds2 and assortment of my best lenses with me on my LF expeditions -- emphasis on "used to". The problem for me was if the light wasn't perfect, I'd grab the DSLR, take a snap and move on. Or I'd grab the DSLR for "conveninece" when walking a mile up the trail to see what was there, telling myself I could always go back to the car and grab the view cam if it was "worth it". As you might imagine, I missed some great LF ops due to magic light "happening" while I was there with my DSLR or I'd moved from a decent spot where I normally would have waited for something to happen at, only to have the something happen a half hour later in an area where there was no subject. Basically having a really good DSLR handy encouraged to be impatient and go search out good images with perfect light instead of setting up on a good subject and waiting for the light.

So then I switched to a smaller Canon 20D with a do-it-all zoom as a snapshot camera. While it still makes quite excellent 11x17's, it's not up to my standards for serious imaging on larger prints. However, I recently picked up a really small 6MP digital P&S and that generates surprisingly good prints up to 8x10 and it is coming along more often than the 20D. The big advantage is I can easily carry that with the view cam outfit wherever I am going. (I have a friend that just upgraded to a 3MP cell phone for the same reason.) I use either kind of like a painter might use a sketch book, making notes for future reference. Offered only FWIW, but this has worked far better for me.

Cheers,

[Frank Petronio]

I've gone back to using a Nikon D70 with small prime lenses - the 24, 35, and 50 - after going up to a D2X and a super zoom (17-55/2.8) and some fancy glass (28/1.4). Now part of that is economics - I hated to tie up $7000 in a camera when I really need the money for tuition and taxes and crap. But - and maybe I am rationalizing abit - the little D70 and small prime combo is the most "Leica-like" combo that I've found in the digital world. At least until the M8 comes out ;)

I use it as a meter too. The P&S cameras are a little funkier to translate into equivilant large format f-stops but with a dSLR I can set the lens to f/16 and ISO to 320 and I can get exposure information in a flash...

I am going to get a D200 soon, which is slightly more robust than the D70, although I can't complain about how the D70s (I've had four over 2.5 years) hold up. I would just like a little more resolution and the better finder and AF of the D200. But I will continue to use the small, cheap primes (the $250 35/2 tested better than the $1600 28/1.4 I had...)

Anyway, I use it all the time and it weighs about 2 lbs... but I no longer carry a Pentax spot. And I use it for more fleeting things and so many opportunities that LF would struggle with.

So go for it IMHO.

[David Luttmann]

My 10D comes with me every time I'm out with the 4x5. I love using it to check lighting and exposure, as well as to grab a quick shot when the lighting is changing quick. I only bring the 24-105L with it now...the 24TSE, 16-35, 50, 85, and 135 were getting to be a bit heavy. Used to bring the 1Ds but I recently had an issue with kicking a tripod leg out and send camera and tripod over a cliff, onto some rocks, and into a creek. Tripod survived....1Ds didn't (the 135 did though....go figure!)

[MJSfoto1956]

When I'm shooting 4x5, I bring my Mamiya 7 as my lightweight "snapshot" camera. Weighs less than a Canon 20d system and delivers lovely 6x7 negatives. (I also bring along a tiny Sony P200 digicam for family "snapshots" while on holiday).

So all told, I tend to bring 3 cameras with me when traveling: 4x5 for formal studies, 6x7 for quicker/looser shots, and a digicam to capture those informal moments.

[Jack Flesher]

I bring my Mamiya 7

Interesting J Michael... I have been considering selling my Mamiya 7ii since I hardly use it anymore. Admittedly I love the RF framing style, so maybe I should give it another chance...

[Dominique Labrosse]

My dSLR is a D70s. The reasons being, that I was already invested in Nikon gear and it fit the price point. However, I have never really thought to bring it with me when I use the 4x5. I guess if I'm throwing gear in the car it's just one more bag. However, I'm afraid that I'll get lazy and just use the dSLR instead of the Graphic View, so we'll see. Though squeezing off a few frames with the D70s is alot cheaper than Polaroid.

Frank, we have a D200 at work, while it is definitely a more professional tool than the D70s please note that it is heavier. If you're looking simply for more pixels the new D80 might be a better choice for as it is physically smaller than the D70s. I agree that the primes are great though. My favorite lens on the dSLR is my old 55 Micro that I had ai'ed by a local camera shop.

