Affordable lenses with ultra-large image circles?

[PSullivan]

Are there any lenses out there capable of giant image circles? Something 2000mm or more without costing a fortune? I have found a few that are capable of it, but so far, the cheap one was $25k USD. I'm hoping someone knows about an obscure lens that I don't need to refinance my house to get.

[Oren Grad]

What is your intended use for this lens?

[PSullivan]

What is your intended use for this lens?

essentially trying to make life size direct positive prints

[peter brooks]

Maybe have a look at Reinhold Schalbe's Wollaston lens for 'Ultra Large Format (Mammoth) Cameras'.

He says coverage is >1830 mm (72”) at 3m (10ft).

https://re-inventedphotoequip.com/reinventedphotoequip/Formats.html


(Reinhold is on this forum I believe but maybe can't advertise his site.)

[jnantz]

If you can’t find something ready made goto someplace like the surplus shed or anchor optical ... buy a PlanoConvex optic and make a barrel for it, then the Waterhouse stops if you want them…… Not too hard ( actually takes about 3 minutes ) .and costs peanuts.. I sometimes make my barrel from corrugated cardboard and use a friction mount... made one for 22x14 ( or bigger) retina prints a while back ...
have fun
John

[Dan Fromm]

Um, OP, let's suppose that you find a 2 meter lens that you can afford. Do you have a camera that will let you shoot at 1:1 and a space that will hold you, the camera and your subject?

Re dimensions. At 1:1 the lens' rear node to film plane distance is 2 focal lengths. You'll need a bellows 4 meters long. At 1:1 the lens' front node to film plane distance is also 2 focal lengths. You'll need a space, if working indoors, that will give you 8 meters for camera and subject plus a bit for you to stand behind the camera.

Re working out doors. You'll need a shutter. If the paper you use instead of film is slow enough the proverbial hat will work. If your subject isn't tied down or very patient and good at holding steady, consider the mechanics of taking a shot. Focus, with no paper in the camera. Compose. Cover the front of the lens. Insert paper holder in camera. Pull dark slide. Uncover lens. Cover lens. Difficult if you work without a crew.

More-or-less what you want to accomplish has been done with 750 mm or so process lenses. Focus on what you want to accomplish, study how others have done it.

[ic-racer]

Any camera lens with 2xFL extension can make a 'LIFE SIZE' image.

[Kiwi7475]

Any camera lens with 2xFL extension can make a 'LIFE SIZE' image.

True but I think OP wants to do life size (ie. 1:1) of a full person. That would drive the coverage to the 1.6-2m he’s asking about, depending on height and posing style.

[paulbarden]

Ask Ian Ruhter how he made his 4x5 foot ambrotypes. He needed a big lens for that.

[Dan Fromm]

True but I think OP wants to do life size (ie. 1:1) of a full person. That would drive the coverage to the 1.6-2m he’s asking about, depending on height and posing style.

Yes, and doing this has implications for dimensions and, um, practicality.

[Dan Fromm]

Ask Ian Ruhter how he made his 4x5 foot ambrotypes. He needed a big lens for that.

Google Richard Learoyd, see his work and apparatus.

[teathomas]

You would also need lights between 8 and 25 times brighter than the sun to shoot at f/5.6 depending on what kind of contrast you’re willing to accept. So your subjects will probably not be willing to take more than a shot or maybe if they’re a masochist two.

[phdgent]

Perhaps experimenting with pin hole might be the answer, and cost effective?

[jnantz]

there is also that fellow who tows that giant trailer that was converted into an obscura .., giant prints that were developed in big pvc pipes ..
I can't remember his name, I do remember the urban landscapes .. really nice, and I think might have had a show at one of the big name LA galleries about IDK 10 years ago ..

[Dan Fromm]

there is also that fellow who tows that giant trailer that was converted into an obscura .., giant prints that were developed in big pvc pipes ..
I can't remember his name, I do remember the urban landscapes .. really nice, and I think might have had a show at one of the big name LA galleries about IDK 10 years ago ..

Dennis Manarchy. His monster camera was a, um, housing. The real operating camera was built in. Silliness and, perhaps, lies.

[John Layton]

Dan I remember that one...and yes indeed - silliness and worse!

[AgNO3]

There are currently two Nikkor Apo 1210mm for sale on ebay, one for just under 7k$ in the US and one for 2.5k€ in Spain (which didn´t sell for the starting price of 999€ before). This would certainly do the job. At 2.5m bellows.

I believe Ruther was using the Nikkor Apo one size larger in 1600mm f 11(?) (or even 1800mm? He taped off the labels and markings. Some times, we´ve thought, the finish of the lens barrel looks slant gray, like the anodized Aero Ektars vs the powdercoated deep black Nikkor barrels...but we never found a source proving the existance of such a long Aero Ektar, the 36" & 45" Kodaks are also a telephoto lens with much smaller image circle/narrower angle).

Ruther´s wet plate ISO1 work in that size required around 10sec exposures under Bombay Beach UV-saturated sun light at noon and a battery of strobes (we´ve estimated 4-6k wattseconds from binge watching every available footage).

A similar Rodenstock prozess lens in 1600mm was recently offered for 16k€ on the German market and disappeared since then.

