Request for another standard view

[robc]

I find it increasingly annoying that for sale / wanted posts appear in the unified view and daily posts view.
Sure I can set up a favourite to stop that but it means going to favourites to select it.

Would it be possible to have a link on your standard menu bar that unifies just the "LF Forums" and call it something like Core Forums?

e.g. do=getdaily&days=30&exclude=28,4,5,27,17,22,18,16

and nice to have would be to move Annoucements into "Community" at the same time

Thanks

p.s. just getting picky now...

[Tom Westbrook]

You could add it to your browser's menu bar. Unless there's enough demand, I'd be reluctant to add more stuff to the menu. Maybe in Quick Links, but that's not going to be any easier for you to use than setting a link up in your browser.

[robc]

Now's your chance. Get that demand online...

[Michael Mutmansky]

I would like to request that the interface be set up so that individual forums be selected for visibility by the user, and stored as part of their profile.

Frankly, I do not have an issue with the FS/WTB posts at the moment as there aren't too many of them, but I strongly feel that off topic posts (the Lounge) have no place on this forum, and I especially do not want to see them in any form. The Lounge in particular was the primary reason I was unhappy with the migration to this new interface, because I knew it would be a part of the new interface.

So, if the Lounge is to remain on this site, can we at least make it possible to remove it from view for those of us who think this site should actually be for discussions of LF photography and related topics?


---Michael

[Bob McCarthy]

I'm new to the forum and don't feel like I should have an opinion yet. But, the best forums allow the personality of the individual to come through loud and clear. Respectful dissention (tolerance) makes for a community, tribal warfare (think DPReview) is a killer of community.

I think I can offer that this is one of the better, more personable communities I frequent. Things for sale and the "lounge" are perfectable acceptable for a community to share in my opinion.

Bob

[Tom Westbrook]

I'll ask the vBulletin developers if that's a function they might consider adding, but it's not available currently other than through a search filter as described elsewhere.


I would like to request that the interface be set up so that individual forums be selected for visibility by the user, and stored as part of their profile.

[Michael Mutmansky]

Tom,

Is this the same software that APUG uses? I thought it was, but maybe not. If so, they have that functionality and it works very well over there. If not, I suppose I'll deal with it. Regardless, I am not especially happy that we are now permitting OT discussions to run rampant as appears to be happening in the Lounge.

I don't belive in sterilizing anyone's personality, but there are some people who just cannot seem to remain on topic and feel the need to drag down a forum with their own political or other OT views. The fact that this forum has been a refuge from most OT personalities (for the most part, and with specific exceptions) is what makes it friendly and worthwhile participating in (for the most part and with specific exceptions as well).

Personalities that bounce from forum to forum getting kicked off along the way should not find a 'home' here, but to the detriment of this forum as a whole. The Lounge will permit that to a certain extent, unfortunately, until they cross the line so strongly that they be banned. By that time, they may have left a path of destruction like a tornado. I'd prefer to not see that happen.


---Michael

[Ralph Barker]

Michael - Sean is using an older version of vBulletin, but had done extensive custom modifications over the last several years. Unfortunately, all of those modifications now have to be redone (several weeks of almost full-time work, apparently) in order for APUG to upgrade to the current version. That's what we're trying to avoid by staying with standard vBulletin features. Please remember, too, that this site is non-commercial, and operated with volunteer time.

[Henry Ambrose]

I could do without the Lounge even though I've been posting there. In fact, I'd be happy for it to be gone as I agree that it drags the whole forum down.

Somehow I can't leave some political threads unanswered. I suppose that I could also choose to ignore them but then I'm on a forum that contains what I consider to be statements that embarass me by association. I know that there are folks here who find my politics just as bizarre.

I guess its kinda like being seen at a political rally - its easy to think that because someone is present they must support those guys. My response is like showing up with a sign that says "I'm not one of them" So, I'm a protester in attendance and surprised because I didn't even know I was going to a political rally.

It would easier to get along if we pretend we're at dinner at someone's home. There we could talk about photography, art, how nice the wine and food is and have a nice evening or we could start shouting at each other about politics and end up going home in a huff. I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable about what's happening on the Lounge right now. Nice folks disagreeing without too much strife so far but I can see the ante rising and I'm pretty sure we're not far from name calling and being permanently pissed off at a fellow forum member who said something that rubbed one or more of us the wrong way.

We'll probably all get along better if we just leave politics out of the Forum entirely.
So, I say "delete the Lounge!"
Let's just talk about Large Format photography here.

