HP CombiPlan question

[Aroundomaha]

I'm edging toward trying my own B&W development, and though trays are really tempting, I'm sort of inclined toward the HP CombiPlan daylight tank.

Its only $75 through Amazon.com, but my question is whether it is a complete system? I know I will need a timer, thermometer, etc, but want to make sure I get what I need the first time.

Is this correct:
HP CombiPlan
(misc chemicals)
timer,
thermometer

Or are there more parts/stuff to buy to develop B&W with the CombiPlan?

Thank you,

David

[Bob Salomon]

As a processing tank the Combi Plan is complete with film rack, film loading guide (sometimes we screw up and include 2 of them, film retaining clip, 2 light tight hose connectors and a funnel to aid in filling. The light tight hose connectors are ribbed so you can easily attach a PVC type wash hose to the bottom one to convert the tank into a forced film washer.

In addition you will need some bottles to hold the chemistry, a good thermometer and some means of timing the processes.

the CombiPlan T system has a list price of $87.00 in the U.S.

[Jay DeFehr]

In my opinion, the CombiPlan is a clumsy adaptation of a deep tank for daylight processing. Fill and dump rates are slow, and it fills from the top, basically dribbling over the film until full. The Jobo 2521 tank and 2509n reel is a much better system for daylight processing of multiple sheets of film. The Jobo tanks fill and dump very quickly, and fill from the bottom of the tank, covering your film quickly and evenly, instead of dribbling and splashing. The Jobo tanks can be used like any small tank for intermittent inversion agitation, or rolled for rotary agitation with the minimum required volume of developer solution for much greater economy. The full Jobo setup with reel, tank, loader and guides is a little more expensive than the CombiPlan, but a bargain by comparison. I would avoid the CombiPlan at all costs.

Jay

[Bob Salomon]

"dribbling over the film until full"

Sorry but that isn't corrrect. The Light Tight Hose Connector channels the solution into a trough around the top of the tank which then lets the solutions fill from the edges. There are never complaints of splashing or dripping but then again, the CombiPlan has only been on the market - unchaged except for the design of the teeth on the film clip, for the past half century. So enough other people have not found the filling technique to be that much of a problem that it would cause anything like uneven processing.

[robc]

In my opinion, the CombiPlan is a clumsy adaptation of a deep tank for daylight processing. Fill and dump rates are slow, and it fills from the top, basically dribbling over the film until full. The Jobo 2521 tank and 2509n reel is a much better system for daylight processing of multiple sheets of film. The Jobo tanks fill and dump very quickly, and fill from the bottom of the tank, covering your film quickly and evenly, instead of dribbling and splashing. The Jobo tanks can be used like any small tank for intermittent inversion agitation, or rolled for rotary agitation with the minimum required volume of developer solution for much greater economy. The full Jobo setup with reel, tank, loader and guides is a little more expensive than the CombiPlan, but a bargain by comparison. I would avoid the CombiPlan at all costs.

Jay

I wouldn't go as far to say it should be avoided at costs. I have used one sucessfully for several years. It does have it's limitations though. I have just purchased the Jobo as mentioned and in the UK it is cheaper than the combi plan and the jobo is much better made.
The jobo does load and empty much more quickly. The biggest draw back with the jobo is that when used for hand inversion development and not rotary, it uses 1500ml of chemistry which is 50% more than the combi plan. Until I have used the jobo more I wouldn't like to say which is the best option. I have yet to find out whether inversion pushes the film out of the guides which occasionally happens with the combi plan. The likelyhood of this happening can be reduced by filling the combi plan further than needed to cover the film so that you use 1200ml instead of 1000ml. The jobo does have the dubious advantage of being able to be used for rotary processing.
I think the jobo is a little easier to load in a changing bag than the combi plan but there is not much in it.

[Jay DeFehr]

There are never complaints of splashing or dripping...

Maybe you should re-read my post, Bob, or some of the dozens of others detailing the shortcomings of the CombiPlan.

robc,

I think you'll be very happy with your Jobo system. I think the difference between 1200ml and 1500ml is not very important, unless you're using an unusually expensive developer, in which case, you might opt to use rotary agitation and the minimum volume of solution. I like the 2521 tank for reduced agitation development with dilute developer, and prefer the Expert drums for rotary development (easier to load, and I can proces 3x4 in them).

