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View Full Version : Wishing to get a start in LF photography



tjhaefner
24-Jul-2006, 17:01
I am a serious amateur photographer who feels that my vision and subject matter may be maligned by my current digital tools. IN many ways, I want to become more deliberate and slow down the pace of what I am doing. I am a little apprehensive in additional investment yet more equipment and returning to the darkroom. Invariably, I would like to insert a little digital into the process (scanning the final negative, perhaps) for the purpose of limiting my darkroom expenses, etc.

Is there someone you can refer me to that might be of assistance in this matter? Is there anyway I could perhaps rent any LF equipment first before buying?

Thanks,

Jack Haefner

The Haefner's
www.jackhaefner.com
www.jackhaefner-photography.com

John Kasaian
24-Jul-2006, 17:40
A good place to start is a copy of Steve Simmons' Using The View Camera

Check with your local college to see if they offer a course that will permit you to use their large format cameras. If not, unless you live in a major (often very major) metropolitan area there would be little chance of renting gear from a local business, though if you have a week end to devote to the cause you might find a workshop where you could get hands on experience.

If niether are likely options, get a Calumet metal monorail with a decent lens and a few holders for very few $$ and go fo it!

Scott Knowles
24-Jul-2006, 19:33
Since I'm only starting in 4x5 (doing 35mm for 37 years) I'll add my experience researching getting into LF photography. Besides Steve Simmons' book, I'll add reading Jim Stone's book "A User's Guide to the View Camera", Leslie Stroebel's "View Camera Technique", and Jack Dykinga's "Large Format Nature Photography" books, talk to a few LF photographers, and visit a store with LF cameras. Nothing beats the voice of experience and hands-on's. Good luck.

On a different topic, your photography Website states, "The images, text and coding on these pages may not be copied to another computer, transmitted, published, reproduced, stored, manipulated, projected, or altered in any way,... without permission of the creator, Jack Haefner.” It's fair to say the images can't be copied and used, except thumbnails, but text must be published to be copyrighted, and Web(html, jv, etc.) coding is open-source (W3C), so both of these are fair game on any Website. Just an observation.

Ron Marshall
24-Jul-2006, 19:39
Jack, have a good read of the front page of this site. There is lots of information. You can also search the site for specific topics.

You can find lots of good used equipment over a wide price range. Midwest Photo Exchange (speak to Jim) and KEH Camera Brokers have a wide selection of good used equipment. So does APUG.

Capocheny
24-Jul-2006, 20:56
Jack, have a good read of the front page of this site. There is lots of information. You can also search the site for specific topics.

You can find lots of good used equipment over a wide price range. Midwest Photo Exchange (speak to Jim) and KEH Camera Brokers have a wide selection of good used equipment. So does APUG.

Jack,

I'll second what Ron has recommended with respects to Jim at Midwest Photo... another very reputable seller is Jeff at Badger Graphics.

I also think you're being prudent to consider renting a kit for a weekend or two before jumping in lock, stock, and barrel! For some people, LF just isn't their bag! :)

Cheers

Saulius
24-Jul-2006, 23:13
Renting a view camera and the necessary equipment is a great idea but if it's your first test run that may not be enough to help you decide if it's right for you. I'd strongly suggest signing up with a college class somewhere if at all possible. That will give you plenty of time to really try it out and have constant guidance as well. If that's not an option then maybe you can find a fellow lf photographer from this forum who lives in your area and may be willing to get together with you a few times. Another idea is you might be able to rent the equipment and take it to a workshop. It would be a shame if you gave up on lf after only giving it a try once or twice and because you found too many hurdles to overcome. Just remember that as there was a learning curve when you first got into photograhy there is also an adjustment to changing to large format. Best of luck and hope you stick with it after taking the plunge! But be warned it can be addictive, time consuming and a drain to the wallet!:D And if you do stick with it this forum and it's members are a great source of knowledge and inspiration.

tjhaefner
25-Jul-2006, 07:24
Thanks to all!! Given the last post, are there any forum members in the Northern Virginia/DC area I could connect with?

Jack Haefner

Ron Marshall
25-Jul-2006, 08:40
Renting is a good idea, but don't decide on LF based on the results from your first twenty or so sheets. Even with a background in photography you may not get much that you are happy with untill you get a feel for LF.

tjhaefner
25-Jul-2006, 18:04
Any resources for renting in the Washington, DC/Northern Virginia area?

Kendrick Pereira
27-Jul-2006, 08:43
Regarding the different topic that Scott Knowles commented on viz: copyright I must say I was most astonished to read, "but text must be published to be copyrighted"!!

Do you really mean to say that if a pirate can get hold of someone's work in progress on, say, a research project or a work of fiction or someone's private correspondence the fact that that text has not been published entitles the pirate to use it as he pleases?!!

