Your Real Name (and Date of Birth reminder)

[Tom Westbrook]

The moderators have decided to add a new requirement that all users store their real name in their user profile (aka User CP). To that end, we've added a custom field. To find the new field, go to User Options (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/profile.php?do=editprofile). The Real Name field is the last question in the upper "Required" box near the top of the Options page.

The Real Name field is for administrative purposes only, and is only visible to Moderators of the LF Forum. As you might guess, it's so the site administrators know who you are, should you choose to use something less than your full, real name as your user ID.

While you are filling that in and if you haven't already done so, please also fill in a DOB that indicates you are 13 years old or older. This prevents problems with US federal law regarding storing young users personal information online. We're volunteers and would prefer not to spend any time visiting with the FBI if it can be avoided. So please fill that in.

Please fill in both by June 15, 2006. After that we will begin nagging you to do so.

Thank you for cooperating.

[hermit]

I certainly recognize the forum's right to require this. However, this was NOT a requirement when I made my original postings, so you are changing the rules AFTER THE FACT. Rather than insult the moderators by faking an identity, easy enough to do, I am requesting you close my account and strike all of my previous posts. I think this is only fair given that you have decided to change the rules 'after the fact'. Things get uglier on forums than they do in real life, face to face. This is pretty much a given. To avoid 'carryover' to 'real life situations', I simply choose to remain anonymous. If that means no longer being able to post, so be it. Thank You.

[Ernest Purdum]

I've forgotten my password. What should I do?

[Tom Westbrook]

Just try to log in and a link to reset it will show up on the next page. It sends a couple of emails, and the new password is numeric, so lust log in with the new pass-number and set it to anything you want.


I've forgotten my password. What should I do?

[Ron Marshall]

How do I change my date of birth?

[Tom Westbrook]

Ron, I set it back to null values, you should be able to set it yourself now.


How do I change my date of birth?

[Tom Westbrook]

The new policy is an alternative to requiring real names as your log in name (user name). It's not visible to anyone and will be treated as private info by the moderators so it won't be shared with other members. But if you still want your info removed, just send a request via the Contact Us form (link's at the bottom of the page).


I certainly recognize the forum's right to require this. However, this was NOT a requirement when I made my original postings, so you are changing the rules AFTER THE FACT. Rather than insult the moderators by faking an identity, easy enough to do, I am requesting you close my account and strike all of my previous posts. I think this is only fair given that you have decided to change the rules 'after the fact'. Things get uglier on forums than they do in real life, face to face. This is pretty much a given. To avoid 'carryover' to 'real life situations', I simply choose to remain anonymous. If that means no longer being able to post, so be it. Thank You.

[robc]

love the bit where it says:

"Please contact the Administrator if your date of birth has changed."

do you know something about time travel that we don't?

[Ole Tjugen]

... To avoid 'carryover' to 'real life situations', I simply choose to remain anonymous. ...
I've been myself for several years here, giving my real name all along. Not once have I experienced any kind of unpleasantness.

I have received the occasional email with questions within my areas of "competence", but far from a bothersome amount. Maybe ten in total, over - quite a few years?

It might help that I do my best to avoid being unpleasant to others on this forum (and all others).

[Kirk Gittings]

Hermit,

You should have the right to remain publically anonymous, though I personally find that kind of odd and a bit chicken s...

But, if you are writing things on this forum that negatively "carry over" to your other life and don't want to publically accept responsibility for your statements, I suggest that you rethink the nature of your posts.

[Larry H-L]

As one (along with 67,000 others) who just had their names, SS numbers, addresses and health records stolen from a web server, I would advise against putting your actual DOB on this or any other site.

I'd also like to know what type of security exists for protecting personal information on this site?

[Tom Westbrook]

I noticed that, too. It's canned text from the vBulletin people. I presume it was just a gentler way to say "if you lied and and want to change it", or "you didn't lie the first time and want to now, please contact us" ;)


love the bit where it says:

"Please contact the Administrator if your date of birth has changed."

do you know something about time travel that we don't?

