Ebony RW45 with 55 mm Apo-Grandagon

[Helen Bach]

Since changing from my old MPP S92 to an Ebony RW45E I have enjoyed the comparative ease of use of my 80 mm SSXL. I realised that I could now go even wider, but the 65 mm minimum quoted in the Ebony literature is rather close to 80 mm, and not wide enough for the pictures I had in mind.

I reckoned that a 55 mm Apo-Grandagon would work, so I tried one. At infinity there's about 10 mm of front standard extension (minimum bellows extension is around 55 mm, the lens' flange distance is 68 mm) so limited movements are possible. It may not be the easiest camera to use with a 55, but it isn't problematic either.

Best,
Helen

[Eric Woodbury]

I'm seeing similar results with the 58mm SA XL. I have to be careful not to image the front of the camera, but it is possible. The 72mm SA XL is easy.

[Jean-Louis Llech]

Helen,
I don't clearly understand your question (if there is one, of course...)

1°) The Apo-Grandagon 55mm f4.5 0 has a 163mm image circle and a 67.6mm flange focal distance.
2°) The Super-Angulon XL 58mm f5.6 0 has an image circle of 166mm and a 69.3mm flange focal distance.

Considering the minimum bellows extension of your camera ― 60mm ― and the fact that no bag bellows is available for it, the extension with such lenses is very limited : 7,6 to 9,3 mm.

On another hand, you will have limited movements, due to the image circle. A Fidelity sheet film holder has a 97x120 mm exposure window. It means a diagonal of 154,3 mm, to be compared to the 163/166 mm image circle of these two lenses.

Furthermore, if you need to drop the bed, (to avoid it to appear on the film), you will also have to rise and tilt backwards the front standard to compensate the bed drop.

Whatsoever, considering the bellows compression, and even if Ebony bellows is excellent, these movements will be difficult to apply and to control. Vertical shift will be a pain, and probably axis tilts a bit more.

So, why don't you consider to mount the Rodenstock 55 or, I prefer, the Schneider 58XL lens on a recessed lensboard ? I use the 58XL which is an excellent wide-angle lens.

I would suggest to use a Linhof recessed lensboard for Technika 45 with cable release socket for #0 shutters. (Of course fully compatible with Ebony cameras).
This new model (# 001015) is more comfortable than the former 001016 recessed lensboard, as it has extended aperture and pre-view levers, as well as another aperture scale to stick on the front.

You can see an image of this lensboard on the Linhof website, (http://www.linhof.de/english/images/news/Technika_O_Platte_big.jpg) and Linhof's press release (Acrobat .pdf format) here. (http://www.linhof.de/download/photokina_technikakomfortpdf_english.pdf)
Or copy and paste in you Acrobat Reader the following link_http://www.linhof.de/download/photokina_technikakomfortpdf_english.pdf

With this recessed lensboard, you will obtain a bellows supplementary extension of 20 mm, which means more than twice the existing one. Such a comfort is not an inconsequential thing.

Regards.

[Helen Bach]

Hi Jean-Louis,

I think that you must have misunderstood me. The 55 mm works with a flat lens board, and you don't need to drop the bed unless you are using movements. The minimum useful bellows draw of an RW45E is less than 55 mm (49 mm with no movements), not 60 mm as the spec says. Believe me, if I hadn't been happy with the flat board I would have tried a recessed one. I mentioned it here because I had been told that it wouldn't work (I should have asked here first!) and I thought that other people might be interested. Anyway, it's different solutions for different requirements - I rarely use movements with such wide angle lenses.

Thanks for the advice, and
Best wishes,
Helen

[Maris Rusis]

I have a similar problem using a 65mm Nikkor-SW on my Tachihara 45GF. The non interchange bellows are so compressed that swings and tilts are miniscule and shifts impossible.

Solution: I custom mounted the lens into a lensboard with the mounting hole cut as far off centre as would still allow the lens to attach to the camera. Since the Tachihara will accept a square lens board the lens can be inserted four different ways: rise, fall, left shift, right shift.

