Pyrocat-HD, Semi Stand Dev, JandC 100 Pro - need help please...

[SAShruby]

Hi,

I recently built my darkroom, and built my tubes for semi stand development.
Last nigt I developed two films JandC 100 Pro, shot in low light scenery.

Exposure: 8x10 inch, 45 min. at F22, Fujinon-W 360 (Light meter indicated Zone III at 4 minutes)

Pre wash: 5 min.
Developed in Pyrocat-HD 10:6:1220 dilution
Agitation 1:15 min constant agitation
11 min stand vertical
15 sec slow agitation by rolling tube horizontally
11:45 stand vertical
15 sec slow agitation by rolling tube horizontally
11:45 stand vertical
After: Inspected after under green light for 5 sec

Stop: Half strength acid bath 30 sec

Fix: TF-4 for 4 minutes
Wash 30 min
FLN wash: 1 min

I am new in developing so I am looking for some unknows they surprised me and I expected different outcome. After pre-wash, my water was blue, like really blue, scary blue. Is it normal?
Also, I've got brownish-greyish stain on my negatives, uneven, which was stronger on the edges of the negative, and lighter in the middle of it. I would mention that my Pyrocat-HD stock solutions were mixed last week, stored in brown glass bottles. The A solution had yesterday very slight pinkish color, but the B stock had moderate, I'd say 81A filter color. Is this stain good? Is it desirable stain?:confused:
I do have densitometer and I did not measured it yet, but I will, I am in the processs to buy scanner so I will post picture later.

Furthermore, I am waiting for amidol from Greg so i can't print it on the azo yet. I look forward to hear any suggestions or comments.

[John Z.]

A couple of thoughts based on my experience:

The blue color in the wash is normal; this is the color of the dye on the back surface of the film being washed off.
The color of your developing agents sounds normal too.
The negs could be printed on AZO or other papers using other standard developers; you do not have to wait for the Amidol!
The main issue you have really is the uneven development; this is always a concern in stand or semi-stand development. The first thing you should try is increasing the frequency and amount of agitation of your development stages, and see how it works. Good luck!

John

[Scott Davis]

Pretty much everything you said sounds normal and to be expected, minus the unevenness in the middle of the negative. The whole point of Pyro development is to get the brownish (in this case, since you're using Pyrocat HD) stain. One thing I would try is to use a strictly water bath stop, not any acid at all. Give the negs about a 2 minute flush with room temperature slow-running water, instead of an acid stop. The acid stop will eat into some of that stain, and could be a contributing or even significant factor in the unevenness of the stain. I have found that deep-tank development for 8x10 film in the stainless hangers works very well with semi-stand.

[SAShruby]

Thanks John,

Is brownish - greyish fog desirable? Also my negative came out very thin (low densities) with lots of this fog. I thought 40 minutes would be sufficient for exposure but to my surprise it was not even close. I would say all my negative has film base + fog about 1.6. Is this what you looking for if you want to print on AZO?

[j.e.simmons]

I have not tried JandC Pro 100 with Pyrocat HD - I'm trying it now with Hypercat. I have, though, used Pyrocat HD for several years with other films.

First, the color - the blue in this film seems to be harder to remove than the anti-halation dye on other films. I now pre-soak in at least two baths to get rid of it. Otherwise, my experience is that it remains all the way through fix and washing.

I have to wonder if the brownish-greyish color you are seeing is the result of remaining anti-halation dye plus the normal brownish stain of Pyrocat HD. I'd suggest a more through pre-soak, even multiple baths, to be sure all of the dye is gone before development.

I got uneven development when I first tried minimal agitation - I got more development on the ends of the negatives than in the center. I solved it by agitating more vigorously during the agitation periods. I'd suggest you include fully inverting the tubes when you agitate - do more than gently spinning the tubes.
juan

[SAShruby]

That is great news, at least I know I'm not too much off. I can confirm, after I removed film from developer, developer had a little blue cast. At least I know I have to wash more thoroughly.
Tonite, I will do another couple shots (low light shot) and I will try them tommorow to agitate it more vigorously. Still, reciprocity is little bit big. Does anybody has similar experience?

Thanks so far. If anybody has another times and dilutions to process this JandC 100 Pro, I would like to hear it.

[SAShruby]

One other question, What is the best alternative print developer to print AZO close to Amidol developer?

Thank in advance.

