Contact printing for dummies

[Jim Rice]

It looks like I will be taking delivery of my green monster in about a month. Another month later and I may have a lens. Figure one more month for holders, film, paper, chemestry, meter, printing frame.......etc. For the forseeable future I will be making B&W contact prints of which I have made one 4x5 under an enlarger (and that was decades ago).

Let us digress even a bit more here. I live in a FEMA trailer, so space is at an incredable premium. Thus, I've pretty much concluded that a Unicolor drum (or two) is pretty much in my future for both film and paper. I'm thinking FP4+ and DD-X recalling a recommendation from Ralph.

We are talking bare bulb paper exposure here. The Kentmere Bromide/130 combination looks promising a as printing medium but i could really use some advice there. I mostly hit upon this as I used to love Kodabromide for enlarging and there is bomide in the name (have I mentioned the "dummies" part yet?). I'm thinking that enlarging paper may be too fast and difficult to control.

So can someone tell me how I am messing up so far? And while you're at it tell me all about contact printing in 8x10 :=P or point me toward some resources.

Thanks, ~j

[Nick_3536]

Further you put the light away the less powerfull. Inverse square rule or something like that. Also smaller bulbs help. When I say smaller I mean less watts. No idea how fast that paper is but you may want to start out with a bulb smaller then 15watts.

[Jim Rice]

I'm also thinking 11x14 as a self-matting print size. Any recommendations for a printing frame would be appreciated.

And thanks, Nick.

[Brian Ellis]

A bare bulb for contact printing is fine, you just need to get it at a wattage and height such that the negative is covered evenly from edge to edge without making your exposure times too long or too short (longer better than shorter so that you can do some dodging and burning). I used to put the bulb in a flood llamp holder bought at Home Depot for about $5 to help spread the light out.

I'm not sure about using 11x14 paper for 8x10 negatives. When you contact print you turn the frame upside down, put the negative on the glass, then put the paper over it and attach the back (at least that's how I did it). So when you put the paper down you can't see the negative to position it in the center of the paper. With 8x10 negatives and paper that isn't a problem, you just hold them together as you're putting them on the glass then make sure they don't move as you attach the frame back. And I guess if your frame was exactly 11x14, or if you just used two pieces of glass instead of a frame, it wouldn't be problem either, you could just center the negative on the glass and make sure it doesn't move as you're putting the paper down. But it's something to think about when you're buying a frame.

The frame I used was made by a guy named Doug Kennedy in California, I don't know if he's still in business and I have no contact information for him. He made frames by hand and they were top quality, with a split back for alt processes and very strong clamps to keep the paper and negative in perfect contact. That's important because if they aren't in perfect contact throughout you get little soft spots in the print. That used to happen when I fused a cheap Premier frame. There also used to be a place called Great Basin Frames or something like that, they had a reputation for top quality as well.

Good luck, contact printing is a lot of fun and if you're in a FEMA trailer you deserve some fun.

[Oren Grad]

I'm also thinking 11x14 as a self-matting print size. Any recommendations for a printing frame would be appreciated

I always make any contact prints that I intend to keep on a piece of paper that's larger than the negative, for two reasons - to have a margin for safety in handling, and to be able to corner mount the print should I ever want to frame it, rather than being forced to hinge or dry mount it.

I would start with two large pieces of quarter-inch glass - say, at least 12x16 if you intend to print on 11x14 paper - rather than with a print frame. Have whoever cuts the glass for you bevel the edges so that you won't cut your fingers all the time.

I have a Premier 11x14 frame which is a piece of junk. I also have Great Basin printing frames in 8x10 and 11x14 sizes, but while they're beautifully made, I still have Newton ring problems with them. I have a vacuum frame that I hope to start experimenting with shortly, but at least among the tricks I've tried so far, the glass sandwich has given me the least trouble with Newton's rings. And as a starting point, it's cheaper, too.

[John Kasaian]

I use a small glass end table top I bought in an import shop (Pier 1?) its a heavy piece of glass with the edges smoothed out and it didn't cost a lot of $$. The bottom of the "sandwich" is a piece of smooth, thick rubber matting I scavenged from somewhere (its been so long I don't remember) A painter's light from the hardware store and a 60 watt bulb. For a safelight I've been using G.E. Guide Lamps (night lights) that came 2 for 79 cents on a card at Walgreen's, but they stopped making them. While I soup film in a Unicolor print drum, I always develop prints in trays---watching the image magically appear is a major "ya-ya" element for me!