Jay

[Brian Schall]

I just bought a Combi Tank for use with DiXactol developer. Freestyle has them for
$65. I'm planning on having the tank filled with developer and inserting the film holder directly into it to start the process. Eliminates the initial filling with developer, gets the film instantly into the developer. Also planning on trying and drain from the bottom valve; open the bottom, pop the air vent on top and the liquid should drain out fast.

Good luck with your foray into LF developing. I've tried trays, too long in the dark. Tried the Unicolor tubes, works fine except I can only do 2 negs at a time (4 keeps overlapping no matter what I've tried to separate them) and can't do compensating developing with the constant agitation and can't use DiXactol.

Brian

[Aroundomaha]

Ok, I'm a little confused about whether the CombiPlan will be ok as a way for me to tinker with my own film development?

Maybe I should just punt and get a some trays?

[robc]

Ok, I'm a little confused about whether the CombiPlan will be ok as a way for me to tinker with my own film development?

Maybe I should just punt and get a some trays?

The whole point of the combi plan or the jobo being discussed here is that they are both suitable for daylight processing. Trays must be done in the dark. You can tinker with development with any of the combi plan or the jobo or trays. If you are working in the dark you can use the combi plan like a dip and dunk tank if you wanted. The only thing you cant do with a combi plan is rotary processing.

Processing with intermittent agitation is the method I prefer. Both the combi plan and Jobo will do that. The jobo also can be used for roller processing with much less chemistry. Either will be suitable for you. Take your pick.

[Merg Ross]

David,
On the Home Page under Processing and Printing, check out the article by Eugene Singer titled:"Developing 4x5 Sheet Film, an Alternative Method." He outlines a good system of using the CombiPlan tanks. I have used this system and it works well.

[reellis67]

Everyone will have their own opinons about every product they have ever used. IF you follow the directions, and IF you use it the way it is designed, it will work well. The biggest problem seems to be that people do not read the directions and expect it to work one way when it was designed to work another way. I've never had the problems that people keep reporting. I think you will be fine. Just my $0.02

- Randy

[Jay DeFehr]

Randy,

I must have missed the part in the directions where it details how to stop the tank from leaking when inverted, or how to keep the film from being dislodged during agitation, or how to make it fill and dump faster and more evenly. Oddly enough, I seem to have no trouble using the Jobo tank/reels, and I didn't even have to read the directions. Maybe I'm a fool, and the Jobo system is more foolproof than the CombiPlan. Maybe I also missed the part of this thread where the advantages of the CombiPlan were discussed? Anything is possible. Whenever the shortcomings of a product are ascribed to its users, it's a very reliable indication of a problematic product. Either way, the Jobo system is better built, more versatile, and easier to use. If it's also cheaper where you live, it seems like a simple decision.

Jay

[robc]

The reason I bought a second developing tank was because I wanted a backup incase of breakage and some kit is scarce to come by these days.
The reason I bought the jobo was not only because of price, but because the Combi Plan will leak sometimes and parts do need replacing from time to time. A replacement film clip cost me £15 with postage in the UK for a 2 pence piece of plastic which costs $4 dollars in the US. A replacement film holder for the combi plan is £40 plus postage. A spare jobo reel is £24 plus postage.
The funnel which comes with it is really too small for my liking and when pouring in chemicals, they often bubble through the air vent as you pour them in which leaves chemical on the outside of the tank which gets everywhere when you invert the tank. Sure its a useable system and it works but it is not as good as it could be if a little more was spent on its production. For the price it is not good value, especially in the UK.

The real test is the resulting negs and I haven't formed an opinion on that yet.

[Louis Jensen]

I have used a Combi Plan tank for many years (more than 15). That tank, a graduate, termometer, timer and storage bottles for liquids is all that you need.

Louis Jensen

[robc]

I think we're going to have to start a poll...

[Ron Marshall]

If you plan on developing more than occasionally then look for a used Jobo Expert drum, 3010 or 3006. On Ebay, I have seen them go for less than $100, but $150 is a more usual figure. Easier to use than the Combi, less chemistry required, always even development. I hand roll on the $20 Jobo roller base.

I have a Combi-plan which I use for stand development, they are fine for occasional use, but every time I use the Jobo I am thankful I went that route.

[R Mann]

I use a Combi-plan with Diafine - I have not had any problems, but then I do not need to invert the tank or worry about drain times.

