AKTYN chemical (Poznan) available on Allegro

[landstrykere]

for us in Europe hunting for shops sellings raw chemicals, AKTYN was an option sometimes but required direct contact in Polish.
The other day I needed to buy some phenidone, and instead of just ordering from Saban Suvatlar in Hamburg, I decided to comb the net again. I have an account on Allegro.pl, and now ATKYN sells there, so it's fast automated process..
I bought 100g of phenidone for 60 zł. Not bad. DHL shipment to Sweden was 54 zł, shipment one week.

their Allegro store, with staples: metol, hydroquinone, phenidone, pyrogallol, benzotriazol, boric acid, potassium bromide, amidol, sodium thiosulfate, sodium sulfite, ... :
https://allegro.pl/uzytkownik/AKTYN_POZNAN/sklep

[Vaidotas]

Wow.
Very helpful information, thanks for sharing.

[landstrykere]

Hope it'll useful . There was since long another raw chemicals company selling on Allegro, WarChem (https://warchem.pl/) but they ship only domestic. AKTYN shops inside all EU.

Packaging matches the pictures on Allegro, it's not a plastic pouch, at least for 100g. The HDPE bottle came with some crumpled paper sheet around and a regular small receipt, inside a basic cardbox,

https://i.postimg.cc/L9jnQfLP/Aktyn-fenidon.jpg


I have ordered 100g pyrogallol and 500g hydroquinone, so waiting monday to read if they have requirements. The recent EU directive sets limitations on sale of these. Some online shops sell only to business. Manis in Athens requires now a VAT number.

[landstrykere]

so, I received another order.

hydrochinone no problem. I bought 500g just in case..

https://i.postimg.cc/WTXV299S/Aktyn-paket.jpg

[surfnturf]

Hello, I'm new to the forum - i had bad experiences in the past ordering Phenidone from synthetikaeu.com, also a polish company. It definetly was not fresh phenidone (idk if it was any kind of Phenidone, i couldn't perform any analysis on it) and neither was soluble in propyleneglycol nor developing added to a known working formula.
Have you tried the raw chemicals in an active developer? Hence i have not found any information on this topic (and no mentioning of AKTYN on any other site) I'd be happy to get some feedback before I order some from AKTYN.

Thank you all in advance

[Bernard_L]

for us in Europe hunting for shops sellings raw chemicals, AKTYN was an option sometimes but required direct contact in Polish.
The other day I needed to buy some phenidone, and instead of just ordering from Saban Suvatlar in Hamburg, I decided to comb the net again. I have an account on Allegro.pl, and now ATKYN sells there, so it's fast automated process..
I bought 100g of phenidone for 60 zł. Not bad. DHL shipment to Sweden was 54 zł, shipment one week.

their Allegro store, with staples: metol, hydroquinone, phenidone, pyrogallol, benzotriazol, boric acid, potassium bromide, amidol, sodium thiosulfate, sodium sulfite, ... :
https://allegro.pl/uzytkownik/AKTYN_POZNAN/sklep

Looks like they have good prices. But to search for a chemical in Polish... And to choose options for payment, shipment, etc in Polish???

[surfnturf]

another problem: No direct shipment to Germany.
Has anyone tried shipping services that forward the package to Germany?

BTW: You can change the Language to english and search for the chemical. But with a bit of guesswork you can guess the meaning.

[landstrykere]

i had bad experiences in the past ordering Phenidone from syntheticaeu.com, also a polish company. It definetly was not fresh phenidone (idk if it was any kind of Phenidone, i couldn't perform any analysis on it) and neither was soluble in propyleneglycol nor developing added to a known working formula.
Have you tried the raw chemicals in an active developer? Hence i have not found any information on this topic (and no mentioning of AKTYN on any other site) I'd be happy to get some feedback before I order some from AKTYN.


coincidence, as I was to write just about that. I am OP of this thread.

so I have used this in water solution mixes with hydroquinone, natrium sulfit, kalium carbonat and it dissolved. I got a working developer, but I have now to mix same formulas without this phenidon and compare. Because:

I wanted to make a dissolution stock in propyleneglycol. I keep glycol warm in a water bath, around ~ 60℃, and by crushing the phenidon, then agitation, I got what looks like a solution, ratio here 1:100:

https://i.postimg.cc/tXRxK4s0/IMG-1896-800.jpg

I tested a piece of KODAK 2556 with POTA and nothing.

