5 X 7 Toyo ?????? [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Don Cameron

2-Jun-2006, 17:30

Hi All

I have been photographing for more years than I would ike to admit (30+), and I own a lot of Toyo cameras. (2) monorails (1) 45A field and (2) 8 X 10's, a G monorail, and a M field. Now for my question: I have never seen any 5 X7 toyo's of any type
Never seen a 5 X 7 back for the original 5X 7 /4 X 5 field. No monorails: none at all.

So I'm asking if anyone has ever owned or seen this mythological beast???

Not that I want one, but just to satisfy an old mans curiosity.

Thanks

Don Cameron

www.doncameron.com

Don Cameron

2-Jun-2006, 17:36

[QUOTE=Don Cameron]Hi All

I have been photographing for more years than I would ike to admit (30+), and I own a lot of Toyo cameras. (2) monorails (1) 45A field and (2) 8 X 10's, a G monorail, and a M field. Now for my question: I have never seen any 5 X7 toyo's of any type
Never seen a 5 X 7 back for the original 5X 7 /4 X 5 field. No monorails: none at all.

So I'm asking if anyone has ever owned or seen this mythological beast???

Not that I want one, but just to satisfy an old mans curiosity.

Thanks

Don Cameron

www.doncameron.com

Life beats you down and kiills yor soul. Art reminds you that you still have one.]

paulr

2-Jun-2006, 17:37

i have the old 4x5/5x7 field camera, and have never seen a 5x7 back for it.

the only references to it that i ever see are from people saying they're looking for one. so yeah, mythological beast sounds about right.

Oren Grad

2-Jun-2006, 21:07

Well, you can rent a 57G here (http://www.yubi-rental.co.jp/price/large/toyo.html).

And that's the only evidence I've been able to find of someone actually owning one today, if you'll count a rental house as "someone". Pretty amazing...

raucousimages

3-Jun-2006, 08:42

I saw one listed on ebay a couple of years ago. It was a grey monorail that looked old. I did not see the Toyo name anywhere in the photos so I cant verify this info. I would love to find a 5x7 Toyo in good shape. I have seven toyo's, two 8x10 and five 4x5. I shoot the 810M with a 5x7 adaptor, I just wish I could cut the weight.

QT Luong

3-Jun-2006, 18:20

I used a Toyo metal field in 5x7 for a couple of weeks. It was a wonderfully simple camera, but I found the movements limiting at that time, and there were light leaks.

Andre Noble

3-Jun-2006, 18:43

Someone recently provided this link to "Map Camera" in Japan for an actual new Toyo G 5x7 monorail for sale for appx 2,800 US.

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/mapcamera/2222080001328/

Up until a few days ago the link showed the actual product. It doesn't show now. I'd actually like to get one of these one day.

Has any international shoppers had any experience with Map Camera?

Oren Grad

3-Jun-2006, 19:12

tim atherton

3-Jun-2006, 19:20

Oren Grad

3-Jun-2006, 19:39

you can find all sorts of totyo stuff here, but you have to hunt around (a lot of the lings show in english at the bottom of the browser) - but I don't think I've come across the 5x7 stuff - could be there though

http://www.toyoview.co.jp/maincame.htm

The 5x7 stuff is nowhere to be found on the Sakai/Toyo Japanese site - they don't even show the bellows, rear standard or back as separate items any more. On the other hand, MAC in the US still lists the pieces as format conversion accessories:

http://www.toyoview.com/Products/Accessories/45C&Gac.html

And B&H lists these pieces as available by special order. It would be an expensive way to assemble a camera, though.

Ben Calwell

4-Jun-2006, 13:07

Don,
A few years back, Midwest Photo had a Toyo 5x7 monorail. My memory may be faulty, but I think the camera was kind of a cream color.

Capocheny

4-Jun-2006, 14:19

Someone recently provided this link to "Map Camera" in Japan for an actual new Toyo G 5x7 monorail for sale for appx 2,800 US.

Wow! That's a lot of scratch! :>|

:) Out of curiosity... is there something that makes these cameras THAT desirable? Surely, it's not based on a "collector's value," is it?

And, here, I thought the price for a new 5x7/4x5 Dorff was high! :)

Cheers

Oren Grad

4-Jun-2006, 14:51

Wow! That's a lot of scratch! :>|

:) Out of curiosity... is there something that makes these cameras THAT desirable? Surely, it's not based on a "collector's value," is it?

And, here, I thought the price for a new 5x7/4x5 Dorff was high! :)

Cheers

Have you priced a new 5x7 Linhof or ARCA-Swiss monorail lately? The Toyo is, relatively speaking, a bargain at that price.