We don't much care if members lie about their DOB--we just need each to say they are 13 or over, the only way we have of doing that is collecting a DOB. Whether it a true DOB or not is your call.

[David A. Goldfarb]

You should have the right to remain publically anonymous, though I personally find that kind of odd and a bit chicken s...

But, if you are writing things on this forum that negatively "carry over" to your other life and don't want to publically accept responsibility for your statements, I suggest that you rethink the nature of your posts.

I completely agree. I also agree with Ole's post above, as I've been using my real name on internet forums since 1992, and I haven't experienced any negative consequences.

[tim atherton]

Hermit,

You should have the right to remain publically anonymous, though I personally find that kind of odd and a bit chicken s...

But, if you are writing things on this forum that negatively "carry over" to your other life and don't want to publically accept responsibility for your statements, I suggest that you rethink the nature of your posts.

or rather - rethink the nature of your life?

[tim atherton]

I completely agree. I also agree with Ole's post above, as I've been using my real name on internet forums since 1992, and I haven't experienced any negative consequences.

I think it depends a lot on what kind of person you are - both online and in "real life"....

[Tom Westbrook]

I'd also like to know what type of security exists for protecting personal information on this site?

In general, I think security is quite good here. I tend to be more cautious than most, but I won't discuss security measures publicly for obvious reasons. If you need to know about vBulletin's security go to www.vbulletin.com and search the site for info on that. Also check in at www.mysql.com for info on database security. Both vendors take security seriously and we do stay on top of patches/fixes when they are released.

[Gordon Moat]

I think it depends a lot on what kind of person you are - both online and in "real life"....

Many of us know that the agenda of some internet posters is strictly the posting aspect. They get a chance to state things they might not be able to in public, without recourse. If some people conducted themselves in real life the way they did on internet forums, they would be getting their a$$ kicked on a daily basis.:D

Of course, it can make some people happy to vent and express anger, or rage about someone/something. Another aspect is that someone can express things that might concern their work, or their customers, without worry that such negative statements might affect their real life . . . maybe we could call that virtual bravery.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat

[Nitish Kanabar]

The moderators have decided to add a new requirement that all users store their real name in their user profile (aka User CP). To that end, we've added a custom field. To find the new field, go to User Options (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/profile.php?do=editprofile). The Real Name field is the last question in the upper "Required" box near the top of the Options page.

The Real Name field is for administrative purposes only, and is only visible to Moderators of the the LF Forum. As you might guess, it's so the site administrators know who you are, should you choose to use something less than your full, real name as your user ID.

While you are filling that in and if you haven't already done so, please also fill in a DOB that indicates you are 13 years old or older. This prevents problems with US federal law regarding storing young users personal information online. We're volunteers and would prefer not to spend any time visiting with the FBI if it can be avoided. So please fill that in.

Please fill in both by June 15, 2006. After that we will begin nagging you to do so.

Thank you for cooperating.


Tom,

Can you share what purpose will be served by the "Real Name" requirement? How do the administrators see this feature being put to use?

[Bob Gentile]

Tom,

You guys run a great forum here. You do what you must to comply (as best you can) with all the various laws, policies, server Ts & Cs, and members' cultural conventions. (Mustn't offend anyone.) You also do what you have to do to limit (as best you can) your own liability amidst our litigious society. And then you take great pains to explain the reasons behind your decisions. Finally, you have to deal with all the questions and unsolicited "feedback" (ahem) whenever a change is necessary.

You all have my empathy. Please keep up the good work!

[Ralph Barker]

Tom,

Can you share what purpose will be served by the "Real Name" requirement? How do the administrators see this feature being put to use?

I can't speak for the other admins, but if an issue comes up that requires a personal (and, confidential) e-mail, I like to know the name of the person with whom I'm communicating. I see it as a courtesy thing.

Like many others, I've used my real name consistently, and back as far as the Usenet groups back in the '80s. But, I don't try to second-guess those who prefer to use a "handle" on the forums, even though in some photography circles doing so would immediately make the person suspect.

[Tom Westbrook]

Nitish: Just for deterrent value. People sometimes act better if their name is attached to their activities in some fashion.

