*yawn* yet another newbie, though i ask more stupid questions

[Inverse]

Hello all

I'm new to this game, and don't have a LF camera yet (currently shooting 35mm rangefinder & 6x6 TLR). However, I want one...

I don't have much in the way of cash - god damn those banks for wanting me to pay student loans back! - so wanting to acquire something that is cheap but still decent. I realise this is potentially something of an oxymoron, or i'm a moron for thinking that.

Hence, do I get a $400 crown graphic from a seller on ebay, or look around for something else?

I'm not dying to get a field camera, as most of what I do (with the LF at least) will be inside... One thing I do want is the capacity to use polaroid film, so I guess it will need to take that back...

Comments/suggestions/insults/witty retorts all welcome.

Cheers in advance

G

[Kevin Crisp]

Cheap but still decent is a realistic goal. What do you want to take photos of? Are you wanting to hike long distances with the camera, use it indoors only, or something else? Tell us what you want to do and you can probably do it within budget. $400, by the way, is steep for a Crown Graphic unless it has an unusual lens.

[Inverse]

Ah sorry.... Well i'm interested in shooting outdoors but not necessarily with the LF.

I think therefore that I'd prefer to be doing indoor work with it - probably portraits & Nudes. I hope that helps.

I'm quite fearful of being a niave buyer, so I wanted to get someone's opinion before taking the plunge on the graphic.

[Sheldon N]

I'm sure there's lots of suggestions out there for field camera's vs. monorails, etc, so a little reading up isn't a bad idea to make sure you get what you want.

I do happen to have some gear for sale if you're interested that sounds like it might suit your needs. Some of it I haven't gotten around to posting in the FS forum yet, one of the lenses is already there.

I could sell you my Linhof Kardan Color 4x5 monorail (perfect bellows condition), Schneider Symmar-S 135mm f/5.6 MC lens, 3 regular film holders, Polaroid 545i back, darkcloth, and a Sinar hard carrying case for $450 plus shipping. It would probably be worth closer to $600 if I parted it out on Ebay, but I'd be glad to help you get a starting hand. Others can comment if they think this is the right gear for you or a fair price. PM me if interested.

FWIW, I went with a field camera (Wista DX) after starting with a monorail, since I enjoy hiking and the smaller size/lighter weight was important to me.

Hope this helps!

[Ralph Barker]

FWIW, I agree with Kevin regarding a $400 price tag on a Crown Graphic, although they seem to be trending up of late. $250 to $350 would be a more appropriate price range for a Crown, I think, depending on condition and the lens included.

For mostly-studio use, there are a variety of older monorails that can often be had within the $250-$350 range. Occasionally, that might even include an entry-level lens. Look for Calumet, Orbit, etc. Recognize, however, that most of these cameras will have limited versatility, hence their low price. But, at that end of the price spectrum, you can usually sell the camera for almost the same price if you decide to upgrade later.

There is also a wealth of information in the archives (via the search function), and in the various articles on the LF Home Page (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/).

[Inverse]

PM'd you... would welcome the opinion of others, as invited!

Ralph - thanks. I'll have a better look when I'm not at work :-)

[Frank Petronio]

Sheldon's offer is a steal. The Linhof is a heavier metal beast so save some money for a larger tripod. However, for indoor and roadside stuff it is all the camera you may ever need, as they are extremely well made and versatile.

[Inverse]

Cheers Frank. Actually spoke to you this week on another site (MM)...

Will have to look at tripods. Got a Manfroto at the moment so I guess that won't take the strain.

[cyrus]

The battle-ship grey Calument cc400 or cc410 4x5 monorail goes for around $150. It is about as solid as you could want, and has all the movement anyone could possibly need. Its a perfectly fine camera.

Add a lens of your choice (that you can afford) lensboard, and a film holder, and a tripod. You're good to go.

[Frank Petronio]

Hey, get the Linhof to shoot Tiana with ;-)

The other thing is for doing portrait and figure work is that you probably want a longer lens in the 210-300 range and a camera suitable for the longer draw. That rules out the little field cameras and the Crown Graphics (it can be done but it isn't ideal) and points you more towards the older, less expensive monorails. The old Calumets and Orbits are probably the very best value, followed by later model Cambos and Toyos. The vintage Linhofs (and Sinar Fs and Normas, plus vintage Arca-Swiss ABCs) are a little bit more but they are all great values and I would purchase the camera based on individual condition over brand name.