[Leonard Metcalf]

I use one all the time. I tried trays but scratched my negs... so went back to the combi... My negs come out fine every time with the system I use.... you will need a darkroom or changing bag to load the tank... and more than a couple of jugs for your chemicals... I always double load mine too with 12 shots... and then refix a second time after separating the films. I used to own a Kombi Van once too, it suited my hippy look and attitudes... which is why I don't get too worried about the fill times... I timed mine it takes as long to fill as drain, so start the time when I start filling, and empty when the time has run out... all the film gets similar development... within 10 seconds... good enough for me...

[Kevin Klazek]

I have been using the combi tank for 4x5 film for about 3 or 4 years now. I have never had problems with uneven development, leakage or negs comming out of the holders. As was already noted fill and dump times are what they are and do not have any major impact on the process. As long as you read the directions and follow them, you should not have any problems.

There are alternatives to the combi and you will find each has its pros and cons, as does the combi. I would recommend the combi based on my experiences with it.

[Ted Chambers]

I've always heard complaints about the Combi-Plan, but I've personally been pretty happy with it.

The only thing to be careful of is that the film is in the proper channel at the bottom, and properly secured at the top. If you're not careful, film can touch, especially if you're using all six channels. Certainly, it's less trying than loading roll film onto a reel.

Fill and drain times are long but that seems to have no ill effect.

Apart from that, no problems. No leaks in my case.

[Bob Salomon]

If someone has a leaking tank they should contact us so we can replace the leaking part. The CombiPlan does not leak unless something is cracked or a washer is missing or the hose connector is not screwed in tightly.

Exactly where does it leak? From the top? From the hose connector socket? From the end of the hose connector?

[Dawid]

So far the Combiplan tank has been very easy to use and all my negatives has been developed well. I too experience some chemicals bubbeling through the vent but it seems to be less if one opens them wide as possible and fills the tank slightly slower.

Dev. times not a problem as I drain it via the top valve and thus the top and bottom of neg remains in developer for the same time.

I have not used a Jobo / other tanks - all I can say is the Combiplan is very easy to use and I can recommend it for amateurs / first timers.

Cheers
Dawid

[Patrik Roseen]

I agree with Dawid...I have had no real problems with my Combiplan apart from me not filling enough developer at one time...Now I always fill with 1200 cc.
My tank is probably from the 1970's sometime (I got it used with my 4x5" equipment). Strangely enough mine only starts to leak from the lid after putting in the fix...happens every time...but that's no big deal.

The filmholder takes some time getting used to. I load six sheets inside my changing bag, and I do not use the guiding rail that came with mine. The rail always fall off when reaching for a new film sheet and trying to get it into place when there is already one or two sheets in the holder is nearly impossible in my experience.

[Steve Kefford]

I've always heard complaints about the Combi-Plan, but I've personally been pretty happy with it.

The only thing to be careful of is that the film is in the proper channel at the bottom, and properly secured at the top. If you're not careful, film can touch, especially if you're using all six channels. Certainly, it's less trying than loading roll film onto a reel.

Fill and drain times are long but that seems to have no ill effect.

Apart from that, no problems. No leaks in my case.

The only problem I have had is applying too much presure with the top retaiing clip and causing the film to bend too much and touch. This is especially a problem with thinner films such as Rollei IR.

No problem with uneven development as fill time is (almost) the same as drain time, hence film/dev contact time is constant for the whole film area.

Steve

[jackies]

I have used the Combi tanks for 2 years - dip and dunk and top closed. I am not happy with the uneven development no matter how hard I try or how little I agitate. I have just invested in the Jobo system and am looking forward to having even development FINALLY.

Just my .02
Jackie

[Nicolai Morrisson]

I wrote a review of this tank here (http://photondetector.com/articles/hp-combiplan/) and a follow-up here (http://photondetector.com/blog/2006/05/06/combiplan-still-sucks/).
(Out of consideration, I'm not posting them here as they both contain a fair amount of "colorful" language.)

[robc]

I wrote a review of this tank here (http://photondetector.com/articles/hp-combiplan/) and a follow-up here (http://photondetector.com/blog/2006/05/06/combiplan-still-sucks/).
(Out of consideration, I'm not posting them here as they both contain a fair amount of "colorful" language.)

Get off the fence and give it to us straight!

[Steve Kefford]

I wrote a review of this tank here (http://photondetector.com/articles/hp-combiplan/) and a follow-up here (http://photondetector.com/blog/2006/05/06/combiplan-still-sucks/).
(Out of consideration, I'm not posting them here as they both contain a fair amount of "colorful" language.)