Bob: Thanks for the kudos. We don't mind some push-back on decisions--we can make stupid decisions just like anyone else, but the moderators think this is a reasonable thing to ask the members.

[Nitish Kanabar]

Thanks Ralph and Tom -

While I understand your reasons, I don't quite agree with them. There isn't anything that prevents one from entering a false "real name" and there isn't a way for you to verify this. I could call myself "Thomas Jefferson" in the forums and enter that as my "real name" and no one the wiser. Doing so totally defeats any deterrent purpose that you think will be served by asking members to fill up an additional field. At best, it gives a false sense of courtesy and security.

You guys do a great job running and maintaining this forum and this post does not in any way attempt to state otherwise. My point is that having members fill in an additional field called *real name* does not fulfill the stated purpose of said requirement.

[hermit]

Nitish: Just for deterrent value. People sometimes act better if their name is attached to their activities in some fashion.

How is it a deterrent if you have absolutely NO way of verifying the name? Mr. Gittings has called me "chicken s..." (very thinly veiled). Mr. Baker, a moderator, suggested that I could be considered "suspect" for using a handle. And there is more. So, giving a name doesn't seem to stop the name calling. Please show me in any of my posts where I have 'crossed the line'.

Yes, it would be easier to simply log in and put down Jane Doe, age 14, but that is not the point. Feel free to call me Hermit in any personal correspondence. I obviously don't care. If hat is the only name I give, why should I?

It is becoming quite clear that we need to establish a pecking order here based on name recognition. I think this is the REAL issue here. At this point I am not inclined to change my mind about just wiping my existence from the list. Looks like it would make lots of folks, moderators included, happy anyhow.

[Tom Westbrook]

I think we already know you aren't Thomas Jefferson, or you'd be in court defending yourself in a number of paternity lawsuits :)

Whether it's false or not, courtesy is courtesy. Beats the alternative.

[Ralph Barker]

FWIW, I took Kirk's comment as being aimed at the action, not the person, and thus within guidelines. And, my comment was aimed at no one in particular - just a general observation of how others see people who choose to use a handle, rather than their real name. For those of us who occasionally work with models as a result of Web contacts, being "real" on the 'Net is almost essential.

Certainly, there's no convenient way to verify what is entered in one's profile. We like to think, however, that people here will be honest - even if they choose to limit what is made public.

[Marko]

In general, I think security is quite good here.

Generally speaking, that's exactly what all those whose data has been stollen in the past thought. The problem with security is that one can have neither too much nor too little of it, depending on one's perspective.

Data theft is a very big concern these days, and it will only get bigger. Identity is the most valuable data one can have because one can neither change it nor replace it.


You should have the right to remain publically anonymous, though I personally find that kind of odd and a bit chicken s...

As far as people not wanting to use their real name publicly, I wouldn't be too quick to ridicule them. If you haven't had a negative experience (yet), consider yourself lucky, but also do consider that some of us have and it only takes one to make an epiphany. I have both been robbed electronically (through my bank) and had some unpleasant exchanges related to my last name, so I am not making this up.

I do, however, understand the reasons behind this requirement but I don't fully agree with the reasoning offered. Year of birth should basically be quite enough to verify the age requirement, you don't really need the full date, except when a member is less than 15 years old and could easily be programmed in as a special case.

Just my $0.02

Oh, and yes, this is my real name. Trust me on it... ;)

[hermit]

FWIW, I took Kirk's comment as being aimed at the action, not the person, and thus within guidelines. And, my comment was aimed at no one in particular - just a general observation of how others see people who choose to use a handle, rather than their real name. For those of us who occasionally work with models as a result of Web contacts, being "real" on the 'Net is almost essential.

Certainly, there's no convenient way to verify what is entered in one's profile. We like to think, however, that people here will be honest - even if they choose to limit what is made public.

OK. You can call my actions 'chicken s....' but I shouldn't take that personally? And doing it that way makes it "within guidelines"?

At this point I just want to know if my account is closed will my posts be wiped. I think that would be the only fair way to do it since I won't be around to defend any of them.