I appreciate that copyright, like such related entitlements as patent rights and performance rights, is an entirely artificial entitlement created by legislation of one sort or another and also that I am no lawyer myself but even so the above runs counter to everything I have heard and read of the protection the law as it stands purports to afford authors.

tjhaefner
27-Jul-2006, 17:09
Regarding the different topic that Scott Knowles commented on viz: copyright I must say I was most astonished to read, "but text must be published to be copyrighted"!!

Do you really mean to say that if a pirate can get hold of someone's work in progress on, say, a research project or a work of fiction or someone's private correspondence the fact that that text has not been published entitles the pirate to use it as he pleases?!!

I appreciate that copyright, like such related entitlements as patent rights and performance rights, is an entirely artificial entitlement created by legislation of one sort or another and also that I am no lawyer myself but even so the above runs counter to everything I have heard and read of the protection the law as it stands purports to afford authors.

See http://www.photoattorney.com/ and http://www.copyright.gov/.

Published works and unpublished works are both addressed (and submitted) differently. You snap the shutter=there is an inherent copyright. However, greatest protection (and cost, damage recoupment is only given when you register).

I register my images quarterly--published (web, portfolio, stock, articles) under one cover, unpublished under another.

genecrumpler
28-Jul-2006, 08:10
Have you tried Fuller and D'Albert in Fairfax, VA?
I use to deal with them when I lived in NO.VA, but I moved in 1991, but assume they are still there.

A single week or weekend is not enough time to evalute LF, if you have not used it before. I learned photography with a 4x5 Crown Graphic, so I had some back ground.
I decided to buy in after attending John Sexton's advanced B&W printing workshop.
I bought in as cheaply as I could. I got a Toyo CF45 from KEH in LN- condition and got a 150 used lens also LN-. Then I asked around and found a 4x5 enlarger with a 135 nikkor for $200. I already had a big tripod that I use with my Pentax 6x7. Picked up some used holders and ended up with about $1,110-1,200 invested.

All of these purchases were made after looking at e-bay prices for the equipment. Toyo has increased the price of the CF45 by $200, so if I decide not to pursue 4x5, I should get most or all of my money back. In fact, I got such good deals on the outfit, I think I can turn a profit on the outfit.

Of course I already had a decent darkroom, so I had no additional expenses there. The results were outstanding, so I recently bought a second lens, 300mm.

I still love my Hasselblad!!!

Kendrick Pereira
29-Jul-2006, 06:07
My query was really meant for Scott Knowles and was only meant to refer to what Scott said about text.

I live in Australia [Victoria] and so apparently does Scott [WA]. However I am sure that copyright laws in USA and UK would be basically similar to the Australian equivalent. I'm not sure if copyright in Australia is a state or federal matter but I doubt if that makes much difference as I imagine the laws would be substantially similar in the different states anyway. I believe quoting from published texts is permissable but not such extensive quotations as amount to substantial reproduction.

On one of the web sites you provided links to I see the following included in the very first paragraph.
"Copyright . . . protection is available to both published and unpublished works"
Elsewhere on the same web site I see,
"No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright."

That is what I would have thought.

Of course, just as in any other department of law, enforcement of copyright involves proof of the facts undergirding the claims: and registration of works for which copyright protection is desired should, hopefully, preclude disputes as to what the facts of the case are.

Thanks, tjhaefner

Scott Knowles
29-Jul-2006, 06:55
My query was really meant for Scott Knowles and was only meant to refer to what Scott said about text.

Good point, some unpublished material can be covered under copyright laws. I was refering to text on Web pages that are not part of a manuscript or something similar that can be identified specifically to you as a publication. If for example you write comments, a short essays or something similar, it's not necessarily covered as copyright, that I know, but more covered by plagarism if someone else uses it. But for example, if you write an established column, poems, short stories, essays, research monographs, etc., then you might be covered but in the traditional sense it's still not published, and open to interpretation of ownership.

Examples of this are covered in movie scripts or ideas where studios have been sued for borrowing ideas and even parts of scripts from writers who sent in scripts or wrote unpublished manuscripts well before the actual movie script. The same applies to books in some sense. They can sue but not under copyright laws since their material was not published, but they can sue for plagarism and with some degree of ownership for the idea and/or text.

Publishing on the Web is open to interpretation, and may be more covered as plagarism than copyrights. I'm not totally conversant on the copyright laws, but I was referring to text on Web pages that isn't part of something that can be identified as a publication in the traditional sense. I hope this clarifies what I was trying to say. My point was that simply putting up a Web page does not imply ownership of the content. Images are covered but text is open to interpretation, and code is open source, free to anyone.

But then I'm open to understanding the issue more and better.