I decided to increase the ratio 2:100, and no longer possible to dissolve by hand, so I just used the magnetic agitator. It didn't dissolve rather it turns into an emulsion (or suspension? ):

https://i.postimg.cc/t9N6vxCt/IMG-1903-800.jpg

when left, after couple days, it precipitates slowly:

https://i.postimg.cc/nxPDWZZ5/IMG-1978-800.jpg

in a water bath 60℃ it dissolves:

https://i.postimg.cc/DF4XkDwz/IMG-1979-800.jpg

when it cooled down to ~30℃ I made POTA (twice stronger this time). Took two shots in 5x7 of KODAK 2556. One developed in D23, image formed quickly. The other I left ~30mn in POTA (after what anyway if it is active phenidon, it has degraded and no longer works) but nothing, film emulsion seemed unchangedd. Just to be sure there is no very faint effect I plunged in fixer. The plastic base comes out cristal clear. Left on the light table:

https://i.postimg.cc/byWSS038/p-lysbord.jpg


so there is a problem for sure

[surfnturf]

thank you @landstrykere.
It appears to me that you got the same "Phenidone" as i did. I did some extensive testing also having the same trouble.
254864
As you can see, even after reheating the solution and letting it cool down, i got crystsalisation. It should've been a 2% Solution. I also made a 1% Solution.
Tested against working developer (Rodinal) and FX 55 with Penidone from Suvatlar (ordered 40gr, i'd order more from him because he offers best possible quality9
).
Snip 3 is the "Phenidone" from Poland - again added to FX 55 (4x the regular amount) and a negative control - all before fixation:
254865
Unfortunately I neither own equiptment nor know anybody who could've done HPLC/GC/MS/IR analysis on this stuff.
I kind of wanna know what it is,...

What concerned me the most was how "sticky" it is - compared to the "real" stuff.
Also solubility in organic solvents was the first thing that made me "unhappy" - also the rather good solubility in water.

I try to avoid hydroquinone because i like the idea of having less toxic chemicals (here non toxic) like vitamin c or sodium ascorbate in solution with minimal amounts of phenidone - very economical.

[landstrykere]

No direct shipment to Germany.
Has anyone tried shipping services that forward the package to Germany?


I tested providing an address in Germany and indeed: "Sprzedający nie wysyła do Twojego kraju. Zmień adres lub wybierz inną metodę dostawy." :confused:

I have used Allegro for a while before they had set the current online streamlined all EU countries payment-shipment system. Was obligated to use a remailer. A Czech company using in Poland, a store in Sieniawka, a town by the three borders Poland-Germany-Czechia. It is just by Zittau.
They have different sites, in czech it's https://www.znemecka.eu/ and in english it's https://www.europemailbox.com/mailbox-in-poland
You are attributed an address with a number extension, your customer ID. Allegro will not take it in numeral , you use the figures names (in whatever: polish german english czech)

[landstrykere]

It appears to me that you got the same "Phenidone" as i did. .../....
As you can see, even after reheating the solution and letting it cool down, i got crystsalisation.

yes, exactly what I have. I was puzzled because I am not aware of any other uses of phenidone than black white developer and the listing mentions "FENIDON FOTOGRAFICZNY" and "Data ważności produktu: minimum 1,5 roku od daty zakupu" (ie. it is fresh or so).

I guess I will buy it from Suvatlar too or Disactis (https://www.disactis-photochimie.fr/phenidone-a-25gr-c2x38507497 ) or wait longer maybe and try this listing for phenidone B, seller in Ukraine, so hope it's not the same stuff than AKTYN. I bought metol from them, asked what factory they use and got no answer: https://www.ebay.com/itm/204538525619

or just register a one-man company and buy directly all chemicals from Sigma-Aldrich..

[surfnturf]

To summarise:
We can assume that both, synthetikaeu.com and AKTYN, sell the same substance labled as “Phenidone” which it is apparently not.

