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Scott Rosenberg
26-Jun-2006, 18:16
i was just reading here (http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=165&IID=1853) that "Schneider’s coating designers have developed a revolutionary new coating called MRC. This new coating is harder and more durable, less subject to fogging, and easier to clean. The APO-TELE XENAR 400mm is the first lens to use this new coating technology."

is this something new for lenses, or is this the same MRC coating that i've seen on their filters for some time now? i don't often look around their site, nor am i in the habit of keeping on top of the latest breakthroughs, so for all i know this was announced years ago! just wondering if this really is a development, or if i'm just late to the party.

if this is new, are there plans to expand it to other lenses?

Andre Noble
26-Jun-2006, 21:15
Forget the new coating Schneider, how 'bout:

1) Finding out what kind of anti-reflective black paint Rodenstock and the Japanese lens makers use, and use it.

2) Finding out what kind of element cement Rodenstock and the Japanese lens makers use, and use it.

3) Finding out what kind of anti-fungal measures Rodenstock and the Japanese lens makers use, and use them.

Arne Croell
26-Jun-2006, 22:36
Its the same as their B+W filter one, introduced around 2000-2001 and described here:
http://www.schneiderkreuznach.de/knowhow/mrc_e.htm
The use for lenses was a little later than the filters, but in their chronological news the 400MRC is listed before photokina 2002.

paulr
26-Jun-2006, 23:43
Forget the new coating Schneider, how 'bout:

1) Finding out what kind of anti-reflective black paint Rodenstock and the Japanese lens makers use, and use it.

2) Finding out what kind of element cement Rodenstock and the Japanese lens makers use, and use it.

3) Finding out what kind of anti-fungal measures Rodenstock and the Japanese lens makers use, and use them.

Ha. The worst cases of 'schneideritis' I've seen were on Rodenstock and Japanese lenses. And I've had a bizarre number of friends with elements coming unglued on Rodenstock enlarging lenses. No fungus experience, though. Knock on wood.

Dan Fromm
27-Jun-2006, 04:02
Forget the new coating Schneider, how 'bout:

1) Finding out what kind of anti-reflective black paint Rodenstock and the Japanese lens makers use, and use it.

2) Finding out what kind of element cement Rodenstock and the Japanese lens makers use, and use it.

3) Finding out what kind of anti-fungal measures Rodenstock and the Japanese lens makers use, and use them.
Andre, Rodenstock has had problems with cemented elements. Witness nearly all 58/5.6 Grandagons and at least some Sironars. There was recently a badly separated 100/5.6 Sironar on eBay.fr.

As for fungus, I've had a few lenses. Not as many as Ole or that fiend Galli, but a moderate number. The only one with fungus is on a Konica Auto S2.

What data are you working from?

Arne Croell
27-Jun-2006, 04:26
Forget the new coating Schneider, how 'bout:
2) Finding out what kind of element cement Rodenstock and the Japanese lens makers use, and use it.

I agree with Dan, separation is much more likely with 1960's or 1970's Rodenstock lenses than with any Schneiders, from what I've seen. I have seen several Sironars as well as some long focal length Rodagons from that time showing considerable separation. Another separation candidate is Voigtländer. Not the Heliars, but the Apo-Skopars, Apo-Lanthars and Telomars often show some separation. Zeiss' 250mm Sonnar for Linhof is another one.

Frank Petronio
27-Jun-2006, 05:11
Well would having a MRC coating on a lens make it worth buying?

Man, you must have a nice wad burning a hole in your pocket. But before I'd spend thousands on a rack of new lenses I'd ask myself a simple question: "Will this make me a better photographer?"

Scott Rosenberg
27-Jun-2006, 07:00
Well would having a MRC coating on a lens make it worth buying?

Man, you must have a nice wad burning a hole in your pocket. But before I'd spend thousands on a rack of new lenses I'd ask myself a simple question: "Will this make me a better photographer?"

frank, to answer your questions...
No.
Not even close.
Hell no.

i was asking out of sheer curiousity. i don't generally keep up on the latest breakthroughs in lenses, so was merely wondering if this was in fact new or something i just hadn't seen for a few years.

paulr
27-Jun-2006, 07:06
As a marketing gimmick, when they sell a lens with the new coating they should include a piece of sandpaper to use as a cleaning cloth.

Scott Rosenberg
27-Jun-2006, 07:27
As a marketing gimmick, when they sell a lens with the new coating they should include a piece of sandpaper to use as a cleaning cloth.

that only makes sense... glass does start as sand afterall.

BrianShaw
27-Jun-2006, 07:30
As a marketing gimmick, when they sell a lens with the new coating they should include a piece of sandpaper to use as a cleaning cloth.

Ha, ha. They'd have to be willing to warrantee the lens when somebody actually cleans the lens with the sandpaper... and it WOULD happen!

Sorry to be a stick-in-the-mud -- I'm too much of a realist and not enough of a marketing genius!

tim atherton
27-Jun-2006, 07:52
As a marketing gimmick, when they sell a lens with the new coating they should include a piece of sandpaper to use as a cleaning cloth.

I remember the Leica service guy at Leitz UK used to do this on tours to demontrate the quality of Leitz coatings. He would empty part of the contents of a handy ashtray (smoking was still allowed last time I saw this...) onto the front element of some nice expensive Leitz lens, swirl it around, then clean it of with an old hanky from his pocket, finish off with some lens cleaner at the end and show you how it looked good as new...

Helen Bach
27-Jun-2006, 09:43
I thought that Schneider/B+W introduced MRC coating on filters before 2000 - the first ones I bought were certainly before then. The older MC coating for B+W and Schneider filters was noticeably softer than Hoya's HMC.

Best,
Helen

Frank Petronio
27-Jun-2006, 20:39
The Thomas Tomsey camera repair books say that Windex and Kleenex are what he uses in his camera repair business.

My thinking is anything film can be cleaned off glass if you're careful. And anything abrasive will cut through even the fanciest coatings. The big advantage of coatings are flare-reduction, not protection.

And apologies to Scott, I was being an ass and made a snide remark about buying lenses. I was more jealous than anything else, I would love a new Tele-Xenar!

paulr
27-Jun-2006, 22:19
I remember the Leica service guy at Leitz UK used to do this on tours to demontrate the quality of Leitz coatings.

oh, jeez ... i was just being a jackass. never imagined anyone would have such an idea in earnest.

Scott Rosenberg
27-Jun-2006, 22:26
The Thomas Tomsey camera repair books say that Windex and Kleenex are what he uses in his camera repair business.

My thinking is anything film can be cleaned off glass if you're careful. And anything abrasive will cut through even the fanciest coatings. The big advantage of coatings are flare-reduction, not protection.

And apologies to Scott, I was being an ass and made a snide remark about buying lenses. I was more jealous than anything else, I would love a new Tele-Xenar!

frank, you're not going soft on us are you?? no apoligies necessary... i'd love a tele-xenar, too... but that gem is a bit out of my reach!!