Pinhole diameter and format size ??

[joho]

For pinhole camera?


Is there any ratio as to the size of the pin-hole for a format size
say 12x16 inch??

[jon.oman]

Have you tried a design calculator?

https://www.mrpinhole.com/calcpinh.php

[joho]

No, i am just now getting technical.
have experimented --with odd ideas and odd results.
that was years ago.
thanks...

[Dugan]

A focal length is required in order to determine the optimal pinhole size for a given format.

[xkaes]

The focal length of the pinhole is the same focal length of a lens. You need to think about what focal length you want for the format that will be used -- and that will give you the diameter of the pinhole for that film format and lens perspective.

[Greg]

I have found that the tables for the recommended diameters of pinholes to be a starting point. Personally have found smaller sizes to perform better. Possibly because of the thickness of the material that the pinhole is "drilled" into? I use the thinest brass sheets that I can acquire and always blacken the brass.

[Barry Kirsten]

Why not look at commercial pinhole cameras of the size you're interested in and use the sizes they use? Zero Image or Reality So Subtle etc. You can learn a lot from their websites, and they don't get things wrong. But the important thing is accuracy of pinhole - unless you want odd-ball effects. You can also experiment with sizes to some extent. I've always found this article interesting: https://www.alternativephotography.com/pinhole-design-what-lord-rayleigh-really-said/

[joho]

in the past 12 years I see some interest has grown in the realm of pinhole
photography. As to the years before say 2000 through 2010.
In 1997 just started to make my first 6x12cm. rollfilm cameras as a pinhole, and then fixed a lens on it.

[nitroplait]

The pinhole size relative to the thickness of the punched material, focal length and negative size really depends on artistic intent.

Renowned pinhole photographer Marianne Engberg claims to have used decades to find the right size suiting her vision, and she says she is often asked for details but consider it her trade secret. http://marianneengberg.dk

The calculators or the commercial makers sounds like a good place to begin for a starting point.

[Tin Can]

Buy 1970s Pinhole Books

I bought 10 for very little

https://www.abebooks.com/?&ref_=ps_ggl_50675655&cm_mmc=ggl-_-COM_US_Brand-_-naa-_-naa&gclid=CjwKCAjwjeuyBhBuEiwAJ3vuofakaInWmS7Pr5fSGoOOBmzkAtqrmuKHvBmV9YG8_g75G084dpOWqxoCmXAQAvD_BwE

[xkaes]

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/pinhole.htm

[Jim Jones]

Have you tried a design calculator?

https://www.mrpinhole.com/calcpinh.php

Mrpinhole is the most frequently recommended calculator for pinhole diameter calculation, but is relatively inflexible. https://www.pinhole.cz/en/pinholedesigner/ (https://www.pinhole.cz/en/pinholedesigner/) permits the photographer to use either of two suggested user's constant based on scientific logic, or the photographer's own user constant determined from the photographer's own artistic experience or scientific research. This extends the photographer's opportunities in a branch of photography that can produce unique images that were nearly impossible until today's digital manipulation. The internet is a rabbit hole of information on pinhole photography. I suggest starting at https://jongrepstad.com/pinhole-photography/. The late Eric Renner devoted decades to promoting pinhole photography through workshops, books, and an online presence. Now we have an overwhelming range of information compared to half a century ago when I fabricated my first pinhole camera. Unfortunately, the physics of pinhole photography seem incompatible with this digital world. Perhaps pinhole photography can yet somehow join the ranks of other photographic techniques in a renaissance of unique photography.

[ic-racer]

Between 0.5mm and 1mm for visible light. It is a balance between loss of resolution from diffraction and loss of resolution from uncontrolled light.

[joho]

xkaes for some reason ---- http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/pinhole.htm
I can not hook up from here in Greece??????

[xkaes]

Try another broswer or device.

[Tin Can]

I am sure many here know about

The Largest Pinhole Print

[jnantz]

For pinhole camera?


Is there any ratio as to the size of the pin-hole for a format size
say 12x16 inch??

hi joho

it took me a while to find the quote : " A general rule of thumb is multiply the focal distance by 3 to minimum acceptable coverage....150 mm therefore should cover nicely i.e. 6 inch lens should cover 18 inch circle..." when I went to William Christiansen, he sold me a complete set of apertures and I just had to pick the right one ... I never made the pinhole myself but got laser holes .. and while I didn't use a zone plate they made great images too .. he makes some great pinhole stuff .. if. you haven't been there. http://www.pinholeedun.com

[Tin Can]

https://www.mrpinhole.com/

[joho]

https://www.mrpinhole.com/

Jnantz, & Tin Can thanks for the link .---at the site Gallery, the ideas work excellent in the pinhole mechanics.

