I need help identifying the lens

[rustyap]

I accidentally received several old lenses. One of them is supposedly Antiplanet Steinhel. He's short. Very heavy. Lots of glass. There is barely enough air for the diaphragm. Waterhouse diaphragm. And it's not in the center. (I found this on the forum.)

But. I can't determine exactly what it is. Groupen? Portrait? Something else?

The lens is very long. It was difficult to measure. Its length is 580-590mm. Front lens diameter 43mm. Everything online is shorter. And much lighter. It turns out f13. I didn't find such parameters. And I had a question about Waterhouse's stop. I found the answer on the forum. Steinhel used French meanings. Is this correct for everyone?

Can you help me determine what kind of lens this is?

No. 8xxx If necessary. And the front is a little different from the pictures online. In the pictures the lens hood is straight. Mine expands with a radius.

Sorry for writing a lot.

[djdister]

First hit from a Google search: https://apenasimagens.com/en/gruppen-antiplanet-steinheil-2/

[mhayashi]

Show us the pictures of the lenses.
Tell me the exact serial number of the Steinheil so I can look up your sample.

[rustyap]

251660251661251662

photo 3. Serial number 8436.

If I may allow one more question. Can the housing be unscrewed along the line? (photo 1 blue line) I think so, but I'm not sure. That's why I'm afraid to use force.

[mhayashi]

Your sample no.8436 is Aplanat B 19”’ linien, 43mm in lens opening diameter, made in 12.3.1877.
I have to look up what B means further.
What do you mean by 580-590mm, FL?
Let us know the total height of your lens too.

[rustyap]

43mm in lens opening diameter
Yes.
And.
Height with thread 57mm
Case diameter 53mm
Maximum diameter 74mm


What do you mean by 580-590mm, FL?
Yes. The camera is not long enough to accommodate the lens. Looks like I was wrong. (went off to measure)

Aplanat is unexpected. It is very different from the aplanats that I saw and from the Bush that I have. I don't argue, but I'm very surprised.

[Vaidotas]

251663

Here is an illustration according Steinheil Gruppen Antiplanet and previous more symmetrical lens.
Note that Steinheil was not only manufacturer of Gruppen Antiplanet.
Fritsch Prokesch from Vienna was making them too with no patent references on the lens barrel which differs from Steinheil barrel style and fashions much better built quality.

[rustyap]

The lenses are most similar to this scheme. (Link at the top of the page). Lenses 4-2. I can see the lenses inside. Very small distance between halves. The built-in diaphragm greatly reduces the clearance.
251664

[rustyap]

I measured the focal length again. Again it turns out to be 580mm.

[rustyap]

I measured the front and rear lens blocks. They are the same thickness. approximately 20mm.

[mhayashi]

Antiplanets are unsymmetrical in Steinheil design.
There are two types, portrait antiplanet 4 elements in 3 groups and gruppen antiplanet 4 elements in 2 groups.

Your sample would be as follows.

Handbuch der practischen Photographie
By Ludwig Gustav Kleffel · 1880
https://www.google.co.jp/books/edition/Handbuch_der_practischen_Photographie/AFTAfBon_FkC?hl=en

I need further research.
There were Aplanat, Aplanat A, and Aplanat B at the same time.
Aplanat B first appeared in 1870, A in 1874.
In 1882, WW-Aplanat B showed up first in exchange for Aplanat B.
This is Series VI. I confirmed the diameters of both menbers and mostly match.
So probably Aplanat B is the label before Weitwinkel aplanate fur Reproduction, Series VI.


There was also WW-Aplanat, Series V too at the same time.

So your sample would be Series VI No.26 FL 601mm, 61cm image circle when stopped down.
Make sure you measure the FL in the middle of the barrel or at whs hole, focusing on very far object for approximation. Or to be more precise, focus on moon and mark on the rail and do the same for 1:1 object on GG and measure the distance between them.
251665

Aplanat A ended in 1879 and seemed to be made in only very small numbers, with the opening lens diameter 33”’ linien, about 74.6mm. No further generation change seemed to occur.

[rustyap]

That's fantastic! I didn't expect such detailed information. Thank you very much!



Make sure you measure the FL


I assure you that I can measure focal length on LF cameras. Fix the camera on a tripod. Fix the lens in the window mount. Focus infinity. Measure from ground glass to aperture. I don't have the moon, but I have a house 450 meters away.

[rustyap]

and do the same for 1:1 object on GG and measure the distance between them.

But this part is confusing for me. I can't do this.

[mhayashi]

use this for example.
https://www.salzgeber.at/disc/

Mark the rail point A on the focusing carrier on the rail at 1:1.
Do the same on the moon or approximate infinity subject, the rail point B.
The difference B-A is the approximate FL, without knowing the rear nodal point, which is unknown for most people given a lens.

[rustyap]

use this for example.
https://www.salzgeber.at/disc/

Mark the rail

I'm having trouble with this part. My cameras are short. 5x7.
But. I measured it in a different way. "thin lens formula:" It turns out 576mm.