11x14 Filmholders

[Donald Brewster]

OK. Where are they all hiding? Is Jim Galli hoarding them at Area 51? God bless S&S and the others still making them, but what can the budget minded (and decidedly non-handy) do these days? Any tips on where one can find used ones or NOS Fidelities? Help!

[Joe Smigiel]

I've purchased several used 11x14 holders from Midwest Photo Exchange (mpex.com) for around $125 each about 4 years ago. At the time used holders on eBay were averaging about twice that amount. I don't know of anyplace cheaper that carries reliable used goods. Their service is also excellent.

I also picked up a new AWB walnut holder and that one is sweet although it was $430 at the time. I think they are around $480-$500 now.

Fortunately, the things are so heavy and bulky (at least wooden ones) that you can't carry many in the field so therefore you don't really need many.:)

[Turner Reich]

Last year I only saw a couple of them and they were going for hundreds, I settled on two 11X14 glass plate holders, which I am ashamed to say what I paid, and they won't do it. Too heavy and I would have to modified them to make them hold a sheet of film. In other words not made for sheet film, duh.

I think they have to be made by the user or camera maker or made to fit an existing camera, if you already have one, in order not to have to mortgage the farm.

Six holders at $500. each would be $3000.. The math is a given but really three grand for a half dozen holders?

What's a holder anyway?

A sheet of plywood, thick enough for stability.
Edges of wood thick enough for a slot and thick enough to give the T-Dimension.
A slot for a dark slide.
A light trap so the slide can be removed and inserted without fogging the film.

I made a field camera, clam shell folding type, in 4X5. I made it to accomodate the existing holders.

Now I want a larger format camera, why can't I make a holder? When I break it down I seem to know how it's made and what it does. I have some in plastic and some wooden ones so I have a range that look at. I have even taken one of the wooden ones apart because it was shot anyway.

I think the main reason is that everyone who talks about film holders gives the impression that they are so complex that no one but an expert can make one or understand the complex optical and physical mechanics of them.

I don't think so and I am now going to make one just to see if I can. I think so and I am very confident that it will be perfectly functional. I might even be making different sizes like 4X10 and 7X17 or 11X14. I think I will make double sided ones to boot.

Any thoughts?

[Ralph Barker]

Although I'm a "woodworker" on the side, I haven't attempted to make film holders or LF cameras for that matter. It seems to me, however, that the challenge is one of consistently fine precision with tools that are typically used at a different level of precision. For example, with most woodworking projects, plus or minus 1/32" is "close enough", but would spell disaster for a film holder. Thus, the trick might be in applying a machinist's mindset to wood, along with tools that can support that mindset. (e.g. how much play does your table saw's arbor have?)

[Nick_3536]

But why use wood at all? Other things move less.

I wonder if one of the problems in building commerical film holders is the need to build to the standard so all cameras will work. How about reinventing the wheel? If you're building film holders build a custom back to.

I'm likely missing something but you all can point those out -) But why not build a holder like a 11x14 10 sheet pack of paper envelope? Just with a whole cut out for the film area. Need some sort of darkslide. The thing could be made out of matt board?? Or even thin metal. Maybe the back could have a slot in it to hold the film holder?

I think if you're going to the hassle of building a film holder it might be best to think out of the box. If all you're doing is building standard film holders by the time you've built one I bet you'll have spent enough in time,waste and tools to have bought a few.

[Salty]

If I were to try to create a film holder, I'd use my power planer to get the wood the right thickness. As for precision cuts, I'd use the table saw for "rough cutting" dimensions then use my router table with a straight edge for the final "sized" cut.

[Turner Reich]

Although I'm a "woodworker" on the side, I haven't attempted to make film holders or LF cameras for that matter. It seems to me, however, that the challenge is one of consistently fine precision with tools that are typically used at a different level of precision. For example, with most woodworking projects, plus or minus 1/32" is "close enough", but would spell disaster for a film holder. Thus, the trick might be in applying a machinist's mindset to wood, along with tools that can support that mindset. (e.g. how much play does your table saw's arbor have?)

I consider woodworking as Fine Woodworking and mill or machine my lumber to exact fittings. The 1/32" stuff is for carpenters not fine woodworkers. I have a complete cabinet shop with very exacting tools and machines.

And yes I consider milling other materials besides wood, like aluminum and synthetic sheet materials. I will use a combination of materials. It's a go no go situation. The film is either held firmly in the exact postion or it is not. There is no inbetween for the T Dim. People have been making film holder for decades. What stopped them?

[jnantz]

i have my eye on a 11x14 camera and i hate to admit this but i was going to make a film holder out of foam core. it was going to be more of a "paper holder" than a film holder ... but just the same it was going to cost me very little :)

--john

[Turner Reich]

john, you never know until you try, if it doesn't take much time and the cost is low then you might just get lucky.

tr

[Capocheny]

Hi Donald,

FYI... on that big auction site at the moment:

http://cgi.ebay.com/11x14-fidelity-film-holder-2-of-2_W0QQitemZ200005947966QQihZ010QQcategoryZ15248QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If the above link doesn't work... here's the listing number: Z200005947966

Good luck on the bidding. :)

BTW, I have NO connections with the seller.

Cheers

[Geert]

You don't have to rebuild the back if you want to make your own filmholders: only the position of the focussing side of the groundglass vs. flim plane is important.

So, a few holders and the groundglass holder, fit to an existing back will do.
I don't say it's a simple job... :eek:

Need inspiration? See my 7x17" project (http://sheetfilm.be/cams/7x17web/).

G