Gary Smith

4-Jun-2006, 14:53

I have seen exactly two of them in the last year. One was at Map Camera, and the other was at another used camera store in Tokyo, it was either Shinbashi Camera or Ohba Camera, can't remember which one. If I remember correctly even used they were not cheap, at least 1500USD. Next time I go back to Tokyo, I will take a look.

Gary

Oren Grad

4-Jun-2006, 15:13

I have seen exactly two of them in the last year. One was at Map Camera, and the other was at another used camera store in Tokyo, it was either Shinbashi Camera or Ohba Camera, can't remember which one.

There's nothing currently in either the web or print (6/06 Nippon Camera) listings of either Map or Ohba.

Gary Smith

4-Jun-2006, 15:21

There's nothing currently in either the web or print (6/06 Nippon Camera) listings of either Map or Ohba.

That does not surprise me in the least. Both of those stores(most used stores here in fact), dont list everything on the webpages, nor are thier updates very regular. They usually have alot more more things in stock that are never listed. I am heading to Tokyo in a couple of weeks anyway, I will look around and see what I can find.

Gary

Capocheny

4-Jun-2006, 15:44

Have you priced a new 5x7 Linhof or ARCA-Swiss monorail lately? The Toyo is, relatively speaking, a bargain at that price.

Hi Oren,

Have to admit... no, I've not. But, from working at camera stores back 20 years ago (:)) I've always known Linhof and Arca Swiss to be very expensive. But, I've not followed their prices of late.

So, it seems I'm just a wee bit out of step with the pricing these days. :)

Cheers

Michael Graves

4-Jun-2006, 16:25

I own a 5x7 monorail. It's a great camera. The field camera was originally designed by Toyo to accept a 5x7 back; hence the size of the rear standard. Before I bought my monorail, I called Toyo's service department and asked if it was possible to get the back for the field camera. Now I don't know how accurate this is; but the gentleman I had on the phone informed me that before any of the 5x7 backs actually went into production, somebody upstairs decided the larger back wouldn't be profitable and they never produced it. Therefore, as a field camera, if what he told me is accurate, the 5x7 is truly a mythological beast. The 57G, on the other hand, is what I own and there is nothing mythological about it. The 20" monorail is a bit of PITA, though, since all the monorail carrying cases are designed around an 18" or shorter rail.

The 57G takes the same lensboards as all of the other Toyo monorails and the 810M (which I also own). I have a 4x5 back for the 57G, but haven't put it to use, since I haven't shot any 4x5.

Oren Grad

4-Jun-2006, 17:23

The 57G, on the other hand, is what I own and there is nothing mythological about it.

A living, breathing 57G owner! This probably calls for some kind of special prize...

Michael Graves

4-Jun-2006, 20:07

A prize? How about one of those 420 Apos they were discussing in another thread? One in a Copal #3 would be nice.

Jaroslaw

5-Jun-2006, 03:46

As some respondents to this thread may recall, I’ve been trying to hunt down a 57GII for some time now, but to no avail. I can only kick myself for failing to secure what could have been the last brand new 57GII on planet Earth (at Tokyo’s Map Camera), complements of taking too long with a confirmatory check on the required importation paperwork.

I’ve since gotten in touch with other Japanese retailers listing this 5x7 monorail and very quickly found out that in reality it is available neither new or used. Map Camera and Mediajoy even contacted Toyo and a few other local retailers (not sure if some of the other names mentioned by Gary were among them), and confirmed that not a single such item seems to be lying around in a Japanese storefront or warehouse, including Toyo’s. It would appear that only Gary has the power to disprove this thesis, as only divine intervention can cause a Toyo 5x7 monorail to appear outside of Japan. So far the divine has refrained from intervention.

Why do I find Toyo’s 5x7 monorail so desirable? My first LF camera was a used Toyo 45G, which was great for everything other than scaling mountains. I foolishly got rid of it and got a half-as-heavy 45AII field camera, thinking I could get away with it for architecture. I assumed that I would occasionally need to tilt the bed to get extra rise but I did not realize that I would nearly always be running out of rise in an urban setting and that the lack of precision and lack of axis tilts would be driving me nuts as well.

In the meantime, I also went through the usual yearnings for something larger, flirting with the idea of a sturdy 8x10, driven mainly by an appreciation of contact prints. I ultimately concluded that I should smack myself in the face a couple of times and not yield to gear hypertrophy. Prudence dictated seeking out a 5x7 monorail, especially after rejecting the idea of switching to a metal Canham field because of its lack of geared rise and numerous reports of its relative flimsiness.