[Michael Mutmansky]

Henry,

I think we are in complete agreement on this issue. I don't know your politics, since I avoid those posts, and I'd just as soon keep it that way, as it seems to me to only serve to divide people.

Seriously, I don't want my posts in this forum to be in any way affiliated with politics of any kind, whether I disagree with them or not. I also don't want my posts affiliated with posts on religion, sports, social issues, and any other non-photographic subject that tends to be divisive. Permitting the Lounge to range over any topic essentially opens this forum and all it's members up to 'guilt by association' when a Google search is made. That may be more than I am willing to accept.

Since I post using my true identity, I feel I have an obligation to post my input in a place where I do not have to apologize for the behavior of others on the same forum as it cheapens my own contributions. It's part of why I don't post too much on APUG much anymore, and also why I have scaled back on posts here as well.


---Michael

[Bob McCarthy]

Can the lounge be moderated?

Some of the humor, etc can be quite entertaining<G>.

Bob

[Ralph Barker]

The problem that the Lounge attempts to address, at the request of numerous people, is that in the past the political discussions found a way of weaving themselves into otherwise useful threads and within the body of otherwise useful posts. As a result, tainted threads often had to be deleted, as deleting only the political comments was near impossible, and far too time consuming.

It is, however, an experiment - a single section in which those so inclined can express opinions on topics that would otherwise be inappropriate. If the Lounge becomes too disruptive, or spills into the other topic areas, I suspect we'll kill it.

I think we should be careful about carrying the "guilt by association" thing too far, however. Is it worse, for example, to be associated with people who have differing political opinions, or to be associated with people who have silly ideas about art, or have ill-founded photographic opinions? ;)

[Oren Grad]

Ralph, FWIW, from this vantage point the Lounge seems to have been largely successful so far in compartmentalizing such discussions. It used to be that all one had to do was drop the name "Robert Adams" and off we went, whatever the nominal topic of the thread... ;)

I hope that at some point vBulletin will support fully customized user views without major surgery, so that we can put this one to bed once and for all. But at least for now, I think the results of the experiment are positive on balance.

[Capocheny]

I also agree with Michael, Henry, and Oren... political discussions tend to evolve into debilitating and annoying threads that are capable of dragging a great forum down into the dumps.

But, for the most parts, I'm also capapble of ignoring threads (and participants) who I don't want to interact with. If you choose to... it's pretty easy to do! :)

Changing the software would probably not only be time consuming but also... very costly as well!

Lastly, having a hall monitor to ensure that the children behave in the Lounge Forum is reminiescent of elementary school days. Is that what we really need? :>|

As for the buy-sell-trade postings, I don't have a problem with them. But, at the end of the day, it does make some sense to have a method of seggregating them from the "purely photography-oriented" postings.

Just my 2.2 cents worth! :)

Cheers

[Jim Rice]

I happen to agree with Ralph, Oren et al. If a post offends you it really isn't that difficult to ignore it. I have no reputation to protect, so it is possible that I'm missing something here. OTOH my WTB post has provided a road toward truely claiming membership here again. How sucky is that?

[Bill_1856]

what's the Lounge?

[Michael Mutmansky]

As for the buy-sell-trade postings, I don't have a problem with them. But, at the end of the day, it does make some sense to have a method of seggregating them from the "purely photography-oriented" postings.



In particular, do the buy/sell ads have an expiration date? Do we mark them as non-archived in some manner so they disappear from the once they become old and disused?

Let me respond to Ralph's comment about 'guilt by association' since I made the point and stress it as important. I don't want to be in any way associated with devicive public statements that reflect bigotry, xenophobia, religious intolerance and especially preference for the Yankees (see note below). There are plenty of places on the web that tolerate and support people who feel like acting or stating these kinds of beliefs, and I wish to have absolutely no part of them.

Unfortunately, putting a member on the ignore list is not sufficient, nor is blocking the sub-forum (which Tom has done for me; thank you) because the rest of the world can and will access this forum through search engines that will not discriminate between intellegent LF discussion and the incessant raving of people with an OT ideology to expound.


---Michael

Please Note: I could care less about the Yankees either way

[Bill_1856]

What's the Lounge? I don't see it on the header.

[resummerfield]

While we're talking about improvements......

APUG does have one great feature.... Under THREAD TOOLS is an option to ignore a thread. So when you open a thread and see it is going nowhere, you can simply click on IGNORE THIS THREAD and be done with it. Forever.

Could we get that feature here?

[Henry Ambrose]

................ because the rest of the world can and will access this forum through search engines that will not discriminate between intellegent LF discussion and the incessant raving of people with an ideaology to expound.