[Howard Slavitt]

I actually sold my view camera last year -- a Horseman 6 x 9 -- for various reasons (including that with my young son I found I wasn't using it) and purchased a Canon 5D -- heresy on this forum. :) While not a view camera, I am using it in a way that accomodates the contemplative style I most liked about using a view camera, and that still gives me the advantages of digital. I am using only prime lenses. One of them is a Canon 45mm tilt shift lens, which is also wonderful for flat stitching panoramas, yielding a fov similar to a Hasselblad xpan normal lens. . . . The 24mm tilt shift is next on my list. I also have some very small lenses that I love using -- including a wonderful Olympus 18mm f3.5 rectilinear lens that has almost no distortion and weighs about 8 ounces. Easy to use with an adapter. I get great metering using stop down metering. I also have a Canon EE-S screen installed, which was modified with Maxwell's hi lux treatment, and is a pleasure to use. I just ordered a 28mm Nikon f2.8 AIS prime, that I'm waiting to get. It's reputed to have NO distortion, and also to be sharp edge to edge. I have an ultra light tripod that is plenty sturdy for my lens setup. Unless travelling somewhere far, I typically only take 1 or 2 lenses with me. Small Canon primes I use and also like, or love, depending on which one, include the 24mm f2.8, 35mm f2.0, and 50mm f2.5 macro. I've put black gaffer tape around all insignas on the cameras, and use Tamron lens caps (they're better than the Canon ones and also lower profile), so the camera is unassuming. . . . If you want small and light with primes, I'd also look at the new Pentax that is supposed to be announced at Photokina -- it apparently will be 10 megapixels, and has in camera image stabilization. Pentax makes some really tiny pancake primes for the 1.6x sensor, including a just announced 21mm. Pentax also has some 6 megapixel cameras out now that are very inexpensive and will also use the pancake primes.

[Christoforos Giatzakis]

I almost always take my Canon 5D and two lenses along (an Olympus 21mm and a Zeiss 35mm). These two lenses are light and compact. I use the 5D to scout an area for potential shots and shoot when I don't have time to set the view camera up.

[Stephen Willard]

I do not use a DSLR, but rather a digital point and shoot (DPS). It is a Sony and actually writes to a small CD, and I shoot it 1.2 mp mode. I use the camera exclusively for constructing compositions in the field and for creating a prototype image to be entered into a database for each composition I create. In most cases I have to revisit the composition repeatedly until the light is right. Here are the features I like about this camera:

1. At the time I bought this camera it had the largest LCD (2.75") on the market. This provided an image in the field that was plausible to review.

2. Even several years later, it still has the best LCD hood on the market. The hood is like the reflex viewing hoods used for LF cameras. I can view the LCD in any lighting conditions and see exactly what I did. This may not seem like a big deal, but in the high alpine of Colorado it can be extremely bright without any trees or shade. Without this hood I would consider the camera useless for my purpose.

3. It has a numerical zoom scale and detail exposure information on the LCD as you zoom. I do not use the exposure information, but I could should I desire. I do use the zoom scale to determine the LF lens to use. I have made chart which allows me quickly pick the correct lens to use to very closely duplicate composition on DPS based on the zoom scale.

The DPS I use allows me to very quickly hone in on a composition within minutes. Before I used to Polaroid film to get there. Using Polaroid film could take me hours to do what I can now do in minutes. I still do use Polaroid on occasions to fine tune the composition, but its the DPS that gets me there.

Hopefully these considerations may be of some help to you.

[Ron Marshall]

Either the Nikon D80 or the Canon Rebel 400. Both are light with 10 MP sensors and have a wide range of available lenses.

[Harley Goldman]

I take my 5d along with me. I use it when conditions are not ideal, I want to experiment a lot (and it does not cost $5 per shutter release) and just to goof around. I had the 5d with me at Zabriskie Pt last winter. The wind was howling that morning, so I left the 4x5 in the car. I ended up getting a great shot with the 5d. It made a beautiful 16x20 print. I never would have been able to get that shot with the 4x5, too much wind.

I chose the 5d because it yields a file big enough for a nice 16x20, so if I don't have the 4x5 with me, at least I can make good use of the image. The full frame also makes a big difference with wide angle lenses (and image quality).

For me, each system is a tool and has its place.

[Don Miller]

I've found that bring multiple system can be a distraction. But it's probably worth trying to see if it works for you.

[Armin Seeholzer]

I'm very happy with my Fuji S3 most contrast handling machine!
Not the fastest but the best JPG'S!
Very intuitive to use not so haevy and I can use all my Nikkors!
MFG Armin

[Frank Petronio]

I was just at Best Buy and handled the new Sony Alpha (based on the Konica Minolta). It felt really plasticy and the controls were not intuitive, more like a Canon Rebel than anything else. But they had a slot and price tag waiting for the Nikon D80 and the sales person said they had been expecting them today and hopefully actually getting them in just a couple of days. It is really instructive to handle the actual cameras, there is a huge difference in build quality even at the same price point.

I was also looking for a tiny $2-300 compact for a family member but they all blended together as being more alike than different. So far I have yet to find one with simple controls that match the quality of the simple images I'd expect to use those cameras for. Instead they have a dozen micro buttons and a million options, just to make a crappy snapshot. Geez....

[Jack Flesher]

So far I have yet to find one with simple controls that match the quality of the simple images I'd expect to use those cameras for. Instead they have a dozen micro buttons and a million options, just to make a crappy snapshot. Geez....

