LF/digital back advice for beginner please

[foto-z]

Hello all, I just joined the forum and hope to learn something about view cameras.

I might be buying a Phase One digital back and I'm rather interested in the possibility of using this on a view camera, and this has re-ignited my interest. The fact that every focal length automatically includes tilt and shift is very appealing. It may even become my main camera if all goes well!

I hope you don't mind setting me straight on a few basics:

1) the Phase One sensor is approx 645 size, so any additional size would just lead to the camera being unnecessarily large, heavy and maybe also expensive, correct? Should I be going for a 6x9cm view camera or 4" x 5" or something else?

2) Are the lenses from producers such as Rodenstock, Sinar, Schneider all useable on all the cameras? It seems that the lenses are just mounted in a blank front plate that could be adapted to fit any camera.

3) How does the camera limit the max focal length which will work? I don't expect to use more than 250mm focal length. Am I likely to be limited?

4) It seems I am dependent on Phase One for an adapter for various cameras, or am I? If the back has a Hasselblad V mount then it could of course fit any adapter which takes a Hass film back.

5) What is an 'electronic shutter' which I see mentioned when discussing some lenses? I have played with a Cambo WS with a Schneider XL lens (iirc) and a P45 back. I seem to remember I had to cock that lens manually each time. How is an electronic shutter different to operate and what is the benefit? Regardless I assume all these cameras depend on lenses with built-in shutters.

6) What is the widest angle rectilinear lens available for these types of cameras?

[Eric Leppanen]

Here are some general information sources:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/digital-view.shtml

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/back-testing.shtml

http://www.prophotohome.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=35

[Gordon Moat]

Maybe you should look into the Rollei Xact or similar Horseman system. Other options would be a Silvestri or ALPA. The area is smaller than 6x4.5, so really short lenses might be more useful than longer lenses, depending upon what you intend to photograph.

There are a few companies making custom stitching backs for large format cameras and medium format digital backs. Regular type adatpers are made by Kapture Group and other companies. A machinist in a large city might be able to make something custom for near the same cost as you just buying an item, though image plane alignment might be an issue.

Considering the small area, ground glass focus technique might not be that great. A small finder like for a Hasselblad, or even some sort of prism finder might be easier. Shorter focal length lenses than large format might also mean that tilt and swing are less useful than shift. Some cameras only do shift, like the ALPA, and depending upon what you are shooting might work better.

Do lots of searching and lots of reading. Also visit PDN Forums, since a few people there use these systems. You might also consider a dedicated 645 medium format camera instead, possibly using a tilt and shift lens; such a combination might be easier to work. The cost of the PhaseOne is way beyond what you will spend on bodies and lenses, though buying smart will leave more room for profits.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat

[foto-z]

Here are some general information sources:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/digital-view.shtml

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/back-testing.shtml

http://www.prophotohome.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=35

Thanks, I had seen links 2 and 3 before but not #1, which was very interesting. It helped to answer a few questions, but not all :)

[foto-z]

Maybe you should look into the Rollei Xact or similar Horseman system. Other options would be a Silvestri or ALPA. The area is smaller than 6x4.5, so really short lenses might be more useful than longer lenses, depending upon what you intend to photograph.

There are a few companies making custom stitching backs for large format cameras and medium format digital backs. Regular type adatpers are made by Kapture Group and other companies. A machinist in a large city might be able to make something custom for near the same cost as you just buying an item, though image plane alignment might be an issue.

Considering the small area, ground glass focus technique might not be that great. A small finder like for a Hasselblad, or even some sort of prism finder might be easier. Shorter focal length lenses than large format might also mean that tilt and swing are less useful than shift. Some cameras only do shift, like the ALPA, and depending upon what you are shooting might work better.

Do lots of searching and lots of reading. Also visit PDN Forums, since a few people there use these systems. You might also consider a dedicated 645 medium format camera instead, possibly using a tilt and shift lens; such a combination might be easier to work. The cost of the PhaseOne is way beyond what you will spend on bodies and lenses, though buying smart will leave more room for profits.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat

Thanks, Gordon, I'll look into those options. Of course I am looking into the medium format cameras too, but none of them have a significant range of movements, if at all. Convenient and flexible, yes, but perhaps sacrificing too much image quality? I honestly can't tell what will be right for me.

The Linhof M679cs which was the subject of one of the links above looks pretty compact. I would be hapy to hike anywhere with that so that seems like an excellent starting point, without knowing the price yet :)

[mark1958a]

Foto Z

First I want to say that I was visiting Tallin about 1.5 years ago. I was at a meeting in Tampere, Finland and got bored there and took a train to Helsinki and then the boat ride over. I stayed overnight. I took some photos but had limited time. People were very friendly and prices were good there.