I have used mine a fair bit latley, and can't agree with your conclusions.

Steve

[Bob Salomon]

Nicolai,

Soory you had a problem. Had you simply contacted us directly we would have replaced whatever was leaking.

As for film slipping out of the holder. That can only happen if the Film Retaining Clip is not in place or if it was broken by forcing it up and off the holder rather then gently squeezing the sides.

Again, if someone has a CombiPlan that leaks or has any other problem simply contact us. We don't want you to be so frustrated.

[Bruce]

I like my Combi Plan, and can't agree with Nicoli.Yes,like all tools there is a learning curve, and you can screw stuff up. But, I have run a lot of 4x5, both b&W and e-6 through mine,and any problems have been my fault, not the tools'.
I do wish that the drain/fill fittings were bigger.I also almost immediately broke the little nylon gizmos that hold the caps, and have had fears of losing the caps ever since.
It is a good product, and with proper care will do what it is intended to do.

[RichSBV]

This thread has raised my interest enough to get me to ask a few specific questions about the tank after hearing bad things about it for years. So if some folks would be so kind:

First: How difficult is it to load in a tent with the limited room available?

Second: Hard to be specific, but with only being able to see web pics of the tank, I have to say that the film rack looks very flimsy. Is it in real life?

And thrid: for Nicolai. If you hate it that much, how about sending it to me? No not a joke... This is a bit too expensive for me to purchase with only a hope that it works. Although I am generally very good at developing a required technique and making things work, I would be very unhappy if it turned out as Nicolai has reported. I also have absolutely no faith in Bob's saying "call us and we'll take care of it'. After being instructed to call HP before, all I could get out of them was "no we don't have that" and "we don't know a Bob Salomon"... (sorry, but that's true). So Nikolai, get in touch with me and let me try out your tank and we'll see if it's technique or design. If it works for me, I'll even pay you a fair price for it.

All in all, if some folks answer my questions, I may still buy one out of curiosity as I am looking for another daylight tank. Leaks really don't bother me as I now use an FR tank which is a non-sealing non-inversion tank and does make a mess if I'm not careful. It works great for me but I can't seem to locate a new one...

Thanks...

[robc]

This thread has raised my interest enough to get me to ask a few specific questions about the tank after hearing bad things about it for years. So if some folks would be so kind:

First: How difficult is it to load in a tent with the limited room available?

Second: Hard to be specific, but with only being able to see web pics of the tank, I have to say that the film rack looks very flimsy. Is it in real life?



First, if you have a tent, it is similar in difficulty or easiness to a jobo but the jobo has the edge as far as I'm concerned. But the answer to this is really down to you. Some people are ham fisted and if thats you then it will be difficult. If not then its simple.
There is a knack to it, and it takes a little practice, but once mastered its not diffuclt.
If you were using a changing bag and not a tent, then it would be much more diifficult.

Second, yes it is flimsy but not so flimsy it causes a problem. My biggest concern was the film clip which is prone to wear due to its design and if it moves up while processing, film will come loose and be ruined. If you were to drop it on a hard floor it would most likely break, but then so would a jobo reel.

In its defence, it has been in use for a long time by many many people without problems, but there are not many alternatives. The jobo is better made and easier to use with a far better fill and dump system but is apparently more expensive is the US

Take your pick, either will do the job.

[Bob Salomon]

"Second: Hard to be specific, but with only being able to see web pics of the tank, I have to say that the film rack looks very flimsy. Is it in real life?"

The Film Carrier can be assembled two ways. The most common way people assemble it is with the screw ends of the rods on the same side. That way the carrier has wiggle.

The best way is for the screw thread on each end to point in opposite directions. Then there is no wiggle.

As for the Film Clip loosening. That is a sign of a broken clip. A good clip will not wear and loosen. Clips break because they are not gently squeezed when removing them from the rack. Then one side or the oter will crack.

As for my not being available at HP Marketing Corp. is plain nonesense. You called someone else. We are only 8 people at HP Marketing and I have been here the longest - 25 years. if I am traveling the office will give you a cell number to reach me at.

You may have called a company called HP but you did not call HP Marketing Corp.

[robc]

Bob the fact is that the ratchet locking system for the film clip is not a good design. One mistake on the part of the user and its worn out. Thats all it takes, just one careless operation of the film clip and it needs replacing. That is not good design however you look at it. Apart from that, I think it is a perfectly serviceable piece of kit albeit overly priced.