What I don't get is straight -on centered but since I don't shoot landscapes with the horizon in the middle of the frame (always some rise or fall) this is OK.

[Jean-Louis Llech]

Thanks, Helen. It was an information, not a question. I understand better now.
Whatsoever, what I wrote is valid for people who need to use all movements available with the image circle of the lens. I use the 58XL in 6x9 format, with roll-films, less in 4x5 in (In large format, the SA 72 XL is wide enough for my needs)
About the RW45, do you think that the "normal" bellows is flexible enough for wide angle lenses, or would you have prefered (when you apply movements) a bag bellows ?
I don't clearly understand why Ebony didn't design systematically all their cameras with interchangeable bellows. Price ?

Maris, I thought that Tachihara used "Linhof" type lensboards, 96x99 mm, not square ones.
I saw one time a lensboard with "rotating" hole, which works as yours, but allows a centered position, as well as intermediate shifts.

[Ted Harris]

I am both delighted and surprised that people can use the 58mm lens without any problems on their RW45's. My own experience with a 75mm f5.6 A was not the same. Yes, I was able to ue it with moderate movements but the bellows was tight and I thought that I would start to have problems with a 65 let alone a 58. Additionally, I found the "wide angle" positioning requirement for the standards a bit fiddly. Workable, but fiddly. This was with Ebony's 'universal bellows.'

[Jean-Louis Llech]

The RW45 is an excellent and lightweight camera. But it's a pity that on (not so) "lower" price class cameras, the bellows can't be exchanged.
I am sure that, if it was possible, many photographers would leave the bag bellows permanently on the camera, with wide to moderate focal length lenses, in the 45-180 range.
I don't understand why on low-priced cameras like Shen Hao's, the bellows can be exchanged for a bag bellows, and not on Ebony's.
Did someone asked the question to their factory ?

[Maris Rusis]

Thanks, Helen. It was an information, not a question. I understand better now.
Whatsoever, what I wrote is valid for people who need to use all movements available with the image circle of the lens. I use the 58XL in 6x9 format, with roll-films, less in 4x5 in (In large format, the SA 72 XL is wide enough for my needs)
About the RW45, do you think that the "normal" bellows is flexible enough for wide angle lenses, or would you have prefered (when you apply movements) a bag bellows ?
I don't clearly understand why Ebony didn't design systematically all their cameras with interchangeable bellows. Price ?

Maris, I thought that Tachihara used "Linhof" type lensboards, 96x99 mm, not square ones.
I saw one time a lensboard with "rotating" hole, which works as yours, but allows a centered position, as well as intermediate shifts.
Officially the Tachihara uses a Linhof type board. Unofficially the biggest square board (possibly custom made) that will fit does so four ways and is still light tight.

[Steve Hamley]

Helen,

Thanks for posting this thread. I just traded for a RW45 for the "lightweight" pack versus my regular SV45U. The 55mm Apo Grandagon is a favorite and I will post when I've had a chance to try it out with the 55mm, likely this weekend.

Jean-Louis, yes, in so many words; I've discussed RW45 features with Ian Wilson. I've asked Ian about features I'd like to see on the RW45. I'd like to have bubble levels for use with wides, a friend wanted shift on the front standard of his RW45, you want an interchangeable bellows, and so on. The bottom line is that if you added all the features everyone wanted, you'd have a SV45Ti, U, or U2, and it would cost that much.

However, Ebony do build cameras to specification, and from my experience they just charge their normal price for the features you want, so it isn't all that expensive. It will take a while though. But ask and ye shall receive, just get out the credit card.

Everyone wants a full-featured (or at least with the features they think are important), high-quality, cheap camera. You can have any two but not all three. The RW45 is Ebony's interpretation of the affordable camera for their lineup.

Steve

[Steve Hamley]

Jean-Louis,

Oh yes, thanks for posting the Linhof recessed board info. One issue I had with the 55mm Apo Grandagon on a recessed board is that aperture and shutter speeds were impossible to adjust when using ND grads because the filter blocked access to the shutter. Looks like the Linhof solution would solve that problem.

But I hate to think what it would cost!

Steve