Workshop Question...

[Capocheny]

Greetings,

As some of you may know I am organizing a workshop with Per Volquartz in September here in Vancouver, British Columbia in Canada.

Attendees are being asked to pay a very nominal fee of US$75 for participating in the workshop. The entire amount collected from all participants will be turned over to Per for his time and travel expenses.

The subject of personal liability came up and we're wondering how other people who operate workshops take care of this issue from a legal standpoint. The majority of the time will be spent out in the field shooting.

Does anyone here, who operates workshops, have a sample liability release that they wouldn't mind sharing with us?

Thanks in advance for your assistance and advice on this matter. :)

Cheers

[Louie Powell]

I'm going to a workshop this weekend. This will be the 18th workshop that I have gone to. At none of them have I been asked to sign a liability release.

I understand why the question comes up - but I guess the subject bothers me. When I go to a workshop I do so because I want to and with the understanding that I am responsible for myself.

I'm probably a very small minority, and I have been accused of living in the wrong century. And those considerations are only reinforced by the fact that I prefer large format photography with real film and write with a fountain pen. But it seems to me that people seem to be entirely too ready to want someone else to be responsible anytime something goes wrong.

[Capocheny]

I'm going to a workshop this weekend. This will be the 18th workshop that I have gone to. At none of them have I been asked to sign a liability release.

I understand why the question comes up - but I guess the subject bothers me. When I go to a workshop I do so because I want to and with the understanding that I am responsible for myself.

I'm probably a very small minority, and I have been accused of living in the wrong century. And those considerations are only reinforced by the fact that I prefer large format photography with real film and write with a fountain pen. But it seems to me that people seem to be entirely too ready to want someone else to be responsible anytime something goes wrong.


Louie,

As much as I see things your way, the unfortunate reality is that we live in an increasingly litigious society. It's as if people don't want to accept responsibility for their own actions and, therefore, they look around for someone else to foist that on to. A prime example is that case of the coffee drinker who burned themselves with hot coffee while driving... well, they ended up suing the restaurant that sold the coffee to them. The decision came down that the coffee was too hot and they were awarded a huge sized judgement! (Or something along these lines... it was a very publicized case. I'm sure most readers here will get the drift of what I'm saying.)

So, imagine my organizing this workshop with all the good intentions in the world and NOT receiving any stipend on it... an attendee stubs their toe while out in the field taking pictures and decides to sue for whatever reason! Per and I woud be fools NOT to mitigate any possibilities for a legal suit by having a waiver of personal injury agreement signed. It's just common sense. :)

Anyway, that's why we're looking for some help on this end of things...

BTW, I'm like you in that I accept responsibility for my own actions; I also write with fountainpens, AND shoot 95% of the time with real film! :)

Good luck on your workshop this weekend.

Cheers

[Scott Knowles]

That's a fair question and likely as the other poster said, assumed that individuals are responsible for their own actions. Have you contacted folks that routinely run workshops? They must have some standard form every participant signs where the workshop organizers and presenters are held harmless. To the person who has attended workshop, was there a form you signed? And did it cover liability even if it wasn't mentioned? Just a thought because we often sign forms at events assuming it's a standard form and covers things we assume are fair and logical.

I know the Mountaineers, a hiking and climbing, etc. club, requires every member to annually update their liability form with their dues, or they can't be a member or participate in activities. They began this after a situation years ago where they may have been held liable, so they make it clear we as members can't hold the club or any person acting on behalf of the club liable from our own actions during any event or activity. No one objects, so I don't see a clause in a workshop a bad idea.

[Louie Powell]

Scott -

In recent years, enrollment in a workshop has been a matter of a telephone call or perhaps sending an e-mail - haven't actually filled out a form or signed anything (other than a check). But I did check the registration form that I didn't complete for the workshop I will be taking this weekend - and there is no release from liability on it.

Most of the workshops I have taken have been organized by an entity that has some kind of legal existence, usually as a non-profit, and they usually have assets of some kind. I suspect that they take the prudent approach of having some kind of liability insurance coverage.

Three years ago, however, I did participate in a workshop organized by a couple of individuals. Some of the sessions were held at the home of one of the organizers, while others were held at a college, a cooperative arts center and a church hall. Participants were not required to sign liability releases for the workshop or for any of the facilities.

The point of my initial post is that while I agree that it might be a wise thing to do in this crazy world, it is not typical of photographic workshops.