[Nitish Kanabar]

I think we already know you aren't Thomas Jefferson, or you'd be in court defending yourself in a number of paternity lawsuits :)

Whether it's false or not, courtesy is courtesy. Beats the alternative.

:) I think paternity suits are covered by statute of limitations.

But you don't know for sure that I am indeed "Nitish Kanabar", do you? Nor for that matter do I really know that you are "Tom Westbrook". We believe these handles to be real names because we don't see any reason why the other party would lie (atleast on this particular forum). At the same time we each provide only as much information about ourselves as we are comfortable with providing on this forum.

Isn't it courteous to respect a person's wish to remain anonymous, especially online? If that person follows the rules of the forum, then why does it matter if they fill in a field called "real-name" or not? Why force them to fill-in a fake name just so that they can participate on this forum?

[Ralph Barker]

. . . At this point I just want to know if my account is closed will my posts be wiped. . . .

If you send us an e-mail requesting that your account be deleted, we'll do our best to also delete any posts that we think are yours, if that is your wish. Obviously, we can't make any guarantees about posts from other potential hermits.

[Nitish Kanabar]

FWIW, I took Kirk's comment as being aimed at the action, not the person, and thus within guidelines. And, my comment was aimed at no one in particular - just a general observation of how others see people who choose to use a handle, rather than their real name. For those of us who occasionally work with models as a result of Web contacts, being "real" on the 'Net is almost essential.

Ralph, in fact most security experts will view giving out your personal information on the internet (unless you absolutely HAVE to as you stated for business reasons) as unadvisable. Using a net-moniker or handle does not automatically make someone suspect, atleast in my eyes.



Certainly, there's no convenient way to verify what is entered in one's profile. We like to think, however, that people here will be honest - even if they choose to limit what is made public.

Exactly! Most people here ARE honest and we should respect the fact that they choose NOT to lie on the real-name field. They choose to limit what is made available to the public, including the moderators. Why force them?

[Ralph Barker]

Nitish - please don't interpret what I've said as meaning that I think someone who chooses to use a moniker/handle is automatically suspect - even though he or she would be in some photography circles. Of course, a person who chooses to hide their identity by wearing a mask into the local bank might get a less-friendly reception. ;)

While the reasons for the policy is as Tom and I have stated, one side benefit is that it also gives us something to point at as evidence of "due diligence" in the operation of the forum.

We're just trying to stike a reasonable balance here between "free and easy," good community relations (based on our collective forum experience), and strict compliance with U.S. federal regulations.

[hermit]

We're just trying to stike a reasonable balance here between "free and easy," good community relations (based on our collective forum experience), and strict compliance with U.S. federal regulations.

If I arrange for space on a server in Japan would that make a difference? I do some work for a small ISP and I have never heard postings must be done with 'real names' or that the board operator was obligated to ensure this is the case. It would be an impossible burden. Can you point me to the regulation you are referring to?

[Peter Collins]

I didn't know I could change my date of birth. Let's see, with my birthday in May now gone for the year, 2006 could be the year to get a second set of birthday presents. M-m-m-m, I think I'll change my birthday to a nice day in September!

[Ralph Barker]

A Japan-based server probably wouldn't solve the problem for U.S.-based operators. Plus, I can't imagine anyone in Japan being willing to donate virtually unlimited trans-Pacific bandwidth. We're fortunate to have Brian Reid as our benefactor in that respect. If we were on a commercial server, we'd likely be looking at several thousand dollars per month in bandwidth alone.

COPPA (Children's Online Privacy Protection Act) is only part of the issue. Interpretation of the law, however, is the usual slippery slope of legalese versus local interpretation by prosecutors anxious to get re-elected. If one were to read the material available on the Federal Trade Commission site (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/coppa.htm), and then consider how a prosecutor could spin various circumstances to their benefit in the press, and what it would cost to defend oneself in court, one might be prompted to require a copy of the person's driver's license, a copy of their Social Security card, and a certified copy of their birth certificate, along with a signed blank check, all delivered in person. ;)

We think we're in a reasonably safe zone with respect to COPPA, so we're trying not to be overly paranoid about that. The thought of several hundred thousand in attorney's fees does send a little chill up my back, though.

