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chris_4622
26-Jul-2006, 18:50
Hi, I'm interested in making digital negatives from my 5x7's so I can contact print larger sizes. Is anyone here doing this? Whose process are you following and what kind of results are you obtaining? I'm not interested in scanning and digital printing, though I understand there are those who do this with good results.

chris

Don Bryant
26-Jul-2006, 19:41
Hi, I'm interested in making digital negatives from my 5x7's so I can contact print larger sizes. Is anyone here doing this? Whose process are you following and what kind of results are you obtaining? I'm not interested in scanning and digital printing, though I understand there are those who do this with good results.

chris
Chris,

What process to you wish to use the digital negatives for? Silver gelatin, alt. processes, POP?

How do you wish to make your negatives? Inkjet printer, image setter?

Don Bryant

chris_4622
27-Jul-2006, 04:36
Don,

I plan to contact print on Azo. The only way I was aware of how to make the negatives was using an inkjet printer. I don't know what an image setter is.

I've heard of Dan Burkholder and Mark Nelson for making digital negatives. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with their methods.

thanks,

chris

Brian Ellis
27-Jul-2006, 18:33
Mark Nelson (http://www.precisiondigitalnegatives.com/) has a system for making digital negatives. I've heard him speak and saw some of his 11x14 or so contact prints made from digitally enlarged 35mm negatives. They were pretty impressive.

Don Bryant
27-Jul-2006, 18:48
Chris,

It's been my experience that using inkjet negatives to make prints on silver gelatin papers produce results that I don't find very satisfactory. I assume since you posted your message here on the LF forum you will be working with LF negatives with the expectation that inkjet negatives can produce contact prints with the same fidelity that an actual in camera negative makes.

Azo contact prints made with inkjet negatives have an unacceptable graininess for me. I've used an Epson 1160, 1280 and 2200 to produce negatives and none measure up to my expectations.

The Epson 1800 may be the exception, though I've never tested it.

Image setter negatives are produced on a device that can produce images on real film from digital files and are capable of producing very fine results on silver gelatin though I've never used them due to their expense. You can also have images produced on tranparent RA4 material but I've never seen prints made from that type of output.

Hope this helps,

Don Bryant

Bill_1856
27-Jul-2006, 20:27
Azo sucks. It's green. Its paper is like tissue. It only comes in grade two and three (if you can get it).
Forget Azo. Find yourself a nice enlarging paper and develop it in Amidol or Ansco 130. It'll look 100% better than Azo (if you can get it). Even Weston didn't use Azo, and it was still being made then.

Don Bryant
28-Jul-2006, 06:43
Azo sucks. It's green. Its paper is like tissue. It only comes in grade two and three (if you can get it).
Forget Azo. Find yourself a nice enlarging paper and develop it in Amidol or Ansco 130. It'll look 100% better than Azo (if you can get it). Even Weston didn't use Azo, and it was still being made then.
I've never seen green Azo, but what does your post have to do with using or making digital negatives?

Don Bryant

Joe Lipka
28-Jul-2006, 07:31
I use digital negatives for making Pt/Pd prints. I think they are successful for the alternative processes because the paper surface texture hides any flaws in the OHP material. If you have a smooth high resolution paper (like a gelatin silver paper) the desktop printer negative flaws will appear on the final print.

A digital negative made from an image setter with very high resolution is indistinguisable to the naked eye from a silver gelatin print made by entirely traditional methods.

added as edit - I have used both Dan Burkholder's method when I used an imagesetter to produce negatives. When I converted to desktop printer negatives, I supplemented Dan's instructions with information from the internet. I have been successful with both methods.

Stop by my web site next week. I am putting together a whole section on "Fun with Platinum Printing."

chris_4622
28-Jul-2006, 13:52
Thanks everyone, it has been very helpful.

phil sweeney
29-Jul-2006, 08:01
Most of my work is with in-camera negatives on AZO.
I suggest forgetting about digital negatives for AZO or other silver gelation papers. The sharpest digital negative for AZO is going to be an imagesetter negative. I have explored most of the linescreen methods. Did not care for halftones. For stochastic methods: I ultimately settled on rastus. It allowed me to produce the sharpest prints with the least noticeable evidence of the linescreen. The problem is it does not work well with an image that has a significant area of similiar tone (e.g., a large sky area). Yes you will be able to see the the linesceen by eye. So it works well with some images but not all.

