Pyrocat HD vs MC

[Dave Krueger]

I've decided to give Pyrocat a try. I noticed the two versions on Photographer's Formulary, but am not clear about the benefit of each.

From what I gather after looking around on here, MC is an improvement over HD in the sense that it has slightly shorter development times, lower general stain, and no phenidone.

I'm not trying to start a food fight between proponents of the two, but I'm using pyrocat for the first time, so I would be interested in knowing why I would want to start with HD instead of MC.

I would be grateful if someone could explain the benefits of HD over MC?

[Colin Graham]

There's probably a bigger knowledge base to draw from with HD about times and dilutions specific to uses (azo, VC, whatever). But people seem to be pretty excitited about the MC version. I just mixed a new liter batch of HD before I'd heard about MC, otherwise I would mix up some. In any case I plan to try it soon. The only disadvantage to either forumla is that talking about it around here seems to bring about the apocalypse. :-/

[Michael Kadillak]

If you want to ask this question to the inventor of Pyrocat, you are going to have to go to APUG. Sandy no longer monitors or participates on this forum because of continued personal attacks from Jay. APUG bounced Jay for this same activity so at least Sandy can get his message to those interested without this unnecessary distraction.

This venue is becoming less and less relevant IMHO.

[Jay DeFehr]

Dave,

there is no advantage to Pyrocat HD over Gainer's MC version. Both developers do the same thing, but the MC does it much better. Gainer's MC is a modern staining developer formulated to be made up in glycol instead of water, and contains no sulfites, bromides or iodides. It is very similar in concept to the original Hypercat, but Hypercat used phenidone instead of metol, because I didn't know how to dissolve metol in glycol. Gainer's MC is more complicated to mix than Hypercat, due to the metol, which must be mixed with TEA, ascorbic acid and water to make it glycol-soluble. The improved Hypercat contains only catechol, a tiny amount of ascorbic acid, and sodium carbonate, and does not require a secondary reducer. It is much simpler, and sharper than any of the Pyrocats, including Gainer's MC version, and is made by simply adding the catechol and ascorbic acid to room temp glycol and heating with stirring until dissolved, which requires about 125-150F, and a minute or two of stirring. Hypercat stains extremely efficiently and requires far less alkali than the Pyrocats. I use a 20% solution of sodium carbonate as the B solution, at ratios as low as 1:1 for extreme contraction development, or as high as 1:10 for extreme expansion development, with very high image stain and very low fog/general stain throughout that range, and a teaspoonful of sodium sulfite/liter of working solution converts Hypercat to a very active, and very acute non-staining developer, making it extremely versatile.

Pyrocat HD is way down on the list of good staining developers, behind 510-Pyro, Hypercat, Gainer's MC, and others, despite the affection many have for it. Good luck.

Jay

[Colin Graham]

Forgot to mention that HD is very good at EMA/semi-stand development. I havent yet heard about how MC fares at this. I ran some FP4+ yesterday that was shot at a SBR of 13 and it contracts very smoothly while retaining nice local contrast, wonderful sharpness.

[Jay DeFehr]

Colin,

MC is better than HD across the board, including reduced agitation development, producing less fog, more stain, and better sharpness. MC is very similar to Hypercat, with a tiny amount of metol added.

MC/ 10g of catechol contains:

ascorbic acid .8g

metol .05g


Hypercat/ 10g catechol contains:

ascorbic acid .5g


Results from the two developers are practically indistinguishable.

Jay

[lee\c]

yet another pimping from the developer pimp jay d.

who died and made you king?

lee\c

[Dave Krueger]

OK, thanks to all for the comments. I decided to place an order for the MC in glycol so I can compare it to the HD. I can understand someone wanting to stick with a developer they're familiar and comfortable with if the benefits of switching to something else aren't that important for them. Hell, the only reason I'm testing new developers is because I think there's a possibility there have been some new developments in the past 15 years since I started using Tmax RS. LOL!

I also registered over at apug so I can post over there.