[Ralph Barker]

I didn't know I could change my date of birth. Let's see, with my birthday in May now gone for the year, 2006 could be the year to get a second set of birthday presents. M-m-m-m, I think I'll change my birthday to a nice day in September!

Actually, Peter, I don't think you can edit your DOB once it has been entered. If you, uh, made a mistake, however, we can reset it to blank, allowing you to enter a new date.

[hermit]

If you send us an e-mail requesting that your account be deleted, we'll do our best to also delete any posts that we think are yours, if that is your wish. Obviously, we can't make any guarantees about posts from other potential hermits.

Well, I'm only worried about the posts attatched to my account. I know the folks over at APUG are able to do a 'wipe', you maybe could contact them for directions. I would assume vBulletin would provide support? This is commercial software.

[hermit]

A Japan-based server probably wouldn't solve the problem for U.S.-based operators. Plus, I can't imagine anyone in Japan being willing to donate virtually unlimited trans-Pacific bandwidth. We're fortunate to have Brian Reid as our benefactor in that respect. If we were on a commercial server, we'd likely be looking at several thousand dollars per month in bandwidth alone.

They pay a connection fee over there. We still, for the moment, have net neutrality so there is no extra trans-Pacific bandwdith fee. Of course the list does have members in other countries and other continents any how. No? Some places in Japan get 1GIG connections to the home. Amazing what population density does for you. My Bulgarain friend over there has 100 meg(not gig, poor guy) to his home with a small block of fixed IP's for $40 a month. I can get a t1 here for $600 a month. I doubt this board fills up 3 of them full time. But, that is why, early on, I asked the folks in the 'photo post' thread to consider posting link, not photos. Every time a new post comes in and some one clicks on the link, that all gets downloaded again. A thousand people check the thread a few times a day......

[Nitish Kanabar]

Nitish - please don't interpret what I've said as meaning that I think someone who chooses to use a moniker/handle is automatically suspect - even though he or she would be in some photography circles.

Fair enough - yes, I totally agree. Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding.



Of course, a person who chooses to hide their identity by wearing a mask into the local bank might get a less-friendly reception. ;)

Certainly. I don't know about banks - but I think that I'll get more attention and service if I DID show up wearing a mask at a certain photography store in the Bay Area that is notorious for its appaling lack of customer service :). But I digress. The rules governing interaction in a bank, in our living room, and in an online forum are totally different. You'll be very surprised if someone wanted to take your fingerprints so you could enter their living room, right?



While the reasons for the policy is as Tom and I have stated, one side benefit is that it also gives us something to point at as evidence of "due diligence" in the operation of the forum.

We're just trying to stike a reasonable balance here between "free and easy," good community relations (based on our collective forum experience), and strict compliance with U.S. federal regulations.

Ralph, the two reasons stated earlier were courtesy and deterrence - and neither of these will be served by collecting real-names, especially when there is no way to verify this information. In fact we've all seen tempers run high on this forum and some regretable words - some by posters who use their real names. I'm sorry, but I remain unconvinced that these purposes will be served by requiring members to fill-up an additional field.

Regarding US federal regulations, especially COPPA - link http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/coppa.htm.
The law states if you operate a general audience Web site and have actual knowledge that you are collecting personal information from children, you must comply with the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act. This forum is neither directed to children under 13 nor collects personally identifiable information about members it knows to be under 13. Having members fill-up their Date of Birth was reasonable in that respect. Collecting additional information is a slippery slope and the more information you collect, the more you MAY be expected to verify the accuracy of that information.

If the real purpose is to reduce any perceived legal exposure of the moderators then I cannot fault that motivation. :)

[Ralph Barker]

Well, I'm only worried about the posts attatched to my account. . . .
Of course. The potential problem is that the identity of the person behind the accound is a little fuzzy. Send us a list of all of the e-mail and IP addresses you've used in the past, and we'll be sure not to delete the wrong hermit. That's once you've actually requested deletion, of course. ;)

[Brian Ellis]

I've been participating here since 1997 so it's been 9 years. In order for me to be under 15 now I would have to have been 5 years old or younger when I began participating. I admit I've posted some juvenile messages on occasion but surely they didn't look like they came from a five year old!