Good luck!

[j.e.simmons]

I agree with the idea of the painter's light - mine cost about $10. You can adjust the height easily with that. I've begun using Kentmere Bromide for enlarging, and using exposures in the range of 30sec f/16-22, so you may find that you need a fairly low wattage bulb. I like the look of Ansco 130 with the paper. It gives a little warmth to the paper, but only a little.

Contact printing is great fun.
juan

[Colin Robertson]

okay, don't know if this helps, BUT- check out www.retrophotographic.co.uk They list daylight printing out paper (POP) and contact frames. If you live in a trailer, it might just work for you. I don't know their shipping terms to the USA- the site only says to call for info. Also, their site shows a sample image by Ole Tjuen who (I'm sure) posts here and might advise you. Best of luck.

[John Kasaian]

POP paper is also available in the US, so you could save some $$ on shipping. Chicago Albumen Works or something like that (they're located in Mass. Go figure!) You can print on the roof of your trailer---but you'll need a POP frame (contact frame with a the backhinged down the middle) Put ol' Sol to work!

[Oren Grad]

The problem with POP is that it tends to like beefy negatives developed to a much higher contrast than would be a good fit for enlarging paper. You really have to decide which way you want to go - if you want your negatives to print conveniently on enlarging paper at any point, best to develop them for that purpose now, and tweak your contact printing setup so that you can work comfortably with enlarging paper.

[Paul Metcalf]

Oren -
Doesn't using a staining negative help with dual use negatives? I've been doing some Van Dykes this weekend, very simple, with some success. (I have to visually get over the difference between Azo and Van Dyke blacks).

[Oren Grad]

Paul - good question. Carl Weese published an article a few years back on switch-hitting between Pt/Pd and VC silver paper with pyro-developed negatives. But as I recall, Carl got his best results on the silver side with Agfa MCC, and now that paper is gone. I don't know about substituting POP in the equation - perhaps someone here has tried it and can report.

[Ed K.]

I wouldn't say that POP requires super beefy negs. The stuff is REALLY SLOW though, and it's devilish about requiring absolute clenliness throughout the process as simple as it is. POP seems to be able to print negs with more contrast than just about anything else around, however fairly normal negs can come out fine too. AZO contrast can be controled quite a bit by development / exposure combination. It is possible to get a pretty nice POP of something that would also make a nice AZO ( favoring the AZO #2 ). I've done POP with good results in a 1K exposure unit with vacuum frame. The sun is so inconsistant, or bright enough for so little of the day, that it is frustrating. For a couple of prints per day, ok - but you've got all the gold toner out and so on.

Don't bother with the cheap photo store print frames. They are a kludge to use, and the glass is usually of the worst quality. The suggestion for some good flat glass from a glass shop, 1/4" thick, and with beveled edges is a good one. For 8x10, I use an old wooden top loading contact printer with nice new glass and a piece of frosted plex to cut the UV light down to a working level for AZO. Larger paper would be nice though, however the super contact is worth it. For the best contact print, you need the best contact you can get.

I tried Kentmere Document #2 for contacts. With effort, contrast could be reduced enough to print negs that were on the soft side and more compressed. Some successful prints and a nice paper at that. While not as fast as many modern VC papers, it was still much faster than AZO, which means you don't need a lot of light - a 5 watt is enough.

Tough work developing contacts in a drum! Seems like it would take a lot more time to do, and you'd need safelight or darkness for part of the operation. Maybe you can get some blackout cloth for your bathroom...

There's also washing and drying and all that. Are there any photo rental labs in your area, or community colleges remaining?

[Jim Rice]

Hi Ed,
I was under the impression that AZO had been discontinued. Am I wrong? I would certainly start there if that were a long (or medium) term option. I would assume that it requires considerably more light for exposure than the Kentmere and I'm pretty sure a 1kw source is some ways down the road. So that would leave me with God's own contact printing light source if lots of UV is required. How reasonable is that with AZO? I'll research AZO now that it may be an option.
Alas, I've surveyed the humble FEMA trailer and there is simply no available space for a tray setup. I'm pondered something along the NOVA lines but other than the "juice" of watching the image appear, in house (as it were) drum processing to completion seems the only option.
Frankly I haven't even looked into the rental darkroom/CC course options as even though New Orleans appears to be an almost working city, just a scratch beneath the surface so often reveals........nothing. I remain open to suggestion.
Thanks, Jim

[Ed K.]

