Schneider 355mm f9 g-claron issue

[AlexGard]

I bought this lens a few years ago from a reputable seller on these boards and It came with an issue I have never been able to rectify.

There appears to be some kind of Waterhouse slot, for a filter or some such I don't know.

When I mount the lens on my camera the image is incredibly fogged on the ground glass If I cover the slot with tape it fixes the problem but not entirely, it's hard to cover. So light seems to be getting into the lens.

Is there something missing from this lens? I've not been able to use the lens, which I'd love to do, if it's fixable. As I paid a fair price for it.

Does it need a shutter?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240505/f7f68f8b7682afa694e0d57df47fcc1f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240505/b63be02a04889981ea95f40932df8548.jpg

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[Lachlan 717]

Seems a big gap between elements. I’d suggest measuring the assembly with and without the. Lens board to see whether there is a difference. I can measure mine* in a Copal 3 for total mounted size if you want.

*Later, Plasmat design.

[AlexGard]

Seems a big gap between elements. I’d suggest measuring the assembly with and without the. Lens board to see whether there is a difference. I can measure mine* in a Copal 3 for total mounted size if you want.

*Later, Plasmat design.Nah there is no difference. The seller told me it's for filters. May need a copal 3 and get rid of the barrel
?

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[Lachlan 717]

Some of the G Clarons don’t fit Copals. Especially the earlier S/Ns.

I have a Degor 305mm with 11xxxxxx S/N that doesn’t. Pity; would be great to compare it to my Plasmat.

Try removing it for the board and rescrew them and do the projection test through a window. That will let you know if it projects a sharp image.

[Lachlan 717]

Also, I’ve never seen ANY G Claron with a Waterhouse slot. Still, could be a mod for specific use.

[AlexGard]

Some of the G Clarons don’t fit Copals. Especially the earlier S/Ns.

I have a Degor 305mm with 11xxxxxx S/N that doesn’t. Pity; would be great to compare it to my Plasmat.

Try removing it for the board and rescrew them and do the projection test through a window. That will let you know if it projects a sharp image.Removing the lens board makes no difference. The only thing I think would work is if I reverse the elements and have the barrel mounted on the inside of the bellows. Maybe. In any case, I've ordered a copal 3 shutter. Which I think might fit my 240mm f11 G claron too.

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[AlexGard]

Also, I’ve never seen ANY G Claron with a Waterhouse slot. Still, could be a mod for specific use.The slot looks very specifically machined behind the aperture ring and the seller told me it is for filters. Which I can't see any other evidence of online either. Maybe it's a once off.

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[RichardRitter]

Lens is made as an enlarger lens.
You may be able to mount it on a Copal 3 shutter.

[AlexGard]

Lens is made as an enlarger lens.
You may be able to mount it on a Copal 3 shutter.Thankyou Richard. That was what I had thought. Is this a common thing for people to get caught out with?

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[Jody_S]

I have a couple of process lenses with similar slots, I gather they were for a specific filter used in making images for a printing process. I just put gaffer tape over the slits, after a few years it sort of hardens into place.

[Drew Wiley]

A Waterhouse slot would indicate an older barrel version of this lens intended for graphics applications. Be aware that older Copal 3S shutters have a different fit from later
no.3 shutters, and that you might need a custom adapter either way.

[Len Middleton]

I have had Apo-Nikkors with a similar slot and some filter holders that fit into the slot, but they had a moveable door to close the opening when not in use.

This does not seem to have the same level of thought and execution.

[Drew Wiley]

You'd think GC's would have slot closures too. Maybe in this case someone at some point in time removed it.

[Corran]

Some of the G Clarons don’t fit Copals. Especially the earlier S/Ns.

I have a Degor 305mm with 11xxxxxx S/N that doesn’t. Pity; would be great to compare it to my Plasmat.

Try removing it for the board and rescrew them and do the projection test through a window. That will let you know if it projects a sharp image.