[xkaes]

As MrPinHole's diameter calculator shows, you choose the focal length you want to use, and the calculator gives you the diameter.

The film format is not used in the calculation, as I mentioned.

You can use the same size pin hole on any film size, but if you want the same perspective with each format, you'll need to increase the focal length of the pinhole (and as a result, the pinhole diameter) to produce the same picture. Think of pinhole focal lengths just as you think of lens focal lengths -- a 50mm on a 35mm camera is a 180mm on a 4x5. It's the same with pinholes.

[joho]

just a Q? It is a the pinhole distance from the film plane that makes the angle ?? the size of the pinhole also comes into factor ???

see att.250413

[Dan Fromm]

just a Q? It is a the pinhole distance from the film plane that makes the angle ??

yes

[/QUOTE]the size of the pinhole also comes into factor ???[/QUOTE]

no

[xkaes]

just a Q? It is a the pinhole distance from the film plane that makes the angle ?? the size of the pinhole also comes into factor ???


The size of the pinhole gives you the focal length. The size of the film gives you the picture angle for that focal length. Just as a 100mm lens will be a telephoto on 35mm film, it will be a wide-angle lens on 4x5 film. Similarly, a 0.422mm pinhole (100mm away from the film) will be be a telephoto on 35mm film, but it will be a wide-angle lens (100mm away from the film) on 4x5 film. Same pinhole size, same distance to the film, but different picture size, and so a different picture angle.

[Dan Fromm]

The size of the pinhole gives you the focal length.

No no no. Pinhole to film distance is the focal length.

[xkaes]

You better tell MrPinHole. His calculator asks for the focal length you want, and it tells you the diameter that the pinhole needs to be. Flip the coin over, and the size of the pinhole tells you the focal length (AKA, the distance from the pinhole to the film).

Six of one, half dozen of the other.

[Dan Fromm]

You better tell MrPinHole. His calculator asks for the focal length you want, and it tells you the diameter that the pinhole needs to be. Flip the coin over, and the size of the pinhole tells you the focal length (AKA, the distance from the pinhole to the film).

Six of one, half dozen of the other.

Wrong again. MrPinHole gives the focal length for which the pinhole's diameter is optimal. That's a recommendation for using the pinhole, doesn't change the fact that the pinhole's focal length is the pinhole-to-film distance, which is under the user's control.

[xkaes]

MrPinHole gives the focal length for which the pinhole's diameter is optimal.

Exactly. So if you know the pinhole diameter, you know the focal length (distance to the film).

If you know (or choose) one, you know (can compute) the other.

The size of the pinhole gives you the focal length OR the focal length gives you the size of the pinhole.

No need to confuse people. It's a simple algebraic formula. If you know X, you can comute Y. If, instead, you know Y, you can compute X.

For any given focal length there is an optimal pinhole size, and for any given pinhole size there is an optimal focal length.

I suppose that most people want to ask "What is the best pinhole size for the focal length I want to use?", but it can be asked "What is the focal length of a pinhole this size?".

Unfortunately, the OP was asking "What is the pinhole size for a film format?", and pinhole sizes are not determined that way. I stressed that a focal length should be chosen first -- but that depends on the film format.

[Jim Jones]

Pinhole photography can be simple, or it can become greatly more complex than the variety sometimes used to create an interest in photography in elementary school students. For an introduction to the subject, I recommend Jim Shull's 80 page book, Beginner's guide to Pinhole Photography. It covers the subject from fabricating a primitive pinhole camera to exposing the negative. The late Eric Renner's much more informative book, Pinhole Photography: Rediscovering a Historic Technique, covers pinhole history from long before photography to our time, and has much useful and inspirational information and examples for the practicing pinhole photographer. For those who prefer online sources of information, see https://jongrepstad.com/. It also contains useful information on constructing large format cameras.

[Oren Grad]

Exactly. So if you know the pinhole diameter, you know the focal length (distance to the film).

If you know (or choose) one, you know (can compute) the other.

The size of the pinhole gives you the focal length OR the focal length gives you the size of the pinhole.

No need to confuse people. It's a simple algebraic formula. If you know X, you can comute Y. If, instead, you know Y, you can compute X.

For any given focal length there is an optimal pinhole size, and for any given pinhole size there is an optimal focal length.

But there is no obligation for a user to adopt any particular pinhole formula or size that is recommended as optimal, and in practice pinhole photographers make many different choices about this. So no, the pinhole size does not determine the focal length - it is a completely independent variable. As Dan said, the focal length just *is* the pinhole-to-film distance. If the box is 50mm deep, the box is 50mm deep, and the size of the pinhole does not change that.