Ted Chambers
31-Jul-2006, 15:38
I used Mark Nelson's system to make a curve for digital negatives for POP paper. It was time-consuming (mainly because POP is *so* slow), but in the end I'm happy with the curve. I'd recommend it.

The quality of the negatives from my Epson R800 is excellent, but right now my degree of enlargement is low (from 4x5 film negatives to 8x10 digital negatives) so that's more or less to be expected.

You might want to check over on the Azo forum for more information (www.michaelandpaula.com). I think there are people there printing from digital negatives.

Don Bryant
31-Jul-2006, 19:33
I used Mark Nelson's system to make a curve for digital negatives for POP paper. It was time-consuming (mainly because POP is *so* slow), but in the end I'm happy with the curve. I'd recommend it.

The quality of the negatives from my Epson R800 is excellent, but right now my degree of enlargement is low (from 4x5 film negatives to 8x10 digital negatives) so that's more or less to be expected.

You might want to check over on the Azo forum for more information (www.michaelandpaula.com). I think there are people there printing from digital negatives.
I've seen very little discussion in the AZO forum about printing with digital negatives. The big hurdle is the grain that is imparted by the substrate. I use Mark Nelson's PDN system and it gives one a good set of tools to derive negatives that match the exposure scale of the material used to print on.

As I mentioned before it may be possible to get a better negative for silver gelatin printing using the Epson 1800 or the R200. Unfortunately I have neither one of those printers to test with.

Digital negatives certainly work well for alternative processes, however a precisely crafted digital negative will never have quite the same prescence <sp?> as an in camera negative. But it's a great method for making alt. prints made from digital capture.

I wouldn't hesitate to reccomend Mark's system but just keep in mind what to expect. Image setter, LVT, or laser light negs may provide the best solution for printing on silver gelatin but at a cost.

Don Bryant

chris_4622
1-Aug-2006, 03:39
I wouldn't hesitate to reccomend Mark's system but just keep in mind what to expect. Image setter, LVT, or laser light negs may provide the best solution for printing on silver gelatin but at a cost.

Don Bryant

Don, do you have any idea of the costs associated with image setters?

clay harmon
1-Aug-2006, 07:54
I do quite a few imagesetter negs with Copygraphics in Santa Fe. They are roughly $20-$25 for a 12x16 sized negative.

Don Bryant
1-Aug-2006, 07:58
Don, do you have any idea of the costs associated with image setters?
I'm not exactly sure but probably 10 to 12 dollars a pop, maybe more. Contact Peter Elzey at Copy Graphics in Santa Fe. Peter is very helpful and has a lot of experience with the needs of photographers. You will also need to get a copy of Rastus,
http://photoshop.pluginsworld.com/plugin.php?directory=adobe&software=photoshop&plugin=94

Talk to Peter and he will expalin why.

Don Bryant

clay harmon
1-Aug-2006, 08:03
Peter doesn't work there anymore, but Dwayne can help you. Also, there have been some pretty major noise banding issues with Rastus. Icefields or the built-in bitmap option in Photoshop will give you better results until the bug in the Rastus/Imagesetter workflow is fixed.

Joe Lipka
1-Aug-2006, 10:04
Revere Graphics in Portland, Oregon used to do the imagesetter negatives for the LensWork Special Edition prints. Those prints were silver gelatin from an image setter negative.
I also used Revere for a couple of portfolios of platinum prints.
The results were good. They are nice people to work with.

Don Bryant
1-Aug-2006, 10:47
Peter doesn't work there anymore, but Dwayne can help you. Also, there have been some pretty major noise banding issues with Rastus. Icefields or the built-in bitmap option in Photoshop will give you better results until the bug in the Rastus/Imagesetter workflow is fixed.
Thanks for the update Clay.

Don Bryant