But I'm just having a little fun with the moderators, who do a great and usually thankless job. I don't mind using my real name at all, I've been doing it since I started here. However, I lied about my birth date, I don't think it's a good idea to give my true birth date out along with my real name.

[hermit]

Of course. The potential problem is that the identity of the person behind the accound is a little fuzzy. Send us a list of all of the e-mail and IP addresses you've used in the past, and we'll be sure not to delete the wrong hermit. That's once you've actually requested deletion, of course. ;)

Well, last time the key words were 'we'll do our best'. I'm simply waiting to make sure you can do this correctly. I don't want to be 'orphaned' from posts that I have no ability to answer. I can provide email addresses, but IP addresses would be impossible. I currently work from a fixed IP, but that has not always been the case.

[Ralph Barker]

. . . I'm simply waiting to make sure you can do this correctly.

no comment

[hermit]

That's once you've actually requested deletion, of course. ;)

Check the 'inbox'.

[BrianShaw]

I've become rather fond of you, Hermit. Can't you just make up a name and birth date and then we can all move on. Heck... I'll even loan you mine! I hope you aren't planning on leaving.

[Wayne]

I think the whole thing is silly and unnecessary. I will either leave or make up a last name, like Sparrowhawk. I have already provided a fake birth date, though the year is correct. Or is it? Silly, silly, silly.


Wayne Sparrowhawk

[hermit]

I've become rather fond of you, Hermit. Can't you just make up a name and birth date and then we can all move on. Heck... I'll even loan you mine! I hope you aren't planning on leaving.

Thanks, but this is a done deal. The mods have agreed to start wiping out my existence on this list.

[mark blackman]

In Europe, unlike the USA, we have data protection legislation that protects us from our private details being shared with others without our permission. There are 'safe harbour' agreements that U.S. organisations can enter into to provide the same level of protection. Is that being offered?

[GPS]

I agree with Wayne. It's silly. Is it a consequence of post 9/11 mentality? If it can be known just to the moderators what is it good for? Sparrowhawk counting? Ok, just birdwatch.

[Tom Westbrook]

Mark, we have a published privacy policy not to share private data with third parites. See the FAQ for that.


In Europe, unlike the USA, we have data protection legislation that protects us from our private details being shared with others without our permission. There are 'safe harbour' agreements that U.S. organisations can enter into to provide the same level of protection. Is that being offered?

[mark blackman]

Mark, we have a published privacy policy not to share private data with third parites. See the FAQ for that. Then I'll trust you to keep to that. Update done.

[Doug Dolde]

How do I change my date of birth?

You have to die and come back in a new body.

[sawa1600]

great but what if i don't likr to add my real name ????

[Ralph Barker]

great but what if i don't likr to add my real name ????

We prefer that people use their real names as their login ID, but don't strictly enforce the policy. The use of real names tends to make people more responsible, and provides greater credibility in most cases. But, there are exceptions, of course.

The real name field in user profiles, as noted earlier in the thread, is visible only to the moderators. Those who choose to hide their identity from both the other users and the administrators are "suspect", but tolerated.

[Duane Polcou]

You know, once you've designed DVD box art for a company that produces soft-core films, and you used you're real name, and the brand new woman in your life Googles you and sees things like "The Erotic Mirror", the whole "maybe I shouldn't use my real name with the Large Format crowd" issue suddenly doesn't carry that much weight.

"But honey, it was an art film..."

[Bule]

Okay moderators, is this your official line:

"We don't trust you to be courteous, regardless of your public record at this site, without surrendering personal information that could potentially put you at risk of identity theft, or worse, but you should trust us to safeguard that personal information based on nothing more than our stated policy and our good word"?

And if we disagree you'll say it's chickenshit? This is not the kind of community I care to be a part of. Please cancel my membership and delete my posts.