[Tracy Storer]

But there is no obligation for a user to adopt any particular pinhole formula or size that is recommended as optimal, and in practice pinhole photographers make many different choices about this. So no, the pinhole size does not determine the focal length - it is a completely independent variable. As Dan said, the focal length just *is* the pinhole-to-film distance. If the box is 50mm deep, the box is 50mm deep, and the size of the pinhole does not change that.

EXACTLY ! I used to do a lot of pinhole in the 1990's, and never felt obliged to use "optimal pinhole sizes" Rather, I felt that if I was doing pinhole, I wanted to introduce an element of "funk", ie: everything equally the same amount of unsharp. I shot portraits and nudes, so I optimized pinhole size for exposure times that would allow the models to hold still long enough, and not be blurry from too much breathing.(with models with good body awareness, I coached them to either breath to their chests or bellies, depending on the pose.)

[Oren Grad]

Nice example, Tracy. As you would choose a lens to suit the photographic task, so you can choose a pinhole as well.

[Tin Can]

and if you bought the 1970 Pinhole BOOKS

They show many pin holes that are not round

and found in nature

I even bought 2 books that was a paper PINHOL KIT inside the book

[xkaes]

Since it's National Donut Day, you can get pinholes at super prices -- but today only.

Anyone can make a personalized pinhole out of anything, including donuts, and set it at any distance from the film, and claim their personal focal lengths.

More power to you. Anyone can have personalized focal lengths -- and f-stops too.

I prefer to be in control of my work -- instead of let's say Krispy Kreme.

[Jim Jones]

When a photographer has exhausted all the published variations on pinhole techniques, it is time to ask, "what if . . . ". For example, images are occasionally published where a pinhole is centered in the end of a short cylinder to form a 360 degree panorama on the cylinder wall. Extending the cylinder can form an image distorted almost beyond recognition. In this example, film was wrapped around the interior of a potato chip canister, and the pinhole was centered in one end of the canister. Decentering the pinhole would provide additional possibilities. The image was much dimmer at the far end of the canister, so correct exposure near the pinhole had to be decreased by a factor of about 10 by sliding a sleeve up the outside of the canister during exposure. Image sharpness varies widely in the print due to several factors, including astigmatism introduced by the oblique angle of the image formed near the pinhole end of the canister and the image smeared linearly far from the pinhole. Unfortunately for some, the Mr. Pinhole site doesn't provide information on selecting pinhole diameters in this (and other) situations.

[xkaes]

Very interesting approach. I've got to assume that some photographers, somewhere, have tried similar approaches with "normal" lenses.

[Jim Jones]

Not likely. The pinhole's angle of view may have been near 120 degrees, and the depth of focus about 8 inches.

[Oren Grad]

When a photographer has exhausted all the published variations on pinhole techniques, it is time to ask, "what if . . . ". For example, images are occasionally published where a pinhole is centered in the end of a short cylinder to form a 360 degree panorama on the cylinder wall. Extending the cylinder can form an image distorted almost beyond recognition. In this example, film was wrapped around the interior of a potato chip canister, and the pinhole was centered in one end of the canister. Decentering the pinhole would provide additional possibilities. The image was much dimmer at the far end of the canister, so correct exposure near the pinhole had to be decreased by a factor of about 10 by sliding a sleeve up the outside of the canister during exposure. Image sharpness varies widely in the print due to several factors, including astigmatism introduced by the oblique angle of the image formed near the pinhole end of the canister and the image smeared linearly far from the pinhole. Unfortunately for some, the Mr. Pinhole site doesn't provide information on selecting pinhole diameters in this (and other) situations.

The Abelson Scope Works Omniscope comes to mind...

[xkaes]

Not likely. The pinhole's angle of view may have been near 120 degrees, and the depth of focus about 8 inches.

There are plenty of rectilinear lenses with angles of 120 degrees -- and then there are fisheyes up to 220 degrees.

[jnantz]

When a photographer has exhausted all the published variations on pinhole techniques, it is time to ask, "what if . . . ". For example, images are occasionally published where a pinhole is centered in the end of a short cylinder to form a 360 degree panorama on the cylinder wall. Extending the cylinder can form an image distorted almost beyond recognition. In this example, film was wrapped around the interior of a potato chip canister, and the pinhole was centered in one end of the canister. Decentering the pinhole would provide additional possibilities. The image was much dimmer at the far end of the canister, so correct exposure near the pinhole had to be decreased by a factor of about 10 by sliding a sleeve up the outside of the canister during exposure. Image sharpness varies widely in the print due to several factors, including astigmatism introduced by the oblique angle of the image formed near the pinhole end of the canister and the image smeared linearly far from the pinhole. Unfortunately for some, the Mr. Pinhole site doesn't provide information on selecting pinhole diameters in this (and other) situations.