I have both the rollei X act 2 and a hasselblad H2, both which use the aptus 65 digital back. I am still learning but while the MF is much more compact and easy to carry around, the view camera offers a lot of advantages for the reasons you mentioned. I looked into the Linhof but the prices were just too much for me. The rollei is pretty decent in many ways. THe limitation is that the accessories are not as easy to come by but I think Rollei is more popular in Europe. I do have a dealer in the USA that can usually get what I need. Nonetheless, this camera handles 35mm to 210mm lenses well. I have an extension tube that allows me to do some nice macro work without a dedicated macro lens. I use a sliding back for the digital back.

In regards to the electronic vs mechanical shutters, I have 5 lenses, three with the electronic shutters and 2 with mechanical shutters. It is a matter of personal preference. The electronic shutters are more important in the studio or work where you need precise exposure. The mechanical shutters are less expensive and they work fine for me in the field. I would have liked to get a rollei MF setup and then an adapter so I could use the same lenses on both the view camera and MF 6008AF but I do not believe that aptus makes a back to fit the rollei MF.

Feel free to email or respond if there are any other questions I can answer. Again, I am relatively new at this but have been spending alot of time experimenting in recent weeks. Mark

[Ash]

On the note of medium format digital backs, and the lack of movements, you could always use a bellows or 'lensbaby' system, or else considering the budget you need for all this, merely buy a lens with tilt/shift features. I know this kills off the Large Format aspect, but you might find the planning quite painful for this type of system!

I've only recently got into large format properly, and it'll take a while to settle into film, I darent try and sort a digital back as well!

[foto-z]

There are no Rollei X Acts on ebay, and the only new price I have seen for the camera so far is over 4000 euros. On the other hand, there are used Sinar P 4x5 cameras going for a few hundred. Hmm... I'll try and keep my eyes open for an affordable used 6x9.

[Capocheny]

On the note of medium format digital backs, and the lack of movements, you could always use a bellows or 'lensbaby' system, or else considering the budget you need for all this, merely buy a lens with tilt/shift features. I know this kills off the Large Format aspect, but you might find the planning quite painful for this type of system!

I've only recently got into large format properly, and it'll take a while to settle into film, I darent try and sort a digital back as well!


My first thought here is, "Do you know what kind of photography you want to do with this camera?" Will it be landscape photography? Product photography? Portrait photography? Architectural photography? The type of photography will certainly influence what you're buying in the way of camera, lenses, and other items.

A digital back is simply a recording medium much like film. You'll STILL need to learn how to use the movements properly in order to maximize the benefits of a large format camera. In the case of a large format camera... it isn't the lens that "automatically includes tilt and shift." Rather, it's the movement on the front and rear standards that allow these capabilities.

BTW, there ARE medium format cameras available that allow movements. Mamiya has a device available for their 6x7 series which allows for limited movements. The Fuji 680II also allows movements on the camera. It even has a bellows system built in much like that of a large format camera.

There are others as well...

The Linhof M679cs IS a gorgeous camera but it's certainly NOT going to be a light camera by any stretch of the imagination. If you can carry that camera for a few miles into the wilderness... my hats off to you! :) And, cost wise? It's an expensive camera! IIRC, it's well over the $6,000 mark.

Out of curiosity, have you ANY idea as to what you're looking to spend on a system such as this? A Phase One back is going to set you back a bundle of dollars!

What I would STRONGLY suggest is that you do some research in addition to what has already been recommended by some of the other posters. You're looking to spend a sizeable sum of money on a digital back, camera, lenses, and other accessories... but, [I'm pretty much convinced that] you've not done any due diligence on this.

I'd recommend that you pick up the latest Jim Stone book entitled, "A Users Guide to The View Camera." I believe he's added additional information on going the digital route with a view camera.

Steve Simmons also has a good beginners book out on The View Camera.

Whichever and whatever route you go to do your research... be very thorough with it! Otherwise, you might find yourself with a pile of high-quality gear and not understand its functional capabilites, which equals a waste of dollars.

Good luck...

Cheers

[foto-z]

[I'm pretty much convinced that] you've not done any due diligence on this.

You're absolutely right, and I do describe myself as a 'beginner' at this stage. I understand movements and I've played with a Sinar before, so I feel comfortable with the concept and in fact enjoy the creative freedom, but there are a lot of practical details to fill in.

As I wrote, I've been offered a digital back by a friend at a ridiculously low price, so it's a chance for me to get back into medium format. (I started out on Hass V).

As for the type of photography - advertising, fashion, product, landscape. Ideally I'd use a view camera where it is practical and a 645 when I have to. Sharing the digital back is a good start.

[Robert Payne]

Don't forget Arca-Swiss. :)

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/digital-view.shtml