Jim,
I stocked up an AZO and I'm saving up negs for the ultimate contacts on it. I would not be surprised to learn that Michael and Paula still have some in larger or smaller sizes than 8x10. I have not checked to see the status of their plan to have some made anew - that was the last I checked. If you're interested, get in touch with them. I think I'll kick in some advance bucks to the next run so that it gets done - perhaps others might do the same. Their web site is http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/newpaper.html. Remember, AZO is a slow, extremely fine grained contact paper ( it is NOT for enlarging, and at least the original AZO was much finer grained than enlarging paper, which makes a difference ). You will still need a safelight situation to work in it, unlike the dim daylight handling of POP.

AZO happens to LOVE UV light, however a fairly strong ( 50+ watt ) light works fine too. Unless you are doing production printing, longer exposures are generally good to get better control over the exposure / development ratios and also to do any dodging or burning. You do NOT need sunlight for AZO, however for POP you do need that or at least a lot of UV.

You know, there are neighboring states that almost surely have darkrooms, plus perhaps other parts of your state. Maybe you might post a wanted ad in the proper section here to find someone who might help. You could maybe take a road trip ( or bus / train? ) for a weekend out to do your printing, and then at least your prints would be properly washed and dried, which is a big part of it.

While it is expensive, you could consider Polaroids, or for that matter, sending out your prints to a lab to get them done. Of course, you probably want to do this yourself, so maybe that's not such a good idea...

We sent donations for relief, however we never thought of sending a B&W lab, perhaps in a trailer out there! I wonder if you could get a government grant to build one - you might be famous one day and the father of the B&W revival there.

Best of luck to you!!!!

Oops - one more comment. A 1K light source is WAY TOO MUCH light for AZO. A plate burner, as I have, is suited to alternative processes ( and POP too ). AZO is a regular contact printing paper, and you can use an ordinary light bulb.

[jshanesy]

I was under the impression that AZO had been discontinued.

Azo is no longer manufactured. However, Smith/Chamlee still has a large stock of grade 2 from the last run. Years' worth. Grade 3 is gone, but they are having a new paper, Lodima Fine Art, manufactured in both grades 2 and 3.

The grade 2 Azo that's left needs a very contrasty negative, as the paper is softer than prior runs of grade 2 and has an unbelievably long scale. Negatives for this paper should also be a great deal more dense than negatives suitable for enlargement.

If you're new to contact printing, I'd start with POP from Chicago Albumen Works. All you need is the paper, a contact printing frame, the toner (which CAW will sell you) and fixer. You don't need plain hypo, or amidol and associated chemicals as you do with Azo. Furthermore you don't have to worry about a light source.

[Ed K.]

On the contrary, you do need plain hypo for POP. If you use rapid fix or whatever, you'll certainly wipe out the image - it will practically melt away before your eyes. Also, if you don't want orange-blood red prints, you must use gold toner and or selenium toner. Selenium turns out muddy looking I'd say, but gold or gold and selenium split toning is good. The good news is that the hypo part is cheap and easy to get. Gold toner isn't exactly cheap, and it must be protected from contamination.

The bummer of POP aside from cost, is the toning part. Another bummer of it is that even the slighteset chemical contamination, whether from the glass of the contact frame, or somewhere in the drying process can produce stains or irregular areas. It also requires quite a bit of water to clear the stuff. However, once you get it working with a long scale neg, it can do a huge tonal range.

As to AZO #2 - yes, it can really hold scale, but developing it longer makes fairly normal negs print pretty darned nice. It has a very manipulatable contrast range. If you have negs that are too soft to print on AZO #2, then Kentmere Document would be terrific if you keep the development pretty short. I'm sure that you can find a 5w little desklamp with a clamp on it at an online hardware store.

If you want an easy to do contact process and don't mind unusual effects in the print, or colors, you might try cyanotype or even salt prints. While you may have to coat yourself for the salt prints, at least the clearing and toning parts are not an issue. I think that there are cyanotype kits with pre-coated paper from Freestyle. Good for some fun at least...