FYI Lachlan, I have a 305mm GC Dagor that fits in a seemingly rare Compur #2 shutter. Covers 8x20, possibly 12x20 but haven't actually shot it on 12x20.

Hard to tell if a given Compur #2 shutter would work, apparently never really standardized like the 0 1 and 3 iirc.

[Lachlan 717]

I think you’re spot on, Bryan.

I need to keep my eye out for one, as I’d love a Dagor version (incl. for 8x10/11x14).

[Andrea Gazzoni]

I bought this lens a few years ago from a reputable seller on these boards and It came with an issue I have never been able to rectify.

There appears to be some kind of Waterhouse slot, for a filter or some such I don't know.

When I mount the lens on my camera the image is incredibly fogged on the ground glass If I cover the slot with tape it fixes the problem but not entirely, it's hard to cover. So light seems to be getting into the lens.

Is there something missing from this lens? I've not been able to use the lens, which I'd love to do, if it's fixable. As I paid a fair price for it.

Does it need a shutter?

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I've owned three or four of these lenses, specifically the 355mm. One in Copal 3, the other were in a barrel like yours.
None of them had any slot, so my guess is a custom work.
I would be curious to see a picture of your lens without the lensboard, the slot area specifically.
Also curious to know where you ordered a Copal 3 nowadays.

[AlexGard]

I've owned three or four of these lenses, specifically the 355mm. One in Copal 3, the other were in a barrel like yours.
None of them had any slot, so my guess is a custom work.
I would be curious to see a picture of your lens without the lensboard, the slot area specifically.
Also curious to know where you ordered a Copal 3 nowadays.EBay has a few copal 3s
Attached some pics

You can see it underneath the aperture indicator mark/circle between the flange and barrel https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240506/eca11f7b6d2cf823665f85f1824eb2f7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240506/0925a04a9a25f6b5739f615d0827b44e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240506/85aa4fc579df40ef93ddc55921cae8e1.jpg

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[Andrea Gazzoni]

Here are pictures of one of my similar mounts.
On mine I don't see much room for any slot between the flange and barrel. Checking your last picture I see your barrel has a black part/ring just below the large white dot of the scale, that part doesn't exist on my samples. Note that my front and rear cells from this mount fit into a Copal 3, not 3S.

[AlexGard]

Here are pictures of one of my similar mounts.
On mine I don't see much room for any slot between the flange and barrel. Checking your last picture I see your barrel has a black part/ring just below the large white dot of the scale, that part doesn't exist on my samples. Note that my front and rear cells from this mount fit into a Copal 3, not 3S.Yes i see the difference. There's no way to remove the slot as it's all part of the hardware.
I guess it's a barrel for enlargers as Richard said. I'll just have to suck eggs and mount them into a copal 3. I've had the lens 5 years or so and never used it. Just want to be able to put it to use for some landscapes.

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[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Can you put lightblocking tape inside the barrel? I had a similar issue with an aerial lens butchered by a home machinist and used black aluminum foil tape on the inside of the barrel rather than the outside (something like this: https://www.thorlabs.us/thorProduct.cfm?partNumber=T205-1.0)

[Drew Wiley]

It's more likely an older GC process lens originally waterhouse equipped from the start. There were all kinds of GC options depending on the intended market. Occasional use of them for enlarging was just a spin-off of certain graphics versions. Mounting them in shutters for sake of studio tabletop shooting was only one branch of these,
but obviously the one which eventually caught on for general large format shooting too. Somebody must have some of the old literature on these things indicating the potential variety they offered. The oldest literature I have stems from the 80's, so is comparatively recent.

[AlexGard]

Update: the copal 3 arrived and the lens seems to have fit into it just fine. Hopefully will get to test it this weekend. It's nice, I've had this lens for 5 years and never been able to use It but hopefully I can use it for the first time.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240514/ec4887be10cd42643baf4512a82c2eaf.jpg

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