90mm vs. 100mm 4x5

[Csholl]

Hi,

I'm looking into getting another lens for my 4x5. My question is, can you do movements still with a 90mm lens vs say 100mm lens or 105mm lens without vignetting? I'm looking at either one, in particular the fujinon lenses. Should I have preference over another?

[Drew Wiley]

There are a number of 90's to choose from which are classified as super-wide angle, which have an ample image circle allowing generous movements. On the other hand, all the 105's I can think of have a more limited angle of view, and will just barely cover 4x5, if at all. That applies to Fuji lenses too. Go to the relevant manufacturer specification sheets for any details. Kerry Thalmann's website still has the last two Fuji brochures on it.

Be aware the superwides are relatively big and heavy, and will require bigger diameter filters. There are a couple ways to mitigate this. You can choose the 90 f/8 wide angle lens instead of the bigger f/5.6 90 - more practical in the field, but not as bright for architectural interiors if you have that in mind. Wide angle lenses in general tend to give you a "stretched" view toward the corners, with more illumination falloff than regular lenses.

The other option is to get a petite 125/5.6 regular Fuji lens instead. It still won't give you anywhere near as much wiggle room for movement as a 90 super-wide, but distinctly more than a 105.

[waterlenz]

Yes if the 90 etc. is a superwide such as a Fuji SW and SWD, Nikon SW, Rodenstock Grandagon or Schneider Super Angulon. But no for the ordinary Angulon (no word super). You must look up the coverage for each lens given in tables provided by the manufacturers as well as a few web sites.

[xkaes]

There are a number of 90's to choose from which are classified as super-wide angle, which have an ample image circle allowing generous movements. On the other hand, all the 105's I can think of have a more limited angle of view, and will just barely cover 4x5, if at all. That applies to Fuji lenses too. Go to the relevant manufacturer specification sheets for any details. Kerry Thalmann's website still has the last two Fuji brochures on it.

Be aware the superwides are relatively big and heavy, and will require bigger diameter filters. There are a couple ways to mitigate this. You can choose the 90 f/8 wide angle lens instead of the bigger f/5.6 90 - more practical in the field, but not as bright for architectural interiors if you have that in mind. Wide angle lenses in general tend to give you a "stretched" view toward the corners, with more illumination falloff than regular lenses.

The other option is to get a petite 125/5.6 regular Fuji lens instead. It still won't give you anywhere near as much wiggle room for movement as a 90 super-wide, but distinctly more than a 105.

Fuji made TWO 105mm f8 lenses with 250mm image circles. Way too big for my back -- or my camera's front! I opt for the Fuji CM-W 105mm f5.6 which is small & light, but a much smaller IC. Depending on what you shoot that might be a problem. For details on the FUJI line-up, check out:

www.subclub.org/fujinon (http://www.subclub.org/fujinon)

[Mick Fagan]

I have the Fujinon f/8 SW 90mm lens, it is superb as a general purpose 90mm lens.

Fast enough to see when doing interior stuff, and my eyesight these days has very bad night light capability compared to decades ago.

It isn't that big, but on the other hand it isn't that small, but it has coverage in spades. This image is with about 22mm rear shift, which at this level is noticeable from the front. This was a landscape format, so on the long side and coverage to spare.

It works extremely well with the standard bellows on my Shen Hoa HZX45-IIA wooden folder, but if you are going to use reasonably large movements, as in here, then a bag bellows will ensure you don't damage your bellows. I've used 34mm front rise and about 10mm rear shift on an architectural image and coverage wasn't an issue at all.

Crucially for me, it uses a 67mm filter.

Fuji suggest this lens is designed to be used on a 5x7" camera, so for 4x5", it romps it in.

254712

[dave_whatever]

With the exception of the heavy-on-the-back Fuji 105/8 and the heavy-on-the-wallet SSXL 110/5.6, most of the lenses you will see around the 100-105mm mark were designed as normal lenses for 6x9 medium format, hence tend to only just cover 5x4”.

TL;DR - get a 90mm.

[neil poulsen]

Consider getting a Nikon 90mm f8 SW. This lens has the same image circle (235mm) as most f5.6 SW's. The f8 version is also lighter in weight and smaller

I have both this lens and the 105mm Fuji f8 SW for 4x5 photography. (I like having a focal length between my 90mm SW and my 121mm Super Angolan.) For medium format on my 6x9 camera, I use a 100mm f5.6 Apo Simmer.

[Mark Sampson]

I'll second Mr. Poulsen's advice. I've been using a 90/8 Nikkor-SW for over thirty years now, and it has always delivered the goods. It was my most-used lens when I was shooting architecture professionally, and will keep it for as long as I use a 4x5 camera.
I think (based on this experience) that the newer "XL" designs, while superb optically, would mostly be useful if you plan to shoot skyscrapers.
I also own a (much older) Kodak 100/6.3 Wide Feld Ektar. A small and very sharp lens but it barely covers 4x5.

[Steve Goldstein]

Just a bit more on the two versions of the 105mm f/8 Fujinon-SW...

The first version is single-coated and takes 67mm filters. Mine is in a Seiko 0 shutter and weighs 425 grams (almost exactly 15 ounces) with caps and retaining ring.