[j.e.simmons]

I like Ansco/Agfa 130 (sold by Photo Formulary as PF-130) - it's not the same as amidol, but develops a similar dmax. IIRC, Sandy King published some curves on APUG. I find it gives a slightly warmer tone than amidol - a tone that I prefer with some images.
juan

[Donald Qualls]

One thing I'd suggest with tube development -- if the tubes let the base side of the film rest against the inner tube surface (as opposed to having a textured surface or some means of supporting the film away from the tube wall), with films that give off a lot of dye in the presoak or developer you'll likely find the dye doesn't fully clear from the film. Two ways around this. One is to fix in a tray, in room light (after the stop bath, there's no longer development going on and unless you return to developer, you won't fog the film); the other is to soak the films in hypo clearing agent or sodium sulfite solution (I use 2% sulfite with one teaspoon of washing soda per quart). Either will remove the residual dye from the back of the film, which might be part of the grayish component of the fog you're seeing in your films.

Also, don't change your development for future batches until you're resoaked (to remove any remaining dye), rewashed, and printed these negatives. It's very common for staining developers to produce negatives that look quite thin to the eye, but print very well, and trying to develop them long enough to give eyeball "correct" density will result in excessive contrast for printing. This happens because the stain preferentially absorbs blue light, which means it appears as increased density to enlarging paper (it will also look like reduced contrast to multigrade types, proportional to density, which can compress highlights).

Unrelated to this, but specific to Pro 100 film, the recommendation for this film is to avoid acid stop bath, to prevent the sudden change of pH causing pinholes and bubbles in the emulsion. Water stop is preferred, 2-3 changes with agitation, though if you use a neutral to alkaline fixer on a one-shot basis you could go directly from developer to fixer -- however, you wouldn't want to fix in room light with alkaline fixer without an intervening stop bath or wash. Careful temperature control is also very helpful with Pro 100; maintain temperature within about 2 F from one bath to the next to avoid reticulation, and keep all baths at or below 68 F to avoid oversoftening the emulsion. Good film at a good price, if you handle it carefully... :)

[John Berry]

I have done J&C 100 in pyrocat-hd. If it wasn't for the number of complaints I have read about QC I might be inclined to make it my standard. Throws a beautifil neg. I made some clear acrylic tanks, so that I could watch them develop with my night vision goggles. 10.5 X 10.5 X 2.5 is just right for 4L. I use 1.5:1:100 as per Sandys recomendation. Times for DR of 1.6 for Azo is 5 minute presoak, 23 min @ 72 degrees one agitation sequence half way thru. 30 second dunk with agitation water only, don't need no more, and 3 min in TF-4. (says on TF-4 not to use stop bath ) Negs are clear in thirty seconds. I know cuz I watch it. Then it's lights on for the rest of the fix. Washed with soak and change. 5 minium. usually get color with the first 3. LFN, than hang'um. Donald is right about how negs might look thinner than you're used too.

[SAShruby]

Well then, thanks for posts, I'll go shooting tonite one more time the same scenery. As I said I will do more presoak to clean dyes completely and do more agitation to see if I'll get even negs. I measured my negs with densitometer and B+F Densitiy in UV channel is 1.1, Dmax is 2.67.

Regarding Ansco/Agfa 130, I still would like to start with Amidol, I invested lost of money to buy chemicals, but Amidol id going to be from Greg. Can anybody sell me 100g of amidol? I would appreciate it. Photo Formulary will not ship it to Canada and JD Photochem does not have it until July 15th.

Thanks for the help.

[chris_4622]

Try Artcraft Chemicals, I'm not sure if they ship to Canada though.

[John Berry]

Well then, thanks for posts, I'll go shooting tonite one more time the same scenery. As I said I will do more presoak to clean dyes completely and do more agitation to see if I'll get even negs. I measured my negs with densitometer and B+F Densitiy in UV channel is 1.1, Dmax is 2.67.

Regarding Ansco/Agfa 130, I still would like to start with Amidol, I invested lost of money to buy chemicals, but Amidol id going to be from Greg. Can anybody sell me 100g of amidol? I would appreciate it. Photo Formulary will not ship it to Canada and JD Photochem does not have it until July 15th.

Thanks for the help. How does the dmax and fb+f read in the blue channel? It seems WAY to high to me. In the blue channel you want a DR of 1.6-1.7. Till the amidol gets here you can play with other paper and developer combos. I have changed my developing times to fit #3 azo so they are more usable in my coldlight enlarger. Granted, not as good as azo but not bad either.

[Amund BLix Aaeng]

Try Artcraft Chemicals, I'm not sure if they ship to Canada though.

They ship to Norway, Canada shouldn`t be a problem. :)

[SAShruby]

Amidol is on its way to me.

[SAShruby]

John,

I do not have color densitometer, so I don't know. I have Xrite T-361. Measures only in Ortho and UV channel.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Are you sure your tubes are light tight? Have you tested them?
If your are certain that they are then you need to adjust how you are doing stand development. I use HP5+ with great success standing in tubes. For each agitation cycle, remove the film (with the lights off of course), invert it and re-incert it. Stand development doesn't work very well if you have large even toned areas in the negative such as a clear sky. My rest periods are 15, sometimes 20 minutes.