As for the lens, almost anything made in the last 30 years will be fine, again I would look for a modern Copal shutter that is timed right (most recent ones are fine) and any of the big brand names. 210/5.6 lenses are usually the best deal as that is the most popular focal length.

The 135 lens is great for environmental portraits and larger sets, don't discount it, but it is a bit too wide for nice portraiture in the traditional sense.

Note that Polaroid is expensive stuff - a couple $ a pop - so while you may want to use it at first you may also want to develop a work flow that you can afford to maintain. I often use the DSLR as a "semi-Polaroid" and as a meter.

A good changing tent (Calumet changing room for example) or a darkroom is also going to be required for loading film.

[Inverse]

Thanks Frank, you took the question about focal length right out of my mouth (or rather, snatched it from my fingers).

I know polaroids are expensive - I'd certainly want to get used to the camera first before getting stuck in with them.

Would you regard shooting models as difficult with LF cameras (or rather, much more difficult than 35mm / MF)?

[paul stimac]

Normally my vote would be the Calument cc400 too. Dirt cheap, very strong, easy to find on ebay. $100-200 range.

However Sheldon N's deal seems pretty good.

[Ron Marshall]

Sheldon's offer is worthwhile. If you prefer a 210 mm you can always sell the 135.

[Capocheny]

Would you regard shooting models as difficult with LF cameras (or rather, much more difficult than 35mm / MF)?


Inverse,

Sheldon is offering you a really good deal and if I were in your shoes... I'd jump on it before he changes his mind!

Regarding shooting nudes and portraiture with a LF... it will be more challenging than shooting the same subjects with a MF/35mm camera. The models will have to hold their poses a bit longer than if you were using the other formats. But, it certainly can be done! PB magazine has used LF to capture their images for many, many years (8x10 IIRC.)

Cheers

[Inverse]

Really? All I see in their pics is a load of overly-softened digital haze... Perhaps i'm misguided or just plain wrong.

Thanks for the advice everyone though...

[Ron Marshall]

Don't forget that with a 4x5 you will need more illumination than with smaller formats, if you want the same depth of field and don't use a faster film.

[Inverse]

Please tell me more Ron.... I've got a strobe and will get another eventually.... I take it that they are compatable with PC cords?

[Ron Marshall]

For the same DOF with 4x5 you will loose two stops, compared to 6x6.

The flash sync is no problem, but depending on what light modifiers you may use, and of course the distance of the flash head to the subject, you may need a larger pack or monolight.

[Inverse]

right i get you... so it's not the fact that they use more light per se, it's just that inherently they have a much shallow dof. Hence, to increase it, it obviously requires more light when stopping down. Got you... Cheers...

[Ron Marshall]

Just to clarify, actually four stops are lost going from 6x6 to 4x5 in maintaining the same DOF, but only if the same circle of confusion is used in the calculation.

Because the degree of enlargement is usually smaller with 4x5 a larger COF yields a two stop increase. I hope that is somewhat clear.

[Frank Petronio]

If you can shoot people at f/11 to f/16 you have no worries. Just switch to faster 400 ISO film if need be, since the grain is less of an issue with LF.

In fact, I shoot 4x5 wide open all the time. Challenging to focus but fun results when it works.

[Michael Daily]

I used a Calumet 400 for several years. In the studio or on a tripod there is not much it can't do. Remember 4-4x5 sheets =1 roll 35mm film (36x24mmx36mm=36 framesX1X1.5=54sq.in.) Not far off from where 4-4x5s less the blank edges leaves you. That might mean that you should spend as much time composing 4-4x5 shots as a whole roll of 35mm film (or 1-8x10 sheet). LF is much slower, unless you are shooting a press camera with Grafmatics. LF is much more contemplative...
Michael

[Sheldon N]

Well, Inverse should be on his way with a new Linhof and Schneider 135mm here shortly. I'm sure there will be more questions to follow!

Always a pleasure to lend a hand to a fellow photographer.

[Inverse]

Well i certainly appreciate everyone's insights and Sheldon's great offer..... Thanks all..

[Michael Daily]

Great chioce! Enjoy.
Michael