Print Washer: inside dividers?

[Dan Jolicoeur]

Hello everyone! I just bought a polyethylene batch tank to make a print washer with. My question to those of you who use a Versalab or similar type washer is about the print dividers. Are they smooth acrylic or do they have a dimpled type finish?

I ask this because I am wondering if a smooth acrylic will make the wet prints stick to them? Am I better off using a rough finish acrylic or polystyrene, like a fluorescent light diffuser, so that the print will come out easier and not stick to the sides.

Is this even a concern? I plan on Versalab/Cascade design combination.I am not totally sure on my design yet.

I would appreciate the input as far as prints sticking to Smooth Plexiglas or acrylic!
Dan

If anyone is interested you can purchase the tank that is like the one that Versalab uses from;
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/variant.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=20721&product%5Fid=424&variant%5Fid=6304#

[Louie Powell]

I have used a Zone VI print washer in workshops. The dividers are smooth acryllic. Yes, there is a tendency for prints to adhere to the dividers, but I never found that the "stickiness" was a problem in removing prints from the washer

[Dan Schmidt]

The are not smooth like plexi. I think they have a more textured finish, but i can check it later. One nice feature is that they are quite thin and flexible so that you can you can get your hand in to grab a print.

look at the plastic selections from McMaster-Carr

http://www.mcmaster.com/

type "plastic" and press find.

[domenico Foschi]

they are smooth.
They won't stick because the paper is not flat but has slight curvature at the edges.

www.dfoschiksite.com


Out of context.

How do you post a new thread?

[Brian Ellis]

I used a Zone VI Studios washer for years. It had clear dividers and the prints never stuck to the dividers, the moving water always seemed to keep them off the dividers. I also used that washer for 8x10 film and the same thing, i.e. no sticking.

[Dan Jolicoeur]

Thanks, I think I will go with the textured acrylic.
domenico, to post a new thread back up to the main index you want to post it under and at the top of the listed threads there is a button that says New thread.
Dan

[Graham Patterson]

The dividers in my Versalab are polystyrene. You can find smaller sheets in hobby shops for model constructon. The sheets are connected by plastic rods and spacers. The dividers are flexible so you can slide your hand in to reach small prints.

20 thou (0.020 inch) acrylic ought to work. Even 10 thou might, but 30 thou would be a touch stiff, I think.

[domenico Foschi]

Dan,
I don't know how textured it is, but I would avoid it just to make sure not to damage the emulsion when inserting and pulling the paper, after all the emulsion when wet is more vulnerable.
Nothing may happen, but I would stay safe.

Thank you for the posting tutorial.

[Rob Vinnedge]

I have an 11X14 Cross-Jet Archival print washer from Alistair Inglis (often advertised in View Camera magazine). He uses the textured dividers (a texture I have never seen), which seem to be very effective in minimizing the risk of prints sticking. Alistair is a friendly and generous photographer in Vancouver B.C. who, I am sure, would be very happy to share his knowledge with you.

[paulr]

i find that prints often stick to smooth dividers, but it's not a problem. it doesn't seem to have much effect on wash times. i tend to unstick them if i'm walking by and notice, but it doesn't seem to be important.

prints don't get washed by the physical action of water flowing over them. they get washed by the chemical diffusion of thiosulfate ions from a more concentrated to a less concentrated solution. the flow of the water is just to guarantee an abundant supply of clean water to encourage this diffusion. This is why photographers with a lot of patience have gotten great wash results by soaking prints in trays of water and replacing the water every few minutes.

also, the most stubborn to remove thiosulfate ions aren't bound to the emulsion at all ... they're bound to the paper fibers. if anything, you'd want to make sure the back of the prints are always exposed to fresh water.

[Dan Jolicoeur]

This is why photographers with a lot of patience have gotten great wash results by soaking prints in trays of water and replacing the water every few minutes.

also, the most stubborn to remove thiosulfate ions aren't bound to the emulsion at all ... they're bound to the paper fibers. if anything, you'd want to make sure the back of the prints are always exposed to fresh water.

Paul I now wash my prints in trays as you describe, but would rather be doing something else then dumping/filling water in a tray of prints. Or you could say I am losing my patience?

As far as getting the water behind the prints; this was my concern with the "sticking". When I soak the prints in a tray I often separated the prints that stuck together, and would shuffle them from time to time with great results.

I know I may be a little anal here, but maybe it is time to try some experiments with dividers. Maybe some holes, or dividers within the dividers? Similar to fiberglass drying screens? hmmm?

Thanks for all your replies! Everyone has had some great input to what seems like a simple task? I am sure I am going overboard on this, but I can not see spending over $200 on something I can make myself; and maybe better?

Dan

[paulr]

Paul I now wash my prints in trays as you describe, but would rather be doing something else then dumping/filling water in a tray of prints. Or you could say I am losing my patience?

I'm not suggesting you abandon the print washer for tray washing ... just saying that for the same reasons that tray washing works, you don't have to worry about prints sticking to the dividers. As long as the prints are soaking, and as long as the water is being changed regularly, they'll get washed.

No matter what method you use, you'll have to determine washing time with a residual hypo test ... no one can predict this for you. It's too dependent on water chemistry and other variables.

[Dan Jolicoeur]

After pricing different plastics I have decided to go with the .100" acrylic from usplastics.com. They seem to be about half the price of mcmaster. The thinner 1/16th and less are way too expensive.

Anyhow for those of you who are interested I will post part numbers, prices, and prints, when I finish this project. It maybe a few weeks before I get around to it.

My goal is the cheapest most effective concept, which seems to be similar to the Versalab with a few minor changes.

There is no need to reinvent the wheel, but it would be nice to make the dividers less hydrophobic? Maybe a few holes in them to break the surface tension.
I'll keep you posted, but it looks like it will be around $100 in materials.

Thanks for all of your input.
Dan