One could build such a huge camera/dark room (like Ruther´s abandoned house) pretty cheap from a shipping container, considering a 8x10 Chamonix w/out lens and film holder starts at 3.5k€, while a container can be had under 1k€ (when the certificate is expired) and linear guides for heavy lathes make cheap, strong and creamy focussing rails. You´d find space to handle a vertical 1x2m filmholder with two people inside such shipping box. Just be sure about composition. Once it set in place, youd need a crane or a semi-truck to move that thing. So why not directly convert a semitruck trailer? Would be still cheaper (including special driving license) than a custom build ULF camera.

Lacking the driving license for semis, I keep an affordable soviet* 750mm/f9 process lens for a delivery van or camper trailer conversion one day. I onyl managed to shoot 30x40cm plates in my converted 1970s Land Rover S2a 109 with british 20" & 36" aerial lenses, yet...the lenses made for 9x18" negaitves would cover much more at 1:1, but the space inside the 4x4 is limited.

*Arne Croell has published a good overview of soviet glass (which were mostly clones and copies from German optics)

Just do it and show us your progress. We only can learn from each other, if we share the knowledge. Start with naming the lenses you´ve already identified for ULF.

Edit: I give you another one. Look out for episcope lenses in 800mm/f3.6


Nothing new under the sun:
https://www.diyphotography.net/this-photographer-turned-a-shipping-container-into-a-huge-camera-with-a-built-in-darkroom/
I believe, this guy - Brandon Barry - also did a camper trailer and several fruit, veggie and phone booth camera conversions for ULF direct positives and manages to call it art.

[Vaughan]

True but I think OP wants to do life size (ie. 1:1) of a full person. That would drive the coverage to the 1.6-2m he’s asking about, depending on height and posing style.


Yes, and doing this has implications for dimensions and, um, practicality.

Photograms. Get the person to lay down on the paper and expose with a bare bulb from above.

I was gong to suggest cyanotype but the sunscreen the subject will need to cover themselves with for UV protection might mess with the paper.

[Kiwi7475]

Photograms. Get the person to lay down on the paper and expose with a bare bulb from above.

I was gong to suggest cyanotype but the sunscreen the subject will need to cover themselves with for UV protection might mess with the paper.

lol. And why do we think that’s what OP is trying to do?

[FrancisF]

Dennis Manarchy. His monster camera was a, um, housing. The real operating camera was built in. Silliness and, perhaps, lies.

Yes, the form of camera was housing. The photographer stood inside of Dennis Manarchy’s camera to take the photographs on huge sheets of Tri-X. Have seen the camera several times and the images it produced. The portraits are very beautiful and of the highest technical quality. I am standing in front of the camera here.

I thought his decision to make a walk in camera room in the shape of a camera was inspired and a joyful celebration of photography. Very meta and fun. I am sure he could have built something more utilitarian and cheaper but there was no compromise in quality or function. The works need to seen in person to be fully appreciated. Unfortunately, I think the work is rarely shown. But you can get an idea of it on his website.

257718

[Vaughan]

lol. And why do we think that’s what OP is trying to do?

I have strange thoughts, generally.

[jnantz]

Dennis Manarchy. His monster camera was a, um, housing. The real operating camera was built in. Silliness and, perhaps, lies.

I don't think it wasn't him..... I know needle and haystack but ..

.. it was really a romantic long format video on you tube ..
he prepared his gear and paper ..
drove to a vista in the hills of LA dawn
and pulled over ...
set up his camera by fixing a lens board / lens to a fitting
and then
some giant paper maybe 42 inches wide, IDK ..
then
he unloads the media into big wide long PVC tubes and magically develops these giant color paper direct positives ,,
mind blowing ..
Im guessing if the hallmark network wrote a screenplay based on it lots of people would watch Shutterbug in LA ...

[Photomagica]

Bringing this thread back to the quest for a lens, check with Surplus Shed to see when they will have more of these: https://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3919d.html
I used two of these together to make a roughly 2 meter focal length lens for an artist in Canada who wanted a giant camera obscura. I mounted them with the flat sides facing each other and a small space between. This worked surprisingly well.
If a diaphragm or water house stops are desired they may go in the space between the lenses. If a single 2 meter focal length lens is available, that will work about as well. I did manage to get a pair of 6" diameter 4-meter positive meniscus lenses at one point and optically they were slightly better when mounted with the concave sides facing each other, optimal spacing determined by experimentation.

[Tracy Storer]

I don't think it wasn't him..... I know needle and haystack but ..

.. it was really a romantic long format video on you tube ..
he prepared his gear and paper ..
drove to a vista in the hills of LA dawn
and pulled over ...
set up his camera by fixing a lens board / lens to a fitting
and then
some giant paper maybe 42 inches wide, IDK ..
then
he unloads the media into big wide long PVC tubes and magically develops these giant color paper direct positives ,,
mind blowing ..
Im guessing if the hallmark network wrote a screenplay based on it lots of people would watch Shutterbug in LA ...

You might be talking about John Chiara? He went to Grad school in the Bay area, can't remember if it was CCAC or The SF Art Institute.

[Kino]

Swing lens camera with a slit that covers the most narrow side of the aspect ratio of the image you are shooting?

Composite optical lens made up of multiple, overlapping lens image circles?

?????