Being in the market for a monorail, wishing to dabble in contact prints, and already owning a Toyo 4x5 field implied that complementing it with a Toyo 5x7 monorail (only 300g heavier than a 45G) would make the best of both worlds – or so I suspect – by creating an opportunity for using the latter as a 4x5 architectural machine and at once experimenting with something a notch larger without needing to buy new lenses, a new tripod, and a new backpack. An 8x10 would have created too much upheaval, also in terms of boosting the nuisance factor to potentially unacceptable levels. And if in, say, 10 years I feel that my fling with contact prints is not merely a fling and that I’ve bettered my craft sufficiently to deserve something even larger than 5x7, might as well consider going for an all-out ULF revolution.

So much for the gratuitous confession. I first need to find a damn 57G or GII to see if my cunning plan works…

Regards,
Jaroslaw

Ralph Barker

5-Jun-2006, 06:42

Uh-oh. I can see it now. a 10x14 or 15x21 FrankenToyo. ;)

Gary Smith

5-Jun-2006, 06:54

A

I’ve since gotten in touch with other Japanese retailers listing this 5x7 monorail and very quickly found out that in reality it is available neither new or used. Map Camera and Mediajoy even contacted Toyo and a few other local retailers (not sure if some of the other names mentioned by Gary were among them), and confirmed that not a single such item seems to be lying around in a Japanese storefront or warehouse, including Toyo’s. It would appear that only Gary has the power to disprove this thesis, as only divine intervention can cause a Toyo 5x7 monorail to appear outside of Japan. So far the divine has refrained from intervention.

I am certainly not divine , but I can look around next time I get down there. If I do manage to find something I will let you know! It will be a couple of weeks or so before I get down there, but I will see what I can find.

Gary

Jaroslaw

5-Jun-2006, 07:31

Thanks in advance for you help, Gary.

Divine intervention (or e-bay) is indeed my last refuge for all markets other than Japan, as I seem to have exhausted all possibilities elsewhere. If your generous offer of market reconnaissance will not produce a breakthrough, the divine will have one more jurisdiction to look after...

Cheers,
Jaroslaw

Oren Grad

5-Jun-2006, 07:32

Jaroslaw, if it's that important, why not try to order the conversion pieces from B&H? Unless you have a severe budget constraint - but then, if you were thinking seriously about buying the unit that Map had...

Or just call MAC and see if they can supply a complete camera, either off the shelf or by cobbling together the pieces for you. It's possible that their web page is outdated and they're out of stock as well, but the only way to know for sure is to go directly to the source.

Jaroslaw

5-Jun-2006, 08:14

Oren, thanks for the tip, but I've already tried all of the usual (and some unusual) sources in North America, UK, Continental Europe, and Asia. This includes Toyo itself.
The unanimous verdict is that the 57GII is out of production and not a single one is left sitting in a warehouse or is still floating around in distribution channels.

Gary's good works aside, plan B would admittedly amount to getting a used 45GII in excellent condition and buying a rear 5x7 standard, back, and w/a 5x7 bellows. However, I understand that there also seems to be a (temporary?) problem with the actual availability of Toyo 5x7 backs...

Speaking of conversions, wouldn't adding a 5x7 rear standard to a GX front make more sense? It seems to me a GX front would retain more rise potential than a GII front that 'starts' lower and needs to be slightly raised to center it vis-a-vis the 5x7 back. Any thoughts?

Jaroslaw

paulr

5-Jun-2006, 08:32

Now I don't know how accurate this is; but the gentleman I had on the phone informed me that before any of the 5x7 backs actually went into production, somebody upstairs decided the larger back wouldn't be profitable and they never produced it. Therefore, as a field camera, if what he told me is accurate, the 5x7 is truly a mythological beast.

that's a sad story, but it makes sense. everyone's always looking for these and coming up empty handed.

i wonder how hard a job it would be for a machinist to make one. you could probably sell a couple of dozen of them right away.

Ramiro Elena

7-Jan-2010, 02:33

Iga

7-Jan-2010, 03:17

Hi ! I know, it is not good coz it is mine, but take a look at ebay 250556786249 fot the pictures. I can't sell it for more than half of a year.. Crazy.. Two years ago I was offered 1200 Euro for the kit..
Best regards,
Igor.