[Brian Schall]

Queston for Bob.

I just purchased the Combi Tank. I have not used it yet so I have no comments, good or bad about it's performance. But it definitely has to be better than the old FR tanks.

My question: There are two blue washers. Were do they go? The instruction paper with the tank could definitely be improved. Clearer language (reads almost like a straight BabelFish translation from Swedish), and definitely clearer illustrations. In this day and age, I can print better on a $30 ink jet than what came with the tank.

I will be using this tank and I am hoping for acceptable results.

Thanks for your patience.

Brian

[Bruce]

After using mine for a while, here are some tips.
There is a knack to get the clip over top of the film with the correct amount of pressure. The temptation is to press it down too far. Don't do that, as it can cause the film to buckle and bump into the sheet next to it, or pop out of the slot altogethor. You will have to practice. I use mine in a large changing bag, and after a bit of practice find it no harder to load than a reel.
When the rubber top is put on, " burp " it, like you would a tupperware top. This will prevent leaks.
The fill valve has to be turned to the open position to fill. If you forget to turn it back after filling, it will leak when you agitate.
When filling, if you sort tweak the fill spout to the side, it will fill faster.
I drain mine by flipping the tank upside down and draining from the fill spout. This will prevent uneven development. The tank fills from the bottom up, and takes at least 35 seconds to fill. If you drain from the bottom, the bottom portion of the film will have been in solution longer than the top. I start my timer when I start to fill, and sart draining when the timer goes off, again by inverting the tank and draining out of the fill valve.This has worked to prevent uneven development for me, even when using e6.
Do not agitate side to side- the instruction manual explains this better, and they mean it. If you get a liter of fluid rocking side to side it will knock the film loose in the rack.
My guess after reading Nicolis' review is that he did not take the time to read the manual, or he has a defective piece. I won't say that mine doesn't leak at all, but I will say it leaks no more than my stainless steel or Patterson tanks.
As to the changing bag, use a big one, on a nice big flat surface and you should not have any trouble once you practice a few times.

[Jon Shiu]

I have used the combi tank for about five years and still use it. I sometimes get unevern development, but have tried a few things: load the film with the notches toward the bottom of the tank to minimize sky area problems, presoak the film for 4-5 minutes in water, and drop the loaded rack into the developer in the dark.

Jon

[Chris Strobel]

I've been thinking of buying a combi myself.So far I've been using a PF slosher for 4x5, but it would be nice to have the lights on part of the time.Can't one just turn the lights off, pop the lid off, pour chemicals in or out, pop the lid back on and then turn the lights back on?

[robc]

I've been thinking of buying a combi myself.So far I've been using a PF slosher for 4x5, but it would be nice to have the lights on part of the time.Can't one just turn the lights off, pop the lid off, pour chemicals in or out, pop the lid back on and then turn the lights back on?

yes you can do that but that is not quite what is was designed for. That kind of makes the inlet and outlet light tight screw in thingmy jigs redundant. You might just as well buy a dip and dunk tank with a lid.

[Ted Chambers]

Can't one just turn the lights off, pop the lid off, pour chemicals in or out, pop the lid back on and then turn the lights back on?

Yes, you can use it that way. I've also heard of people who buy extra tanks and do the whole process in the dark, moving the holder from tank to tank.

[Bob Salomon]

" but that is not quite what is was designed for."

Yes it was. The version we currently sell is the HP Combi Plan T. The same tank and film carrier were available up till about 20 years ago as the HP CombiPlan L. That version had a hard lid that was not light tight and could not be on when chemistry was changed and the bottom hole was closed with a screw in cap with no hose connector. There was no hose connector on the L lid. For people using the L system in a bank of tanks we also offered plastic gue-on numbers to help identifying the tanks. Those numbers are also long out of production and out of stock.

Brian,

The blue washers get thrown out. They were used when processing 2x3" film with the divider rack that held 12 sheets of 2x3 film in the carrier. Since the 23 sheet film market virtually disappered several years ago so did the divider rack but the factory kept including the blue washers. Throw them away.

[Brian Schall]

Thanks Bob

Brian

[RichSBV]

Very interesting. Thank you for the replies. So the lid on the new tanks is a flexible rubber material?