[Ben Crane]

I did go to a workshop where at the beginning we were asked to sign a form. It was something pretty basic saying we would be outside and we are aware of the dangers, responsible for our actions, etc. I'm not sure how much this actually limited their liability though. If a serious injury or death results from your negligence I imagine the waiver probably won't be worth much.

Ultimately I think most people are reasonable including those who are judges and serve on juries so frivolous lawsuits are rare. When someone does win a big settlement on something that sounds frivolous it does tend to get a lot of press. What doesn't get a lot of press is suits that are thrown out of court, reduced on appeal, etc. Often some key details of the case are left out of the soundbytes reported by press because they make the story less sensational.

I hope fear of liability won't keep you or others from putting on workshops or otherwise living their lives. I attended one of Per's Joshua Tree workshops a couple years ago and very much enjoyed it.

[matthew blais]

THere's several on-line legal form sites.

A quick search on google got me this one below. Some need to be modified a bit, but more searching and you should find pretty much what you need. Also, perhaps a local office supply place will have some basic forms.

http://www.findlegalforms.com/xcart/customer/product.php?productid=28752

[Michael Gordon]

Waivers are a fact of life anymore, and I've signed them for many activities beyond photography. I would not assume that a liability waiver will protect you from unscrupulous clients or lawyers.

Let me know if you're still needing samples. I'll be glad to email mine.

[Greg Miller]

I think my first priority would be getting a good liability insurance policy in place.

[Brian Ellis]

I've attended at least 15 workshops and never been asked to sign a release, though I'd be happy to do so if asked. I've always kind of wondered why workshops don't make that a standard practice considering the risky field trips some of them involve. They may or may not protect you but they at least provide an additional argument your lawyer can use to defend you if you're sued.

[Ted Harris]

1) No waiver or liability policy will protect you from your own negligence.

2) For best protection and general piece of mind get a basic business owner's policy. I have no idea what it would cost you in Canada but in the US you are looking at an annual cost of around $350 - 400 for excellent umbrella coverage, including liability.

Caveat: I am neither a lawyer nor an insurance expert .... just a photographer who carries such insurance.

[Jim Noel]

Ted beat me to the answer. Every workshop I have attended has had a liability policy to cover them, and the location where they intend to photograph, in case of an accident. I believe each National Park with which I am familiar requires a policy to protect the park in these cases.

When an accident happens, and money is involved, even close friends become litigants.

I believe it would be very unwise to hold a workshop without such a policy.

[Michael Gordon]

I believe each National Park with which I am familiar requires a policy to protect the park in these cases.

Yep. You cannot get a permit to conduct commerical workshops on any federal land (NP's, NM's, National Forest's, etc) without holding a liability policy (generally to the tune of a cool million).

[Robert Skeoch]

Hi Henry,

Maybe this will be of use to you. Don't call it a workshop... just a gathering of photographers. Don't charge for the workshop... although a materials fee of say $75 each would be reasonable.

Although the "gathering" is in Canada it wouldn't supprise me if our parks department has implemented some "group insurance policy" similar to the USA. In that case I doubt that you would need anything for a group of photographers out for the day... which is very different than a "Commercial Fee Based Workshop".

Just an idea.

Rob
www.bigcameraworkshops.com

[Capocheny]

Greetings,

Thank you all for your input... I believe we're starting to get a handle on the legal end of this workshop.

You'd think it would be a fairly straightforward kind of thing... but, alas, it sure isn't.

Thanks for your contributions.

Cheers

[jackies]

I work with alot of attorneys and have asked them this question. Do you need a release from participants. They just laugh and say yes it is good to have one but it really doesn't protect you. They feel that they could still sue for liability. They tell me that they just laugh under their breath and sign it anyway.

You might want to have liability insurance. Just a thought.

Good luck
Jackie

[Hans Berkhout]

HDC, I missed any previous info- when/where are you and Per planning this get together?

tx.

[Capocheny]

HDC, I missed any previous info- when/where are you and Per planning this get together?

tx.

Hi Hans,

If you check on the APUG forum under "Workshops".... Per has posted a note on the workshop.

To summarize, it's to be held in Vancouver, BC on September 15, 16, 17 for session 1. Session 2 is to be held on Sept 18, 19, and 20.

It's going to be a great workshop! :)

Cheers