Problems developing Fomapan in a B&W King 5x7 developing tank

[penguinoid]

I've not used my 5x7 camera in a little while but want to get started with it again. One problem I had previously was with agitation during developing Fomapan 100 using a B&W King 5x7 tank. I found that, no matter how careful I was, the film sheets would tend to come loose and stick to each other.

Is this likely poor technique on my part, or is it possible that Fomapan is not quite compatibile with the B&W King developing tanks? Their instructions say "The product uses Kodak, Fujifilm, Ilford film width data design. Users need to use the same data of the film. Film that does not conform to the above data is not suitable for this product."
I guess it's possible than Fomapan is a mm or so smaller than Kodak or Ilford sheet films, and hence doesn't work as well with tank developing. I'm reluctant to switch to another film because they're about four times the price 😅

Has anyone had experience with this? Is switching films the only option? Tray developing isn't a practical option for me as I lack access to a darkroom.

Thanks!

[Michael R]

I haven’t used Foma films but I’d be surprised if they have different dimensions than Ilford/Kodak. These things are standardized.

That BW King thing looks terrible for a variety of reasons but if you don’t have a darkroom I guess you’re kind of stuck with a tank insert of some type. For what it’s worth the best of these I’ve seen/used is the Bounet “B’s” insert. I don’t know how it would do with Foma film as I’ve been told Foma films are easier to scratch.

Hopefully others here will have more advice on how to solve the problem.

[Alan9940]

I can't speak to 5x7" film because I don't shoot that format, but I have developed hundreds of sheets of 4x5" Fomapan 100 in a B&W King tank. Never had a single issue with a sheet dislodging from the reel. I suppose the larger surface area of a 5x7 sheet could be an issue, but I'd be surprised. Are you ensuring that the edge of the film is tucked properly under the bar when fully slid in?

[Conrad . Marvin]

Is your tank made for 13x18mm? The 13x18 film will drop out of a 5x7 film holder so maybe the holder in the tank is a bit bigger to accommodate that size. I’m not familiar with the design of the tank, but it was just a thought.

[Kino]

Here's a thread on Photrio where the manufacturer of King tanks announces their return to production.

Perhaps you can ask him directly what the problem might be:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/b-w-king-large-format-stainless-steel-film-developing-tank.206422/

[penguinoid]

Hi,

Many thanks to everyone for the prompt replies!

In general, I've been pretty happy with my B&W King developing tank. This slight issue has been the only problem -- and it does allow me to develop without a darkroom. (Plus I found tray developing a pain anyway if developing more than two or three sheets of film -- I'm impatient!)

I think my concern about mm differences in film size seems to be misplaced. Thanks for clearing that up.


Are you ensuring that the edge of the film is tucked properly under the bar when fully slid in?
Thanks! I think this might be the issue. I played around with loading a sacrificial sheet of Fomapan I've kept for this purpose, and I think I wasn't quite pushing the film in quite enough, so it wasn't tucked under the bar.

I'd loaded it like this
249701

When I needed to be loading it like this?
249702

From just a brief play with the developing tank (without any developer in it) it seemed to make a big difference. I'll need to practice loading film in the changing bag again and see if I can get it right 😅.

I think I'll stick with Fomapan for now then. Much as I like FP4, it is four times the price.

[Alan9940]

Yes, the second pic you posted is the correct loading of the film.

[penguinoid]

Thanks! Good to know that it was just operator error on my part at least. I'd played around with loading the tank quite a bit before, so it's odd I never thought to try pushing the film in just a few mm more...

I've got some film and developing chemicals on order, so hopefully will try it out over the next few weeks. I'll try practising with my sacrificial sheet of Fomapan in the meantime.

Thanks!

[Joseph Kashi]

I've not used my 5x7 camera in a little while but want to get started with it again. One problem I had previously was with agitation during developing Fomapan 100 using a B&W King 5x7 tank. I found that, no matter how careful I was, the film sheets would tend to come loose and stick to each other.

Is this likely poor technique on my part, or is it possible that Fomapan is not quite compatibile with the B&W King developing tanks? Their instructions say "The product uses Kodak, Fujifilm, Ilford film width data design. Users need to use the same data of the film. Film that does not conform to the above data is not suitable for this product."
I guess it's possible than Fomapan is a mm or so smaller than Kodak or Ilford sheet films, and hence doesn't work as well with tank developing. I'm reluctant to switch to another film because they're about four times the price 😅

Has anyone had experience with this? Is switching films the only option? Tray developing isn't a practical option for me as I lack access to a darkroom.

Thanks!

I have the same tanks and have found with Ilford and Agfa 5x7 film that sheets can come loose if the second (trailing) end is not securely tucked up under the cross lip for each loaded sheet. Feel with your fingertip if needed to ensure that the trailing end of the film sheet is physically prevented from partially sliding back out of the sheet guide. This seems to happen when agitating and could cause sheets to come loose and/or touch.

This no longer happens to me once I checked and verified that each sheet was securely tucked under the cross-piece.

Film sheet dimensions are international standards, so it's unlikely that Foma is a different size.

[penguinoid]

I have the same tanks and have found with Ilford and Agfa 5x7 film that sheets can come loose if the second (trailing) end is not securely tucked up under the cross lip for each loaded sheet. Feel with your fingertip if needed to ensure that the trailing end of the film sheet is physically prevented from partially sliding back out of the sheet guide. This seems to happen when agitating and could cause sheets to come loose and/or touch.