[Dave Krueger]

Dave,

there is no advantage to Pyrocat HD over Gainer's MC version. Both developers do the same thing, but the MC does it much better. Gainer's MC is a modern staining developer formulated to be made up in glycol instead of water, and contains no sulfites, bromides or iodides. It is very similar in concept to the original Hypercat, but Hypercat used phenidone instead of metol, because I didn't know how to dissolve metol in glycol. Gainer's MC is more complicated to mix than Hypercat, due to the metol, which must be mixed with TEA, ascorbic acid and water to make it glycol-soluble. The improved Hypercat contains only catechol, a tiny amount of ascorbic acid, and sodium carbonate, and does not require a secondary reducer. It is much simpler, and sharper than any of the Pyrocats, including Gainer's MC version, and is made by simply adding the catechol and ascorbic acid to room temp glycol and heating with stirring until dissolved, which requires about 125-150F, and a minute or two of stirring. Hypercat stains extremely efficiently and requires far less alkali than the Pyrocats. I use a 20% solution of sodium carbonate as the B solution, at ratios as low as 1:1 for extreme contraction development, or as high as 1:10 for extreme expansion development, with very high image stain and very low fog/general stain throughout that range, and a teaspoonful of sodium sulfite/liter of working solution converts Hypercat to a very active, and very acute non-staining developer, making it extremely versatile.

Pyrocat HD is way down on the list of good staining developers, behind 510-Pyro, Hypercat, Gainer's MC, and others, despite the affection many have for it. Good luck.

Jay

Thanks for the info. I'm not a big fan of mixing my own chemicals, but I will read your article on digitaltruth.

[Colin Graham]

I also registered over at apug so I can post over there.

Sandy is a great resource and good about answering all manner of questions. I'm sure you'll like the pyrocat MC.

[Jay DeFehr]

yet another pimping from the developer pimp jay d.

who died and made you king?

lee\c

Is that supposed to be ironic, or was it accidental, and just moronic? Lee, wether you agree or disagree with me, you have to concede that I'm discussing developers, which is the topic if this thread, while you do nothing more constructive than make immature, snide little comments that weren't funny or clever the first dozen times you repeated them, and add nothing of value to the discussion. And, incidentally, Sandy is still King of developer "pimping", and between him and me, is the only one actively marketing one or more of them.


Jay

[Michael Kadillak]

Don't concern yourself about tit for tat Lee. You are a much better man than that. Smile and just - let it go....

See you over at APUG.

Cheers!

[Brian Ellis]

D76 anyone?

[Marko]

Forget banning the Lounge.

Ban Pyro discussions!

Or at least let's have a simple way to have any thread that has anything to do with it ignored. Might make this forum look like a place full of civil adults...

:rolleyes:

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

Other sites using php allow for you to ignore threads. It might be a good idea here as well....


Forget banning the Lounge.

Ban Pyro discussions!

Or at least let's have a simple way to have any thread that has anything to do with it ignored. Might make this forum look like a place full of civil adults...

:rolleyes:

[Marko]

Other sites using php allow for you to ignore threads. It might be a good idea here as well....

That was sarcasm.

I am a firm 1st Amandment believer and you won't ever see me asking for anything or anybody to be banned.

Besides, I like a good circus too much.

;)

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

That was sarcasm.

I am a firm 1st Amandment believer and you won't ever see me asking for anything or anybody to be banned.

Besides, I like a good circus too much.

;)

That is the good thing about the "ignore thread" button, the thread does not disappear, only those who choose not to see it are able to do so, so not infringement on the 1st amendment... :) If you like the circus you are able to enjoy it all you want!.. :D

[David Karp]

This site is not run by the government. We don't have any first amendment rights here.

[Jay DeFehr]

I don't really see what all the fuss is about. So a few people disagree, and the exchanges occasionally get heated, big deal. Are some people so thin-skinned that they can't even witness a disagreement, even a nasty one, without having their delicate constitutions upset? What different worlds we must inhabit.

Jay