Cleaning Film - Electrostatic Cleaners and Filters

[Ed K.]

Anyone using electrostatic filters for dust control? Any recomendations?

Also, I wonder if it is possible to induce a static charge to film that is opposite of the collection / filter device. Perhaps even charged air or pressurized, filtered and dried air with alternating charges to disrupt particles that cling to film. The idea is to use the static that attracts dirt as a means to dislodge it from film, for colleciton by a near-by electrostatic filter system. It would seem that such a technique would be great for cleaning negs, film holders and all sorts of stuff.

I would like an alternative to the poor quality little vacuum, expensive radioactive brushes that leave hairs behind/wear out, and frankly, the crummy old canned air. This seems to be just the ticket.

Does anyone know of existing equipment for this purpose? It seems like it wouldn't be that difficult to build the compressor/dryer/charger rig, and electrostatic filter systems do exist.

Thoughts on it?

[Doug Dolde]

I've heard good things about the Kinetronics Anti-Static Ionizing Air Gun but haven't used one myself.

http://www.kinetronics.com

[George Stewart]

I just purchased Kinetronics' KSE-250. I don't have enough experience to give a report yet, but it appears to be very good. It's a 5 lbs. unit, which appears could clean up to 20x24" film (8x10 is my maximum) with mulitple passes. It has a replacable filter and puts out an anti-static field that is very strong. When I get a chance, I'll give a more scientific report. I've always been pleased with Kinetroncs products

[resummerfield]

I have something similar—not Kinetronics but a Simco product that works on the same principle. The Simco is very easy to use and removes dust well, but I don’t’ see much improvement over my old system of anti-static brush combined with filtered shop air. With the Simco alone, I need around 15-20 psi to remove dust particles that the brush/air combo removed with less than 10 psi. So I have to be more careful with the Simco. On the other hand, by not using a brush, there is no chance of scratching.

It would be fairly simple to make something similar to the Simco/Kinetronics. You would need a high voltage transformer (I’ve seen used ones on ebay very cheap) and a single-point ionizer (Simco sells them for around $100) attached at the point of discharge of a simple air gun (and filtered, regulated shop air). Power the transformer through a foot switch, so it is on only when needed.

[Joe Blaze]

I have a Kinetronics Anti-Static Ionizing Air Gun which I have connected to a compressed nitrogen tank with a 2-stage pressure control valve to reduce the pressure from 8000psi to about 50psi. After the capital cost is paid for this setup, the refill tanks of nitrogen are inexpensive. Some simple instruction is needed from the compressed nitrogen supplier to safely store and exchange the cylinder from the control valve. The compressed nitrogen eliminates an air compressor and provides a dry and clean source better than 'canned air'.

The Air Gun itself has a charged needle in the gas stream which ionizes the output of the Air Gun to dislodge most dust on film easily. For scanning (or analog printing), I clean the film with Kami film cleaner and a disposable wipe, place the film into the holder and then use the Air Gun to blast off any remaining dust.

See: http://www.kinetronics.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.100.exe/online-store/scstore/iag.html?L+scstore+xkxg1618ff930893+1171661685

[Ed K.]

Good ideas - thanks!

I do wonder - the film itself tends to get a charge sometimes, which attracts dust. I wonder if there is any possible worth in pulsing the charge of the film itself, or grounding it and then blasting, etc. to dislodge.

In addition to simply blowing crud off, I would like to have a good collector nearby to actively collect what is then airborne. Somehow just blasting dust back into the air doesn't seem as effective as collecting it in general, then collecting it when it is dislodged. I'm thinking of building a 2 stage clean area - one for initial dust removal and general cleaning, then one that is even more clean. Any other thoughts on that?

[MJSfoto1956]

I have used the Booflet (yes, wierd name indeed) with my rollfilm with great success.

You can find their quirky website here:
http://www.boofey.com/

No relationship to the company other than a satisfied customer.

J Michael Sullivan
MAGNAchrom...

[Wayne Crider]

You should be able to get along with a good Hepa filter. Dust particles are very large compared to what a electrostatic filter filters out. This from my 26 years in the a/c industry.

[Dan Jolicoeur]

http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=1648

Try this site or do a Google search on "Jacobs ladder air ionizer". It is just a series of diodes and capacitors. I have not built one yet but was planning on it. It is a very simple circuit; you will just need a box around the mains power supply! I believe I have seen kits for these also??
Dan

[Dan Jolicoeur]

A mater of fact the Kinetronics air gun is based around the same principle. They just have two or more post coming of the power supply and Jacobs ladder that ionizes the air as it is discharged from the end of the nozzle. Do some research on it and you will see that this principle has been around for a long time. People made these, and put them in there houses, to ionize the air and make the house sick free?? Someone with more electronics background can explain better than I can!

Dan

[Justus Schlichting]

I used to have nasty dust problems both pre and post exposure. I installed a floor standing Friedrich air cleaner in the darkroom, and, as long as I run it at least twenty minutes before I load film holders or print, dust is no longer a problem. The most I need is a single pass with a soft brush to remove residual dust. The air cleaner seemed like overkill when I first got it, but now I can't image working without it.

[Ed K.]

Hello Justus - where'd you get your air cleaner?

[ccurtis]

George, I know your original post about this was pretty old (circa 2006), but I wondered if you had conducted your more scientific review of the Kinetronics KSE-250 product yet? I work for an aerial photography firm and we are looking at getting a KSE-250i cleaner to use just before scanning aerial film on a high resolution aerial film scanner. I am struggling to find any reviews or finding anyone who can vouch for how well it works.


