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Curt Palm
25-Aug-2006, 10:16
I have a Nikon 150mm lens which I did one of those amazingly dumb things and let it and my camera fall into a creek when I was backpacking a couple of weeks ago. The lens was underwater for a couple of seconds and I now know firsthand that shutters are not waterproof.
I unscrewed the lens elements and dried them with a lens cloth and when I moved the shutter speed dial, it sounded bad, so I put the lens away and didn't use it the rest of the trip.
I took the lens to get a CLA as soon as I got home and it looks like the shutter will be OK.

Is there any thing I could/should have done to the shutter immediately after retrieving it from the water to increase its chance of survival?

paulr
25-Aug-2006, 10:24
i'd check with a technician before taking my advice ... but what i've heard is that the best thing is to leave it in the water. pack it out in a ziplock bag full of water. ideally replace the creek water with the cleanest water you can get your hands on.

the idea is that metal will corrode a lot more slowly when immersed than it will when you take it out and let it dry while exposed to the air.

Walter Calahan
25-Aug-2006, 10:26
Freshwater isn't necessarily a lens or shutter killer. Take it to a top-notch repair technician.

Saltwater is the kiss of death.

Hiro
25-Aug-2006, 12:16
leave it in the water.
I've heard that, too, particularly after the lens or camera swam in the salt water.

I think the situation is similar to what you do after shooting in the rain. In addition to what you did, the rice-in-a-sock method mentioned by Keith S. Walklet in the following thread may improve the prognosis:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=17584

Donald Qualls
25-Aug-2006, 12:39
As above -- if fresh water, it's not necessarily that bad, but if the original dunk was salt, the best you can do is to rinse the shutter several times in the cleanest fresh water you can get quickly (distilled is ideal) and then store it in a zipper bag of that same clean water, until an ASAP CLA. Even salt water won't destroy a mechanical shutter instantly, but it doesn't take long for corrosion to start, and it goes faster if there's a concentration differential (as when the water is evaporating). So, dilute the salt as much as possible, as quickly as possible, and then keep it immersed in the cleanest possible water to prevent formation of what corrosion chemists call "concentration cells" (which cause electrolysis without needing dissimilar metals).

If you have to do the CLA yourself, replacing the distilled water with progressively higher strengths of isopropyl alcohol (10% steps is conventional), until you reach at least 91%, followed by mixing the isopropyl with progressively higher concentrations of lighter fluid until you have the shutter immersed in pure lighter fluid, would be the method of getting it fully dried out without permitting concentration cell corrosion. Taken from there, the rest of the CLA would probably just amount to drying out the lighter fluid and relubricating the points that actually need lubrication, with the correct type oil or grease.

Now, if it's an electronic shutter with the battery in, five minutes in salt water will total it, and not much longer in fresh water. If an electronic device goes into a creek, pull the battery and then do the fresh water rinse and store, but it's far less likely to be salvageable...

Ron Marshall
25-Aug-2006, 12:50
As above, but if travelling, make sure the storage container is completely full of fresh water, otherwise shaking will oxygenate the water and increase corrosion.

robc
25-Aug-2006, 15:10
been there. done that. Only it was salt water in my case. The lens was fine. I flushed the shutter out with tap water when I got home and all seemed OK for a while. But then corrosion set in and those fine springs don't like that. The cocking return spring finally broke and the x-sync terminal doesn't work anymore. A later check revealed lots of inner corrosion. Have now replaced it as repair was likely to cost as much as new one.

So I guess that if you don't get it seen to immediately, then you can expect it to degrade over time although since it was fresh water, maybe not as qucikly as mine did.

Daniel Geiger
25-Aug-2006, 17:31
For the shutter, you may also try to remove the water by washing it two three times in high percentage ethanol/rubbing alcohol. Should not attack the paint, and should not dissolve grease either. Rubbing alcohol is about 95-97% ethanol and has some additives the prevents you from drinking it, but is booze-tax free. I think you can usually get 100% EtOH at the pharmacy, but you pay booze-tax.

Then you can let it air-dry, possibly in the sun/heat to speed things up. EtOH evaporates much faster than water.

Not sure I'd do that with the lenses because of the coatings.

Daniel

Bruce Barlow
25-Aug-2006, 18:01
Richard Ritter describes a method of drying out a shutter using Minute Rice and plastic bags in his DVD on CAmera Repair in the Field. Useful for fresh water. Salt water is another issue.