1) The substance doesn’t inherit the physicochemical characteristics of Phenidone:

a. Not being readily soluble in any nonpolar organic solvents and not staying in solution even at 1%

b. Not taking part in any reaction that is typical for Phenidone :


– Being a developer (which we can put to the test in its typical reaction, demonstrated in FX 55 and POTA).
– Being a COX/LOX inhibitor (what we could not demonstrate).

c. Handling “really sticky” – seems to be either wet or a completely different substance
2) The substance appearance: Seems greyish/tan

Another aspect: Phenidone, even hydrolysed forms or oxidised, shouldn’t change its properties completely – the solubility is the simplest but I think the most obvious characteristic that is completely wrong.

Even it is any other form of Phenidone (e.g. HMMP), it should’ve performed in POTA as in FX 55.

Unknowns: Substance (missing HPLC/IR/GC/MS/FES etc).

I’d be interesting if the other substances from this sources (Hydroquinone and Pyrogallol) perform as badly as the Penidone hence being really cheap (from the first look) but expensive now (hence being not anything usable).

Buying directly from Sigma-Aldrich could be an option, but IMHO Suvatlar does offer better prices.

[landstrykere]

I’d be interesting if the other substances from this sources (Hydroquinone and Pyrogallol) perform as badly as the Penidone hence being really cheap (from the first look) but expensive now (hence being not anything usable).

the other reagents I buy from AKTYN work as expected. And I appreciate they sell hydroquinone (still) to private persons. Because the damn EU Commission has put it on banned list, sale to companies only, and resellers for specific users like us are in grey area.
Only issue I have is with this "phenidon". The point is that its CAS is correct. I will have to ask them details, kurwa :)

Cheaper price doesn't surprise me, many industrial productions are still cheaper in Poland as well as Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria. It could also come from Ukraine, and before 2022 from Russia, or be China import.
Another seller of some photographic chemicals I buy from is Manis in Athens:
https://manischemicals.com/en/30-raw-material-for-photography


Buying directly from Sigma-Aldrich could be an option, but IMHO Suvatlar does offer better prices.

i went on Sigma-Aldrich site to check, indeed more expensive than Suvatlar or Disactis

[surfnturf]

It is not only us who has had problems with their "Phenidone": Polish forum - I bet also the same source
https://www.korex.net.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16639&sid=32101c3553a8e697eb64a49164b864f4&sid=32101c3553a8e697eb64a49164b864f4&start=15
https://www-korex-net-pl.translate.goog/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16639&sid=32101c3553a8e697eb64a49164b864f4&sid=32101c3553a8e697eb64a49164b864f4&start=15&_x_tr_sl=pl&_x_tr_tl=de&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=sc.

[landstrykere]

It is not only us who has had problems with their "Phenidone": Polish forum - I bet also the same source
https://www.korex.net.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16639&sid=32101c3553a8e697eb64a49164b864f4&sid=32101c3553a8e697eb64a49164b864f4&start=15
https://www-korex-net-pl.translate.goog/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16639&sid=32101c3553a8e697eb64a49164b864f4&sid=32101c3553a8e697eb64a49164b864f4&start=15&_x_tr_sl=pl&_x_tr_tl=de&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=sc.

thank you. Interesting. Yes exactly same issue, as described (https://www.korex.net.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?p=170708#p170708) by commentator Michalak2.
I have registered on that forum with the idea to ask where he bought the working phenidone after that. Have to wait for account to be validated.

There is another seller on Allegro, in similar price, goes with account name synthetika_shop: https://allegro.pl/oferta/fenidon-wywolywacz-1-fenylo-3-pirazolidynon-500g-15075504859
This is a business in Łodz, and it is the "synthetikaeu" you bought from: https://synthetikaeu.com/

[surfnturf]

another addition to the book of "bought phenidone form poland":
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/phenidone-how-can-you-tell-if-it-has-lost-its-potency.207459/

[MartinP]

Looks like they have good prices. But to search for a chemical in Polish... And to choose options for payment, shipment, etc in Polish???

Do a website search for the CAS number. You can look that detail up in any number of places, but the shortcuts I saved to do exactly that are on my other PC, oops.

Edit: As mentioned a few posts after the one I replied too, my apologies -- especially as it was the 'right' CAS anyway, but apparently the wrong product.