Michael Graves

7-Jan-2010, 04:28

I own an older style gray-body Toyo 5x7. It's my favorite among my large format camers. It is tough and durable, most of the standard Toyo parts fit on it and it is nearly as lightweight as the identical model Toyo 4x5 I have. They do pop up from time to time.

brianam

7-Jan-2010, 16:58

Like Michael's post above this one, I just bought one of the gray Toyo half-plate size field cameras. Same one that Q.T. describes in his 5x7 articles on this site.
It's on its way to me from Japan, don't have it in hand yet.

Sale included the 4x5, half-plate, whole plate expansion, and 5x7 backs. The 5x7 back is not original; it's darker metal, has a fresnel, and was machined to fit from (I presume) another Toyo camera.

I bought the camera for 5x7 usage, but I'm intrigued too by the whole plate back. It seems like it might be an awkward contraption, but, since it has its own bellows and can extend pretty far behind the camera, I think it may solve the limited bellows draw issue.. at least when shooting WP film. And the seller is sending me two Toyo whole plate holders. ..saves me from buying the Chamonix versions; probably to find they would not work!

JosephBurke

7-Jan-2010, 17:05

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250556786249&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123#ht_524wt_1167

Brian Stein

7-Jan-2010, 18:45

Well who knew Im a member of an exclusive club! I bought a 57G last year off the 'bay in good shape; as stated takes all the toyo 45 stuff. Very happy with it.

Sal Santamaura

7-Jan-2010, 18:52

...And the seller is sending me two Toyo whole plate holders...I'd be most appreciative if, when your shipment arrives, you would post some pictures and measurements of those Toyo holders. Thanks in advance!

Toyon

7-Jan-2010, 18:57

Toyo made a very appealing full plate field camera 6"x8". It was similar to the early 45A models. They also made a 5"x7" back for it.

Brian Stein

7-Jan-2010, 20:53

Please allow me to refloat this thread for advice. I am being offered a Toyo View 57G with a Schneider Symmar 5,6 / 180mm and a couple film holders for $720.

I've gotten the bug for 5x7 after reading some much praise in this forum. I already own a Toyo Field 45A and a couple lenses so, is it a good price?
What do you guys reffer to when speaking of hard to find backs?

Thanks! (sorry if this shouldn't go here, just don't want to start a new topic)

After my discovery of my relative uniqueness in ownership, back to the OP:

I think this is a decent price ***subject to all the usual assumptions when buying used***. I paid ~500 for my 57G, holders for 57 are anywhere from 25-100 each (used..new) and a 180 symmar will fetch anything from 50-200+ judging by ebay. Given the *relative* scarcity of 57 cameras compared with 45 or 810 I think this is a good deal if in good shape

Mike1234

8-Jan-2010, 04:25

The only 57G piece I've seen is the folding focus shade that came in a package deal with a completely different camera. I still have it... just haven't gotten around to selling it yet.

tgtaylor

30-Jan-2023, 14:49

Well I bought one (the GII) from Japan a few months ago when the yen was nearing its bottom:

235106

The bellows is new and it will accommodate my 480mm Apo Ronar which gives a FOV a tad stronger than the 760mm Apo Nikkor on the 810. I've been thinking about getting the long bellows for it which would permit using the 610 and 760 lenses. I also picked-up the 5x7 to 4x5 reducing back for a color film option. I've been looking for this camera on and off for several years and actually was outbidded for one on ebay by a member here.

Michael Graves

31-Jan-2023, 13:34

I own a Toyo 57M. That's the old gray one. I don't find the movements limiting at all and I rather like the geared rise and fall. It's a bit heavy, but very sturdy.

tgtaylor

1-Feb-2023, 11:18

57M? Is that the 5x7 Deluxe model? Just before I bought the GII I was looking for a Toyo 5x7 rear standard so that I could covert my Robos to 5x7. I found one online at National Camera Exchange but after taking a hard look determined it was for the Deluxe and didn't buy it because I thought that it might not work with the Robos. Good thing too because it was priced at 4/$500 and for that I ended up getting the whole GII camera with a new bellows. The only thing that it didn't have was the folding focusing hood which came standard with the camera. I'm on the lookout for one but purchased an acrylic GG protector for now. Finally, I don't think the 720mm long bellows will work with the 760 Apo Nikkor. 720mm is the length of the standard bellows on the 810 and I have to use the 1200mm long bellows to use that lens on the MII or G. Probably will need to go to an 800mm bellows for that to work.

https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/217032-which-toyo-view-deluxe-camera-do-i-have/

Joseph Kashi

3-Feb-2023, 18:55

B.S. Kumar in Japan was able to find a Toyo 57D and later a Toyo 57G at fair prices for me. That might be a good place to start looking for a Toyo 5x7.