John Bowen
26-Aug-2006, 03:58
Yes, Richard Ritter's DVD on Camera Repair in the Field is worth it's weight in Gold! Every LF field photographer should own a copy.

Just my 2 cents,

John

400d
28-Aug-2006, 19:29
The silica gel desiccant is more effective than rice, but of course rice is so much more cheaper.

400d
28-Aug-2006, 19:39
Then you can let it air-dry, possibly in the sun/heat to speed things up. EtOH evaporates much faster than water.
I dunno about the sun part. If there is corrison inside, and you place it under heat, good lord, you have the awesome elements of rusting-oxygen, water, and heat, you can SPEED things up for sure! Not to mention that the heat can melt the lub and leave it even messier inside.
Just common sense, if I dip my stuff into water, of course the first thing I would do is dry the outside and leave it in a dry condition, and send it to tech ASAP. The longer you wait, the worse it get. Except you are a tech yourself, and the only real way to solve it is to disassemble to whole thing and clean out all the lub and re-lub.

Vick Vickery
28-Aug-2006, 20:37
I musta been really lucky...had a Schneider tele-xenar 240mm in dial-compur go under Katrina water a year ago...unscrewed the cells and set them aside (no water inside!), shook out the shutter good and set it aside to dry, and its worked fine ever since! I really didn't expect to save it without a major overhaul.

Donald Qualls
30-Aug-2006, 19:47
Vick, the problem is that you might well have springs or non-contact areas already rusting (probably do, given the "purity" of the water that likely affected your area). A spring that's rusty will get weaker over time, as the rust reduces the diameter and it takes a permanent set where it's thinned. A part that has rust where it doesn't contact other parts will slowly become more covered, pitted, etc. -- until the rust finds its way into the contact area and something gets gritty. And rust can flake off parts and act like sand in the works.

Do yourself a favor and get that overhaul. If the glass looks okay, it probably is okay, but the same is not true of the mechanics. Hopefully, it's not too late -- a dial-set Compur isn't one where you can just pay for parts to replace damaged ones...

Curt Palm
31-Aug-2006, 21:14
Thanks for all the advice.
Got the lens back today from CLA and it is now back in fine shape. There was some corrosion in the shutter, but it cleaned up fine. The repair tech. said the different kinds of metal in various shutter parts have different dielectric constants and water leads to corrosion between the parts.
Also got the DVD camera repair in the field today. very fast shipping on that.

Donald Qualls
2-Sep-2006, 19:26
TThe repair tech. said the different kinds of metal in various shutter parts have different dielectric constants and water leads to corrosion between the parts.

Exactly. This is why it's crucial to get the shutter into the *cleanest* possible water ASAP, and keep it wet (so you don't get evaporation concentrating solution) until you can get the CLA.

BTW, that's the same advice they give for an outboard motor that falls off the transom into salt water... ;)

Paul Coppin
3-Sep-2006, 06:39
For the shutter, you may also try to remove the water by washing it two three times in high percentage ethanol/rubbing alcohol. Should not attack the paint, and should not dissolve grease either. Rubbing alcohol is about 95-97% ethanol and has some additives the prevents you from drinking it, but is booze-tax free. I think you can usually get 100% EtOH at the pharmacy, but you pay booze-tax.

Then you can let it air-dry, possibly in the sun/heat to speed things up. EtOH evaporates much faster than water.

Not sure I'd do that with the lenses because of the coatings.

Daniel


Rubbing alcohol is NOT ethanol, its propanol, or more commonly known as isopropyl alcohol. Propanol is the next in the alcohol series, doesn't evaporate quite as fast as ethanol, and while miscible in water, not quite as effective as ethanol in picking up water, slightly less agressive solvent action.
I would simply use methanol or methyl hydrate from your local hardware store to pick up the water. Springs and the like would benefit after by a light soak with something like WD40 or a very fine sewing machine oil, but you have to be careful to soak up as much excess silicon oil as possible, so as not to leave too much oil behind. Purpose of the oil is to both lubricate and exclude air from the springs.

All the glass should need is a very thorough rinsing with clear, clean fresh water and then sponged dry, and placed in a warm, but not hot, place with good airflow to dry.