So far it sounds more like the tank simply needs some getting used to and learning the correct technique. That wouldn't bother me at all.

However, it's been said a few times that the film can come out of the channels. So how can it survive inversion? I was under the impression that one of the benefits of this tank was being able to use inversion over the slosh technique of non-sealing tanks? Or does the film only come out if inserted a wrong way? This would now seem to be my only remaining concern.

And Bob, as far as the 'nonsense' goes, the phone number I dialed three times on three different days (long distance to boot) was given to me by you. Which 'HP' did you have me connect to? Sorry, not meant as a dig but just expressing my experience and concerns over the 'support'...

[Bob Salomon]

There are two ways to put the film carrier together to get correct results. One is for processing film and the other for processing glass plates.

If you look carefully at the end grooved plates you will see that one side of each plate is curved and the other side has straight grooves.

When processing sheet film both curved sides must face torwards each other. When processing glass plates both straight sides must face each other,

If the Film holder is impropery assembled after cleaning so one curved side faces one straight side the film can come out of the channel.

If the tank is properly assembled and the film clip at the top is not broken or pushed down with too much force (it just needs to kiss the top of the film so the film sheet is within the tooth ) then the film can not come loose. You can easily feel that each sheet is within its bottom tooth on the bottom of the holder as well as in its; own tooth at the top of the holder.



As far as calling us I give an 800 # out so long distance is meaningless to someone trying to call us within the States. It costs you nothing.

800 735-4373.

This number only works in the USA. Distributors for our products in other countries have their numbers for support questions. I am always either available at that number or my cell phone number except for a couple of weeks ago when I came down with a rough case of shingles or when I am out of the country or on vacation. (infrequently).

[robc]

" but that is not quite what is was designed for."

Yes it was.


I stand corrected.

[Christopher Nisperos]

I'm edging toward trying my own B&W development, and though trays are really tempting, I'm sort of inclined toward the HP CombiPlan daylight tank.

Its only $75 through Amazon.com, but my question is whether it is a complete system? I know I will need a timer, thermometer, etc, but want to make sure I get what I need the first time.....are there more parts/stuff to buy to develop B&W with the CombiPlan?

Thank you,

David

Dear David,

"Stuff to buy to develop B&W", is usually found in any decent darkroom manual. Information about parts and accessories for CombiPlan tanks are on the HP Marketing website, the last time I looked. As for the rest:

While I use mostly the Jobo system —which I like very much— I would like to stand up for HP Combi-Plan, which I began using in 1973. It may sound like I'm waffling, but I must honestly tell you that I'm happy to have both styles of tanks. I hope the following will help you:

Loading
I find either system as easy to load as the other, thanks to loading guides available for each system (for the HP, the loading guide is included in the price). For the Jobo system, the loading guide alone (actually, almost a loading system, really) runs nearly $100.00, if my memory is correct. It's well worth it —especially when you have several reels to load— but there you go for the price comparison.

Filling and draining
The Jobo is easier for me to fill, but here's a trick for the HP: turn it on its side and fill it using the drain spout. It fills quicker. Also, just use a slightly bigger funnel than the one which is supplied. For draining, a trick that a friend of mine uses is to keep a black rubber drain hose (with a squeeze valve, as on a cubitainer) permanently attached to the HP tank. Then fast draining is a breeze.

Leaks
I've never had a big leak problem with the HP Combi-Plan, other than when I forgot to put a gasket in place. I will say that it seems to help to replace the lid every several years (They can be ordered seperately). Anyway, my philosophy about small leaks is, who cares? That's why we process in a sink or a tub, isn't it? In any case, latex gloves are wise with chemicals such as pyro, leaks or NOT! Big leaks would be different problem ... but could HP be selling these tanks for over 50 years if this were such a big issue?

A few overlooked plusses for HP Combi-Plan:

- cool, slim design ... fits nicely in your hand

- tiny .. packs well when you want to develop on location

- versatile ... you can even develop glass plates in it!..and store Polaroid
negatives(sniff...although this is no longer as important)

- versatile ...with three or four tanks and a few racks, you have a mini dip-n-dunk line
(though HP doesn't recommend this, I've done it with good results.
Because I have several racks, this method allowed me to develop 30
sheets of film in a very short time)


Summary
While I still mainly use, prefer and recommend the Jobo system, it wouldn't be a "mistake" for someone to start with the Combi-Plan system! For one thing, once you take into consideration the price of the Jobo loading system plus the tank and reel(s), I believe HP wins on the initial price. This is an important point for a beginner who is weighing the use of a tank rather than a tray! However, Jobo wins if you're looking to combine high volume + consistent results. Also —obviously— if you'll want to do machine processing in the future. Question of investment.