It is the incessant raving. And I'll add from any position; left, right, middle, its all kind of spam to me. If I want that I can find it on the "incessant raving' forum.

I think the Buy & Sell is a great and useful feature. Just let them roll off into oblivion after 30 days.

[Henry Ambrose]

Oh yeah, I'm back over at the Lounge. I really want to see if it CAN lead to something productive.

[tim atherton]

Unfortunately, putting a member on the ignore list is not sufficient, nor is blocking the sub-forum (which Tom has done for me; thank you) because the rest of the world can and will access this forum through search engines that will not discriminate between intellegent LF discussion and the incessant raving of people with an OT ideology to expound.


I really don't think anyone cares that much. And if we think they do, we probably have a bigger problem than we realise

[tim atherton]

In fact, personally I find the perennial ravings of the pyro nuts (along with a couple of other ongoing personal techno-geek feuds) far more embarrassing than any of the political stuff - which is no different than what you can heart any day in any bar or coffee shop all over N America.

Film vs. digital has nothing on it once the pyro is out of the cupboard...

And Oren - I really thought we'd thrashed that "I don't get Robert Adams" thing out of you once and for all... :-)

[Jim Chinn]

Over on APUG the lounge was a nice little feature that basically turned into a monster around summer of 04 prior to the elections. And believe me it got real UGLY. So Sean set up a forum called the "soapbox" with a basic hands off approach and warning to participants about the content which was pretty much political in nature. All political threads go there or if a regular post goes in that direction it is moved there. You had the option to "turn it off" so it would not show in the new posts list.

But... After about a year the soapbox got even uglier. And as new members came on board they would find these ugly, virulent threads which had nothing to do with photography, basically the same handfull of people arguing and name calling.

So at this time the soapbox threads do not show up at all unless you physically go in and "turn it on" as one of your forum options. This way new members or guests do not "stumble" onto the more ugly non-photographic discussions.

So from my experience on APUG (and I am sure others can back this up) it becomes all to easy for the lounge to deteriorate and pull down the rest of the site. I am not advocating eliminating the lounge. APUG still has one and it is a pretty good forum with the moderators moving more explosive threads to the soapbox. But be prepared for some serious moderation if it gets out of control. (And it will eventually.)

[Oren Grad]

In fact, personally I find the perennial ravings of the pyro nuts (along with a couple of other ongoing personal techno-geek feuds) far more embarrassing than any of the political stuff - which is no different than what you can heart any day in any bar or coffee shop all over N America.

I agree. At least on the political stuff, people these days are debating life and death and the fate of nations, which are things worth holding strong views about. There's something about pyro that seems to elicit a certain mania...


And Oren - I really thought we'd thrashed that "I don't get Robert Adams" thing out of you once and for all... :-)

Hey Tim, as promised many moons ago, I finally did get around to acquiring a copy of Beauty in Photography, and I'm looking forward to reading it as a follow-up to Why People Photograph. Whatever else one can say, he's such an amazing writer... Also spent some time recently studying the catalog from the Ansel 'n' Robert show that was held at the Addison Gallery in Andover a few years back. The usual art-crit nonsense in the accompanying essays aside ;) , 'twas well worth the time.

Cheers...

[QT Luong]

I would support (if possible) replacing the "Unified View" link with a "Unified Core View" or something like that, which would exclude the Lounge and the Classifieds. As for the Lounge users, if you enjoy it, try to behave so that you will still have it :-)

[Sal Santamaura]

The problem that the Lounge attempts to address, at the request of numerous people, is that in the past the political discussions found a way of weaving themselves into otherwise useful threads and within the body of otherwise useful posts. As a result, tainted threads often had to be deleted, as deleting only the political comments was near impossible, and far too time consuming.IMHO, the migration to vBulletin and its "registered user" system solves that for you. A plan:

Deep-six The Lounge
Ban political discussions from Large Format Photography threads (the only categories left!)
After three strikes, permanently banish violators.

Let's stop wasting Brian's bandwidth. There's plenty of futile yelling between factions on TV; we don't need it here.

[robc]

I would support (if possible) replacing the "Unified View" link with a "Unified Core View" or something like that, which would exclude the Lounge and the Classifieds. As for the Lounge users, if you enjoy it, try to behave so that you will still have it :-)

If there is not enough space on the main nav bar then I think it would only be a little change to modify the templates so that each of the main forum header bars had a unify link for its sub forums. That would not cause space problems on the main nav bar but it would probably be easier to change the main nav bar template so that it goes multiline, giving much more space and it would leave a link to unified core forums visible at all times.

just thinking out loud here...