I love linear, nonlinear optical non optical visual experiments. I hope you made a bunch of these !

[Tin Can]

I need to execute a 365 day pinhole cam

Slow process

Maybe we live that

long

[Jim Jones]

The Abelson Scope Works Omniscope comes to mind...

I believe the Abelson Omniscope used several lenses to create multiple images on one strip of film. That idea has been around for quite a few years.

[Chuck Pere]

When a photographer has exhausted all the published variations on pinhole techniques, it is time to ask, "what if . . . ". For example, images are occasionally published where a pinhole is centered in the end of a short cylinder to form a 360 degree panorama on the cylinder wall. Extending the cylinder can form an image distorted almost beyond recognition. In this example, film was wrapped around the interior of a potato chip canister, and the pinhole was centered in one end of the canister. Decentering the pinhole would provide additional possibilities. The image was much dimmer at the far end of the canister, so correct exposure near the pinhole had to be decreased by a factor of about 10 by sliding a sleeve up the outside of the canister during exposure. Image sharpness varies widely in the print due to several factors, including astigmatism introduced by the oblique angle of the image formed near the pinhole end of the canister and the image smeared linearly far from the pinhole. Unfortunately for some, the Mr. Pinhole site doesn't provide information on selecting pinhole diameters in this (and other) situations.

Is the exposure correction sleeve on the inside of the canister? Not sure I see how it works on the outside.

[Tin Can]

Pinhole photography can be simple, or it can become greatly more complex than the variety sometimes used to create an interest in photography in elementary school students. For an introduction to the subject, I recommend Jim Shull's 80 page book, Beginner's guide to Pinhole Photography. It covers the subject from fabricating a primitive pinhole camera to exposing the negative. The late Eric Renner's much more informative book, Pinhole
Got that book and more


Photography: Rediscovering a Historic Technique, covers pinhole history from long before photography to our time, and has much useful and inspirational information and examples for the practicing pinhole photographer. For those who prefer online sources of information, see https://jongrepstad.com/. It also contains useful information on constructing large format cameras.

[Oren Grad]

I believe the Abelson Omniscope used several lenses to create multiple images on one strip of film. That idea has been around for quite a few years.

That was the Hexomniscope. The Omniscope used an anamorphic projection.

[Jim Jones]

Oren, you are right. The Omniscope used one roll of film to record several anamorphic images while my photograph in post #34 used one sheet of film to produce one image on one sheet of film with the view extending far beyond that of the Omniscope.

[Jim Jones]

Is the exposure correction sleeve on the inside of the canister? Not sure I see how it works on the outside.
The sleeve was black on its inside to reduce reflection onto the pinhole. It is on the outside, and extends the length of the potato chip canister. After the exposure begins, sliding the sleeve upwards increasingly blocks light to the pinhole. As I recall, this took from a very few seconds to about a minute. The varying rate at which the sleeve is moved was calculated to provide near equal exposure throughout.

[Tin Can]

no rules

[Chuck Pere]

The sleeve was black on its inside to reduce reflection onto the pinhole. It is on the outside, and extends the length of the potato chip canister. After the exposure begins, sliding the sleeve upwards increasingly blocks light to the pinhole. As I recall, this took from a very few seconds to about a minute. The varying rate at which the sleeve is moved was calculated to provide near equal exposure throughout.

Thanks. I understand how it's done now.

[newt]

In the 1980s I bought a set of laser drilled mounted pinoles from MElles GRiot that I used on films from 35mm to 8x10. I found that for all sizes the 400µ pinhole gave the best image quality. However, as my experience did not generate a reasoned formula, I scanned these two pages from Bunnell and Sobieszek's 1974 reprint of B.E.Jones's 1911 Encyclopedia of Photography.

253507

253508

[joho]

Have been at work on this project since start of May 2024 in the form of a study of the pinhole , Made up to 120 different pinholes not one was the same or identical ????? No explanations!!!
well as Tin Can said "No Rules"
Came out with 3 that work good to excellent !!
at this moment I working on the camera. 5 months going to 6 ........
basically pinhole work started in 2000 with the 6x14 pansphinx camera_later to ve fitted with a lens.

[Tin Can]

Recently

B&H

and Harman discounted their very nice

4X5 Pinhole KIT

no assembly required

includes

film!

and exposure disc calculator

for ANY exposure!

i could not resist