In the end, no one developing system is a panacea. Yes, even trays can be preferable to either system, under certain circumstances .. just ask anybody on this forum! Therefore, whichever tank system you begin with, you may well end up buying into the other system sooner than you think!

Good luck and have fun.

Best,

Christopher

.

[RichSBV]

I do genuinely appreciate all the answers here. Unfortunately, my spare photo money was left at the book store today when I mistakenly suggested the wife and I take the kids there to browse for a while. How can I refuse books to kids who want to read?

But after the info offered here, I will most probably pick up the Combiplan tank in a few weeks when finances get back in shape. Then I'll see for myself. It does sound like a system that will do the job.

Thanks again!

[Christopher Nisperos]

I do genuinely appreciate all the answers here. I will most probably pick up the Combiplan tank in a few weeks when finances get back in shape. Thanks again!

... then, when your finances get into even better shape (and when you begin to shoot so many sheets than your CombiPlan gets backlogged), get a Jobo tank too!. Then you'll be able to develop 10 to 12 sheets at a time.

Best,

Christopher

[sawdust_slim]

I've found the Combi-Plan to be a little edgy, too; mostly because it takes so long to fill and empty. I now use the film holder, which works quite well if used properly, alone in a plexiglass dip tank system I glued up (five tanks: water, dev, stop, fix, clearing agent). It must be used dark but that's not a problem. I have my Gralab timer in a closed-in shelf above the sink, shielding its light from the process. I have excellent control over time and produce negatives that I'm very happy with. The C-P tank is useful as a storage location for the loaded films until I'm ready to begin processing them when the temps are right and the lights go out. Works great. I'm going to buy another Combi-Plan as a spare.

[Gene McCluney]

I have used a Combi-PlanT tank for over 25 years, still use the same one. I have developed all kinds of b/w film, as well as C-41 color negative and E-6 transparency film in it. Like any piece of equipment, there is a learning curve to achieve best results. I have a darkroom, so I pre-fill the tank with developer, load the film carrier in the dark and then dunk it in the tank and put on the lid. In this way I avoid the long fill times. In general I flip off the lights and dump developer and fill with several changes of water and then fill with a premeasured beaker of fix also in the dark, but I put on the lid and agitate solutions in the light. When I am developing film in this tank, I also use it to wash the film, by putting a hose from my faucet onto the bottom fitting, allowing the water to rise up and overflow the top of the tank.

If you are filling the tank with the lid off, in the dark, you can determine when the solution is high enough to cover the film, by putting one of your finger tips slightly inside the tank as you hold it in one hand, while pouring in solution with the other hand, when the solution level reaches the level of your finger-tip, it is over the film.

I develop E-6 and C-41 by using a heated water bath around the tank. I use a deep fixing tank for 16x20 prints, which can hold all the solutions in 1/2 gallon bottles and the tank, which I sit on a small riser on the bottom of the tray so the top is above the water line.

[seawolf66]

it only takes 36 oz's to cover the film in combi tank and not have to worry if you got enough in it ! But would recommend you get some used 4x5 film and play with it in the light so as to be able to do it in the Dark : good luck and have fun:

[Nick Kanellos]

I've been using my Combi-Plan for 10 years. It's the only way I process my 4x5 negs. Contrary to some opinions expressed here, the chemistry does not drip down from the fill hole in the lid. It is channeled along the lip of the tank to 4 separate holes (one on each wall) from which it runs down the inside walls of the tank. The film comes in contact with the developer from the bottom up - evenly. It is the equivalent of slowly emersing the film in the developer. It takes about 30 - 40 secs to fill or drain the tank but I've seen no ill effects because of that. I select my developer concentrations to ensure my developing time is never less than 10 minutes - just to be safe. If you are worried, you can also pre-wet your negs.

In the 10 years I've had it, I've had a film come loose inside the tank once or twice. To avoid (or lessen) that possibility, I agitate by rotating the tank along it's narrow edge as opposed to front to back. This keeps any forces due to swishing liquid on the face of the film to a minimum.

Hope this helps.

[gevalia]

I'm going to weigh in here on the Combi Plan tank - from a customers point not a manufacturers pount of view. These views are my own.