The later version is multi-coated and takes 77mm filters. I believe it was only ever offered in a Copal 0 shutter. The one I had an opportunity to weigh came in at 602 grams, a bit over 21 ounces, again with caps and retaining ring.

Both versions have the same 250mm image circle at f/22, which is ample for 5x7 as long as you don't go totally berserk with movements, and would be fine for 4x5.

You can save a good bit of weight (remember that 77mm filters weigh more than 67mm filters) if you don't need multi-coating.

PS - Mark Sampson mentioned the 100mm Wide-Field Ektar. Mine weighs 210 grams in its Supermatic shutter, significantly less than the 360 gram 90mm f/8 Nikkor-SW and the even heavier 105mm Fujinon-SW. I usually carry my 100mm WFE, leaving the Fujinon-SW at home unless I know I'm likely to need a lot of movement (typically rise) for a particular subject. The WFE works for me on 4x5 for the subjects and settings I normally photograph.

PPS - There was also a 108mm f/12.5 Wollensak that was stated to cover 5x7. I'm not sure if it there was also an f/9.5 like there was for the 159mm.

[Lachlan 717]

If you’re going with the wider focal length, I’d suggest the 90mm f6.3 options.

Nice blend of speed and size (lighter than the 5.6 options and brighter than the f8 options).

[Drew Wiley]

It's hard to find complete specs on older Fuji lenses. The Subclub site hasn't opened up for me in a long time. The two 100's Xkaes mentioned are themselves superwides, so expect the weight and bulk comparable to their subsequent 90 SW.

The CMW 105 is the last of their regular plasmat series, and still rather skimpy on image circle when it comes to 4x5 (limited movements). What I find odd about it is the big funnel front which requires 67mm filters, whereas its predecessor NW 105 had a tiny 46mm front thread, easily adaptable to common compact 52mm filters.

My only 105 is the Nikkon M f/3.5 tessar version, a wonderful tiny optic for 6x9 roll film, but with far too small an image circle for 4x5. On the other hand, my 90/4.5 SW Nikon lens had a huge image circle.

[Vaidotas]

Wollensak made lightweight wide angle lens in this FL.
Www.alphaxbetax.com has all the spec. and despite that it’s easy to get lost in Wollensak nomenclature.
I’m using Extreme wide angle series IIIa 4 1/4 f12.5
It weights nothing and covers whole plate stopped down.
F9 when limiting screw by aperture lever is removed.
Mine is coated and and very good performer.

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?174500-Contest-Lightest-LF-Carry&p=1695797&viewfull=1#post1695797

[Chauncey Walden]

I use the Ilex/Calumet 90mm f/8 Wide Field Caltar (also sold as the Acugon) on my 5x7 along with the Fujinon 105 f/8 SW (67mm).

[Kevin Crisp]

The f:8 Nikkor covers 5x7 and is readily available. If you really want transportable and a little bit longer, the 108mm Wollensak (get the later coated one) will give you movements too. The Wollensak is harder to find. It isn't a fast lens.

[Conrad . Marvin]

The f8 90mm Goerz WA Dagor has served me well for decades when I wanted a tiny, light weight lens and is plenty sharp with some movements for 4x5. (I have made 20 x 24 prints from negatives made with this lens)

[ic-racer]

100/105mm is not a commonly manufactured lens for 4x5 format. As pointed out above, 105mm is usually manufactured and sold as a 6x9cm format Normal lens.
100/105mm lenses that can be used as a Wide Angle on 4x5" are out there, but there are thousands more 90mm lenses. So go for a 90mm.

[xkaes]

Most of the 90mm lenses have image circles that are overkill for many 4x5" users -- in addition to the substantially greater size, weight, and price tag. Here's an incomplete comparison -- which lacks the size & weight, and price. The IC is on the far right:

Schneider Super-Angulon XL 90 f/5.6 f/45 259
Fuji Fujinon SWD 90 f/5.6 f/64 236
Rodenstock Grandagon N 90 f/4.5 f/45 236
Nikon Nikkor SW 90 f/8 f/64 235
Nikon Nikkor SW (specs @ f/16) 90 f/4.5 f/45 235
Schneider Super-Angulon 90 f/5.6 f/45 235
Rodenstock Grandagon N 90 f/6.8 f/45 221
Fuji Fujinon SW 90 f/8 f/45 216
Schneider Super-Angulon 90 f/8 f/45 216


Rodenstock APO-Sironar N 100 f/5.6 f/64 151
Schneider APO-Symmar 100 f/5.6 f/64 145
Fuji Fujinon SW 105 f/8 f/45 250
Fuji Fujinon NSW 105 f/8 f/45 250
Fuji Fujinon NW 105 f/5.6 f/45 162
Fuji Fujinon CM-W 105 f/5.6 f/45 174
Nikon Nikkor W 105 f/5.6 f/45 155

[ic-racer]

Nice list. Yes that Fuji 105 would be a nice lens if one really wanted 105 over 90.

254767

[rfesk]

The Kodak Wide Field 100/6.3 is an older but good wide angle lens with adequate coverage for 4x5 with some movements.