Frank, take a look at the Leica C-Lux 1. It is a dressed-up Panasonic and you can get the Panasonic version for about half the price of the Leica. I picked one up and have printed remarkable 8x10's from the jpegs -- though I think that is the practical limit. It has great color and exposure right out of the camera. Best of all, I simply turn it on, point and shoot -- don't set a thing. It is tiny and fits in my shirt pocket. Oh yes, it has image stabilization built in too!

Cheers,

[Frank Petronio]

Hey Jack - thanks. Based on your advice and the dpreview.com review, I just bought one. $330 for the Panasonic with a 1 GB card and a spare battery - hard to beat.

Now to decide between a D80 or D200... or maybe the Pentax that gets released soon?

[Al Seyle]

I take my 5d along with me. I use it when conditions are not ideal, I want to experiment a lot (and it does not cost $5 per shutter release) and just to goof around. I had the 5d with me at Zabriskie Pt last winter. The wind was howling that morning, so I left the 4x5 in the car. I ended up getting a great shot with the 5d. It made a beautiful 16x20 print. I never would have been able to get that shot with the 4x5, too much wind.

I chose the 5d because it yields a file big enough for a nice 16x20, so if I don't have the 4x5 with me, at least I can make good use of the image. The full frame also makes a big difference with wide angle lenses (and image quality).

For me, each system is a tool and has its place.

Harley:
Please elaborate on file size and type and printer if you would. I'm not sold that 1620s are realistic with these dslrs. Thanks.

BTW, is there a website that allows downloads for comparison? --ie, how does the file from a 10mp dslr compare to a 4990 scan of 4x5?

[Marko]

It is really instructive to handle the actual cameras, there is a huge difference in build quality even at the same price point.

You're absolutely right. At this point of technology delopment, any dslr with raw capability will yield great shots. They also have very comparable resolutions and other capabilities. What really sets them apart are handling, lenses (and other accessories) available and built-in software.

I was just recently shopping for a new dslr myself, and being invested in Canon already, thought I would have to decide between 30d and 5d. But after handling all of the Canons my local camera shop had, I walked away with Rebel XT (the 8MP one).

What I needed the most was a walkaround and travel camera and Rebel proved to be wonderfully light and yet still very capable. I bought it with 17-85 EF-S. Not the top lens, but very decent for the purpose, has IS and, most important of all, is very useful as the single lens.

Yes, the whole kit feels a little plasticky, it is positively tiny for my hands, and I might as well end up with a bigger one in a few months. But it handles suprisingly well, it's so light it's easy to forget it's in the bag and there's no discernible difference in quality compared to 30d. It is going to make a great IR camera some day, but until then it's serving it's purpose very nicely and on the budget.

[Harley Goldman]

Al,

I shoot everything in RAW. Don't remember the file size, but I usually convert in Adobe using the highest resolution. I print on an Epson 4800, Moab Entrada Natural matte paper.

I generally get my 4x5 chromes drum scanned for printing keepers. While the prints from the 5D do not have quite the detail I get from the chromes, nonetheless I am quite happy with the prints. They look damn nice.

[roteague]

You're absolutely right. At this point of technology delopment, any dslr with raw capability will yield great shots.

One of the great things about the DSLR, is it makes the prices of cameras that were previously too expensive, like the Nikon F5 much more affordable. Now, if only the price of the Nikon F6 would drop a bit - that is my next small camera purchase.

[phil sweeney]

Here's my review of the Nikon D200 camera:

http://www.sportsshooter.com/news_story.html?id=1630

Walt

http://www.walterpcalahan.com
Hi Walter,

I read your review. I am looking into a DSLR. I do not own a digital camera. I'd like to do some copy work with a DSLR. I've been considering this to capture my 7 x 17 contact prints for web display. I have a really big copy stand. I may just do 4 x 5 copying as I can scan 4 x 5s. But the idea of "quick capture" is inviting.

I guess I did not understand why the D100 was a disappointment? For my purposes I thought the D100 or D70 might do the job? It looks like most of these cameras weigh the same (or close). Can you expound further on the negative details of the D100 and others?

thanks

phil

[Leonard Evens]

I had an Olympus consumer grade digital camera which I used primarily for taking pictures of family and friends or when I needed a quick image. I also used it to scout out potential pictures for my 4 x 5 view camera. But I found the Olympus inadequate for its primary purpose, particularly when used indoors at family occasions, so I upgraded to a Nikon D70. I find that much more usable for such purposes because it is a true SLR and because of the great choice of lenses and accessories such as external flash. I now use it also for scouting out scenes for my 4 x 5, and it works better for that purpose too. I usually carry the small Olympus in my view camera kit and use it by taking a quick picture of a gray card in order to help later with color balance. I could use the Nikon for that purpose, but is is quite a bit larger and heavier.

There are some limitations to using a digital camera to scout out scenes. Aspect ratio differences, lack of rise, and fewer choices for equivalent focal lengths make it difficult to frame a scene as you would with a view camera. But you can still get some useful information about point of view, lighting, and other matters, and it is pretty quick. Also, in a pinch, I can produce a fairly decent picture with my D70 when in a hurry.