Bule

[Ralph Barker]

Bule - I have no idea where you came up with that statement as the official policy of the forum. The official policy is stated in the FAQ, linked in the blue navigation bar.

But, if you are uncomfortable after reading the FAQ, and the responses from moderators (as opposed to comments from other forum members), you are certainly welcome to request deletion of your account and posts via the "contact us" link.

[Bule]

Ralph, isn't my summary of your position accurate? You claim requiring members to provide personal information will somehow make us more courteous, and you've implied a distrust of those who prefer not to do so, calling their preferrence "chickenshit", which is very moderate of you, by the way. When members have expressed well founded concerns regarding providing personal information, you've asked us to trust that you moderators, models of integrity that you are, will not share our personal information. If I might continue your euphemism; bullshit, just like your claim that collecting personal information somehow provides some legal protection, when the legislation aims to prevent the collection of personal information, not to encourage it. Unless you intend to extend your interactions with members beyond this site, it makes absolutely no difference what name the members choose to use here; all of their comments and posts are attributable to them, by whatever name they choose. If you do intend to extend your interactions with members beyond this site, that's cause for concern. If I want to extend my interactions with other members beyond this site, I can easily send a PM giving my personal email address, as I've done, and others have done for me. I think this change in policy reflects nothing more or less than the moderators' selfish curiosity about the identities of members, and a complete disregard for the privacy of the membership in general. If other members are willing to put themselves at risk by providing personal information, that's their right, and I respect their decision, just as I respect the decisions of those members who, for reasons of their own, are not willing to provide personal information as a condition of participation. I will never provide the kind of personal information you're demanding, and this will be my last post here. I don't really care whether or not you delete my past posts, and I'm not interested in jumping through any hoops to see it done; I simply won't post here again.

[Ralph Barker]

Bule - you are attributing comments to the moderators that were made by others. We're simply trying to conform to a reasonable interpretation of the applicable regulations, since it is we, not the users, who bear the liability, even though the resource is free.

You are, of course, free to do as you wish.

[David Luttmann]

I'm 38. That's all you get. You've got my real name.

[hoffner]

I'm hefty 85. Now what Bule says is absolutely correct! How reasonable! What Ralph says is just a week answer that doesn't hold when you look at the reasoning. What liability demands from me to give away my identity with no guarantee for what one can do with it, except week words? Pure rubbish - the liability is a smoke screen for a nasty habit. Bule, you're very right!

[Marko]

I don't see what's all the fuss about - just make something up and nobody's the wiser. ;) What's in a name anyway? It's the man that makes the name anyway, not the other way around.

[Tom Westbrook]

Funny, all the furor over a thread that was started almost two years ago.

[Marko]

Yeah, there are a few threads here that show a real promise of outliving some of the participants... :D

[Ben Chase]

My name is...er....Escimellio Thunderbunny... No..really...

:)

[hoffner]

Funny, all the furor over a thread that was started almost two years ago.

Yeah, and its validity is demanded by moderators since then, funny, eh? Let's laugh then...

[Dave Parker]

Whats so silly about it, it is a free website owned by someone who has chose to make what he states is his rules...if you don't like the rules, requirements or requests of the private owner, there is one simple solution, don't participate, period, the argument whether with or without merit has no bearing on the rules or requests of the owner, the person looking at participation is the one in charge, either you do or you don't...seems simple enough..

[hoffner]

Whats so silly about it, it is a free website owned by someone who has chose to make what he states is his rules...if you don't like the rules, requirements or requests of the private owner, there is one simple solution, don't participate, period, the argument whether with or without merit has no bearing on the rules or requests of the owner, the person looking at participation is the one in charge, either you do or you don't...seems simple enough..

As you put it, it's far from being a "free" website...
But of course, if people's identity and its protection doesn't count for you, it's free...

[Tom Westbrook]

I'm going to go ahead and close this thread. I think all that can be said has already been said over the past two years. Ralph's explanation of the policy is about as plain as its possible to make it. Further questions about this can be emailed to the moderators via the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of every page.