[sanking]

Paul - good question. Carl Weese published an article a few years back on switch-hitting between Pt/Pd and VC silver paper with pyro-developed negatives. But as I recall, Carl got his best results on the silver side with Agfa MCC, and now that paper is gone. I don't know about substituting POP in the equation - perhaps someone here has tried it and can report.

If you know what you are doing it is definitely possible to develop dual-purpose negatives that will print equally well with VC silver papers and with POP. For some understanding of how this works see my article on pyro staining developers at http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PCat/pcat.html.

In brief, an FP4 negative that is developed for 7-8 minutes in Pyrocat-HD at about 72F with rotary processing will have about the same effective printing contrast with a VC silver paper using #2 filter as with POP. This is due to the difference between the effective printing contrast of VC papers to blue/green light and POP which is primarily sensitive to UV light.

To optimize the stain difference between blue/green and UV processes I recommend a pyrocatchin based staining developer (DiXactol, Pyrocat-HD, etc.) over pyrogallol based developers. The article explains why.

Sandy

[jshanesy]

On the contrary, you do need plain hypo for POP. If you use rapid fix or whatever, you'll certainly wipe out the image


The starter kit that I got with my POP order from CAW contained gold chloride, ammonium thiocyanate and regular (ammonium thiosulfate) Kodak fixer. I fixed my POP prints in it just fine. By "plain fixer" I mean sodium thiosulfate prismatic rice crystals and it's definitely not necessary with CAW Centennial POP.

[j.e.simmons]

Jim,
Don't you have a bathtub in that trailer? My bathtub in my apartment is where I develop my prints in trays. It's not the most convenient arrangement, but it does work.
juan

[Jim Rice]

Okay, so now I'm thinking:FP4+/Pyrocat-HD/Lodima/amidol/selinium.........it seems like quite a learning curve, but one has to confront these issues at some point. Anyone want to warn me off of this combination?
Oh, and thanks folks.
~jim

[sanking]

Okay, so now I'm thinking:FP4+/Pyrocat-HD/Lodima/amidol/selinium.........it seems like quite a learning curve, but one has to confront these issues at some point. Anyone want to warn me off of this combination?
Oh, and thanks folks.
~jim


Jim,

FP4+ and Pyrocat-HD is a very nice combination for printing on silver chloride papers like AZO, and hopefully at some point in the future, Lodima.

At this point Lodima is not available, and likely will not be for a few months. However, my understanding is that Michael Smith still has a good supply of AZO #2 for sale, and although some people don't like it because it needs a negative with a lot of contrast, say DR of about 1.6, you can easily get enough contrast for AZO 2 with FP4+ and Pyrocat-HD.

Sandy

[Jim Rice]

Sandy, A casual reading of J&C's site offers very little insight on the availability of either AZO or Ladima.......got a URL? If not a public one, then jimmy70001@hotmail.com. Thanks, ~jim

[sanking]

Sandy, A casual reading of J&C's site offers very little insight on the availability of either AZO or Ladima.......got a URL? If not a public one, then jimmy70001@hotmail.com. Thanks, ~jim

Jim,

Lodima is definitely not available for shipment at this time.

Also, I may be mistaken about continuing supplies of AZO #2. I was under the impression from other exchanges that Michael Smith still had a good supply of AZO 2 for sale, but in an off-list message someone suggest this may not be the case. Best thing would be to contact Michael directly about this.

Sandy

[Jim Rice]

Oh, and Sandy......having skimmed your Pyrocat-HD article on the michealandpaula site (I have a couple of months to absorb it) you make reference to effective film speeds vis-a-vis developement. I realise they are closely intertwined and there are no hard and fast rules here, but could you (or anyone else) suggest a starting point for FP-4+, assuming the above conditions?

[Jim Rice]

Perhaps I wasn't clear.....I mean for exposure index.
~j

[sanking]

Oh, and Sandy......having skimmed your Pyrocat-HD article on the michealandpaula site (I have a couple of months to absorb it) you make reference to effective film speeds vis-a-vis developement. I realise they are closely intertwined and there are no hard and fast rules here, but could you (or anyone else) suggest a starting point for FP-4+, assuming the above conditions?

Jim,

If you develop FP4+ in Pyrocat-HD for the high contrast needed for AZO #2 I would suggest an EFS of about 160. Depending on your method of metering your EI may be very different of course.

Sandy