This no longer happens to me once I checked and verified that each sheet was securely tucked under the cross-piece.

Thanks, that's useful. I need to practice a few times before I try developing some more film. I'm waiting for my film to arrive in the mail from Germany, so I have a bit of time to practice.



Film sheet dimensions are international standards, so it's unlikely that Foma is a different size.

Ok, thanks. It'd be less than ideal if there were slight differences between manufacturers, I guess!

[bw-man]

I've not used my 5x7 camera in a little while but want to get started with it again. One problem I had previously was with agitation during developing Fomapan 100 using a B&W King 5x7 tank. I found that, no matter how careful I was, the film sheets would tend to come loose and stick to each other.

Is this likely poor technique on my part, or is it possible that Fomapan is not quite compatibile with the B&W King developing tanks? Their instructions say "The product uses Kodak, Fujifilm, Ilford film width data design. Users need to use the same data of the film. Film that does not conform to the above data is not suitable for this product."
I guess it's possible than Fomapan is a mm or so smaller than Kodak or Ilford sheet films, and hence doesn't work as well with tank developing. I'm reluctant to switch to another film because they're about four times the price ��

Has anyone had experience with this? Is switching films the only option? Tray developing isn't a practical option for me as I lack access to a darkroom.

Thanks!

Dear Penguinoid
Thank you for your trust in B&W KING. I am a large frame photographer, . I independently completed the design of B&W KING. Because I understand the photographer's demand for photography equipment. So in the design and production of B&W KING, with the comprehensive goal of convenience, reliability, sturdiness, and aesthetics, we hope that B&W KING can become a trusted and satisfactory development tool for every large frame photographer.
Let me explain the problem you encountered.
1. In 2008, B&W KING began designing films using Kodak, Fujifilm, ILFORD, and several Chinese brands, which were available for purchase in China. At that time, I did not find Foma film in the Chinese market.
The measurement data for Kodak, Fujifilm, and ILFORD are basically consistent. However, there is a significant difference in film size for a certain brand in China, sometimes it is not possible to insert large format film boxes (large), and sometimes the film boxes may fall out (small). So I specifically state in the product manual: The product uses Kodak, Fujifilm, ILFORD film width data design Users need to use the same data of the film Film that does not conform to the above data is not suitable for this product
2. B&W KING utilizes the bending tension of the film to combine with the can edge cylinder (the last push) to achieve film fixation, ensuring that the film does not fall off during the development process, which is the most important function of the design.
The film installation method requires the use of waste film and repeated practice in a bright environment to master. Only then can one proficiently operate in a darkroom or dark bag to avoid mistakes.
There are different methods for any film development tank, and the same goes for B&W KING. I hope that all photographers can gradually master the techniques and develop their works well during use.
If any photographers have any questions or suggestions, please raise them on the forum for serious discussion and exchange between us. I hope to make sincere friends with all the photographers.
I don't know English, this is computer translation. If there are any mistakes, please forgive me.

[penguinoid]

Dear Penguinoid
Thank you for your trust in B&W KING. I am a large frame photographer, . I independently completed the design of B&W KING. Because I understand the photographer's demand for photography equipment. So in the design and production of B&W KING, with the comprehensive goal of convenience, reliability, sturdiness, and aesthetics, we hope that B&W KING can become a trusted and satisfactory development tool for every large frame photographer.
Let me explain the problem you encountered.
1. In 2008, B&W KING began designing films using Kodak, Fujifilm, ILFORD, and several Chinese brands, which were available for purchase in China. At that time, I did not find Foma film in the Chinese market.
The measurement data for Kodak, Fujifilm, and ILFORD are basically consistent. However, there is a significant difference in film size for a certain brand in China, sometimes it is not possible to insert large format film boxes (large), and sometimes the film boxes may fall out (small). So I specifically state in the product manual: The product uses Kodak, Fujifilm, ILFORD film width data design Users need to use the same data of the film Film that does not conform to the above data is not suitable for this product


Hi!

Many thanks for the comments and suggestions, and for the clarification as to why the manual does not mention Fomapan films specifically. It seems Fomapan works ok.

The B&W King developing tank has been very useful for me -- I don't have a darkroom and so I cannot easily develop film without a 5x7 film development tank, and most others are difficult to find or are very expensive.




2. B&W KING utilizes the bending tension of the film to combine with the can edge cylinder (the last push) to achieve film fixation, ensuring that the film does not fall off during the development process, which is the most important function of the design.
The film installation method requires the use of waste film and repeated practice in a bright environment to master. Only then can one proficiently operate in a darkroom or dark bag to avoid mistakes.
There are different methods for any film development tank, and the same goes for B&W KING. I hope that all photographers can gradually master the techniques and develop their works well during use.


I did actually practice loading the tank in the daylight, but for some reason I didn't notice that I needed to push the film sheet a fraction further (the last push). Now I know this, I'll practice again and hopefully I will not have problems from now. I am sure I will get better with practice.



If any photographers have any questions or suggestions, please raise them on the forum for serious discussion and exchange between us. I hope to make sincere friends with all the photographers.
I don't know English, this is computer translation. If there are any mistakes, please forgive me.

The computer translation did a good job and I understand perfectly. I started to learn Chinese at one point, but unfortunately I never got very far and I did not learn to read or write. Hopefully, I will get a chance to learn more in the future. 谢谢您!