I just purchased Kinetronics' KSE-250. I don't have enough experience to give a report yet, but it appears to be very good. It's a 5 lbs. unit, which appears could clean up to 20x24" film (8x10 is my maximum) with multiple passes. It has a replaceable filter and puts out an anti-static field that is very strong. When I get a chance, I'll give a more scientific report. I've always been pleased with Kinetroncs products

[Michael Graves]

In my darkroom, I have an old Kodak anti-static brush that plugs into the wall. It works great. In my office I have a Kinetronic unit that has a thin wire that goes to the ground of any AC outlet (the neutral prong of a 3-prong adapter). It works well also. I have no way of measuring whether one works better than the other or not. They both do the job. The Kinetronics is definitely easier to acquire.

[ccurtis]

Until now we have been using a very old contact tacky film cleaner, and are beginning to find it very difficult to find rolls of the consumable tacky stuff. Kodak is the only manufacturer of the tacky stuff we knew of, and they are struggling to produce more as it is in such low demand(it is back ordered until late march).

I am just hoping the Kinetronics cleaner will remove enough dust and dirt particles for high resolution scanning. We have been working on archiving a library full of old aerial photography that, of course, is filthy.

Thanks for your advice!

[Jac@stafford.net]

Has anyone tried the Milty Zerostat Gun?
http://www.needledoctor.com/Milty-Zerostat-Gun

[Robert Bowring]

I have used a Kodak anti-static brush for years in my darkroom. I believe it is the same as a Zone VI anti-static brush. It works great. You can find them for sale once in a while on ebay. It was one of the best darkroom investments I ever made. I find it much easier to clean the negative well than to have to spot a print.

[erie patsellis]

Has anyone tried the Milty Zerostat Gun?
http://www.needledoctor.com/Milty-Zerostat-Gun

John,
I have one, though mine says discwasher on it. Works well as long as you squeeze the trigger slowly.

Erie

[Jac@stafford.net]

John,
I have one, though mine says discwasher on it. Works well as long as you squeeze the trigger slowly.

Erie

Thanks for that, Erie. It is also good to meet you here. The Orbit 8x10 you sold to me is PERFECT in alignment! In fact I am selling the Deardorff for that reason.

For others - my name is Jac, AKA John, at one time and for years a news photographer in the city of Chicago, now a retired Olde Phart. :)

[erie patsellis]

Good to see you here as well, and I still miss that camera.

I need to make it up your way this spring, I take it all your bike accident related injuries have healed sufficiently.

[Stephen Willard]

I print and sell big photographs on a regular basis which means tiny tiny dust spots on the negative print real real big on big prints. Dust for me has historically been a real nightmare.

I have tried air scrubbing using portable air cleaners up to installing a $3000 electrostatic cleaner in my forced hot air heating-cooling system. My success with air scrubbers has been real limited.

I have also tried oiling my negatives and that work real well except it is messy as hell and not easy to cleanup. So I gave up on that approach because it took me longer to apply the oil and cleanup than it did to spot a print.

What I found that works very well is the combination of a compressor with a two gallon tank that can generate at least 80 psi connected to a electrostatic gun and the Wall Mart Evercare lint roller. The Evercare lint roller pulls off all dust on the negative that compressed air will not get. It does am amazing job of getting everything, even those really tiny specks that stick real head to the film surface.

It is important that use the Evercare brand because the sticky surface does not leave any residue on the film. All other lint rollers will leave goo on the negative. Note, cleaning the negative with the Evercare lint roller takes practice before you can do it correctly without damaging the negative. Practice using the lint roller on some scarp film before you use it on a good negative. For the record, I have never damaged any negatives using the Evercare lint roller.

Hope this helps...

88088 88089 88090

[yelmarb]

I print and sell big photographs on a regular basis which means tiny tiny dust spots on the negative print real real big on big prints. Dust for me has historically been a real nightmare.

I have tried air scrubbing using portable air cleaners up to installing a $3000 electrostatic cleaner in my forced hot air heating-cooling system. My success with air scrubbers has been real limited.

I have also tried oiling my negatives and that work real well except it is messy as hell and not easy to cleanup. So I gave up on that approach because it took me longer to apply the oil and cleanup than it did to spot a print.

What I found that works very well is the combination of a compressor with a two gallon tank that can generate at least 80 psi connected to a electrostatic gun and the Wall Mart Evercare lint roller. The Evercare lint roller pulls off all dust on the negative that compressed air will not get. It does am amazing job of getting everything, even those really tiny specks that stick real head to the film surface.

It is important that use the Evercare brand because the sticky surface does not leave any residue on the film. All other lint rollers will leave goo on the negative. Note, cleaning the negative with the Evercare lint roller takes practice before you can do it correctly without damaging the negative. Practice using the lint roller on some scarp film before you use it on a good negative. For the record, I have never damaged any negatives using the Evercare lint roller.

Hope this helps...

88088 88089 88090

Can you tell me what brand the electrostatic gun is?

[Peter De Smidt]

Stephen, I bought one of the Evercare rollers, although it has a different handle. How do you keep the sheets from coming off as you roll it over the film? I've tried both directions.

[Drew Wiley]

Hi Stephen. Don't know if I'll get to the northern Winds this Sept; more likely, take along hike in Kings Can again to save gas money. Interesting system you've got going. I rarely use my own anti-static system because fog most of the year keeps things a bit humid; and I use passive electric heat in the darkrooms. Our dry weather is typically just October to November, but last year even much of that time was rainy.