I've been using mine here for a year give or take. Twice a week or more. For the 1st few months it leaked like crazy from the sides of the top (yes, washers were in). And it was very difficult to load the developer in a timely manner. 45 seconds to load all developer was frequent.

That being said, I am happy with it now. The leaking has all but stopped. I believe this is due to the rubber top becoming more pliable with age. Over the past 6 months it has gradually leaked less and less to the point where I would say it leaks about as much as a 120 stainless steel tank which is not much at all. As for loading developer, the issue (and I will stand by this) is one of vaccuum. As you pour in liquid, it replaces the air in the tank and that air needs to escape. You can actually hear the air whistling as it escapes which at a certain point it stops doing. And that point is when it starts to load slower and slower. My fool-proof way of loading liquid (15 seconds max) is this:
1. Assumes you already have the funnel on and that the valve (screw) is open as much as the documentation says).
2. As you pour into the funnel, take your thumb (of the hand holding the tank) and press it firmly against the funnel base where it hits the valve. This lets air escape as the liquid is poured in and will not cause a light leak.

I suggest trying this with water a few times 1st. Listen for the air coming out and you will be able to determine how much pressure you will need to put on the valve.

I want to say that I was extremely frustrated in the beginning with this tank. I have no space for a darkroom and have been using 120 SS tanks for a while. I ruined more then a few sheets because it too so darned long to load the developer. Gee, let's factor in a 45 second load time on a 7 minute development time. I was more worried about the pyro that was leaking all over my arms when I agitated. The mfg claim that the design has not changed is one thing but I'll put $$ on the thought that the materials used to make it have. As an engineer, nothing frustrates me more than a company that will not better a product when its customers report issues with it.

[gevalia]

[QUOTE=Nick Kanellos;427389]In the 10 years I've had it, I've had a film come loose inside the tank once or twice. To avoid (or lessen) that possibility, I agitate by rotating the tank along it's narrow edge as opposed to front to back. This keeps any forces due to swishing liquid on the face of the film to a minimum.QUOTE]

Nicks point here is a good one. I have had 2 occassions where a sheet has popped off the track and in both cases it was when I was agitating front to back(along the wide side). Now 2 out of a few hundred is not much but I have not had this problem since I shifted to agitating the way Nick describes.

[Bob Salomon]

The mfg claim that the design has not changed is one thing but I'll put $$ on the thought that the materials used to make it have. As an engineer, nothing frustrates me more than a company that will not better a product when its customers report issues with it.

Then you would lose the bet. The molds were made for the materials that were available when Herr Krause originally designed the tank. The molds require that original material that only BASF makes.

As for your leaking issue. We replace tanks that leak. There should be none at all! Simply send us your tank.

We also have never had anyone report a whistle while filling the tank. Again let us look at your tank to see why.

[Chuck P.]

I use three combi-plan tanks when I develop my film, not in the dip-n-dunk method as described in the article I've seen on the LF home page, too much uneven development with that method for me.

I go dark after the pre-wash, remove the film from the tank used for the pre-wash, insert it in the tank with the developer, install the lid, turn on the lights and start my development.

Go dark again with one minute left in development, remove the the lid gently to avoid sloshing the developer, pull the film from the developer with 10 sec left to let it drain and then insert it in the tank with the stop bath, stay dark for the agitation in stop bath (raise and alternating tilts for about 30-45 sec) and the few seconds it takes to transfer the film to the tank with the fixer.

Install the fixer lid, turn on the lights, finsih the process in daylight. Works like a charm. The only time I use the funnel is when putting water in the pre-wash tank.

I love the Combi-plan tank, leak issues were greatly reduced by shaving the small pieces of plastic remaining on the top edges of the tank from being in the mold so the lid would seat more cleanly. Also, I don't know if this helps, but I mark my lids and tanks with "D", "S", "F" so that the developer lid always gets used with the developer tank, etc...

[Steve_Renwick]

Dang. The Thread That Wouldn't Die.

[ki6mf]

I have 3 of them and have no problems. Pour Time is not a problem provided you are consistent. I like the lower side drain as it lets you wash properly. If you haul them around make sure the lower drain is removed as it can crack off if tossed around.

Usually leaks are a result of not tightening the drains properly. I do open the top and bottom when pouring to help speed up the pour time. If you forget to tighten them you will get leaks. Operator Error every time!