When to use a black mat for B&W photograph?

[Patrik Roseen]

Here is another one related to framing Black and White Photographs.
I have been using only light (white) standard mats for framing my Black and white prints.
I am curious about using dark (black) mats for my prints but would like some advice what kind of prints are best displayed in these...? And does it matter what type of photograph is printed, e.g. a portrait of someone who passed away, i.e. does the black mat bring some kind of social signals to the viewer? Any thoughts around this is appreciated. Thanks, Patrik.

[Louie Powell]

Patrick -

I my opinion, there are two considerations involved here. One is aesthetic - what looks best. In general, I think black and white prints look best on white mats, but that's very much a matter of personal taste, and I'm not about to make any pronouncements about absolute truth in this area.

The second is convenience - stocking one kind of matt board surely makes life simpler for the photographer.

As a result of those two views, I almost always use white mat board with my black and white prints. The one exception is if I am hand coloring the image - when I hand color, I selectively add pastel colors in only a few portions of the image, and I think using a black mat helps enhance the color effect.

[Colin Robertson]

Two things- with high key images (for example, snow-scapes, or a still life on a white backround) a black mat helps 'contain' the image. With a white mat the image can seem to bleed away into nothing.
Secondly, where will the picture be hung? I've just shown some stuff in a local exhibition. It was a huge white space full of photos and paintings framed almost exclusively with (you guessed it) white mats. Black matted images might just have stood out more boldly in that company. Just a thought.

[Ralph Barker]

The few times that I've used black mattes have mostly been with high-key images, too.

[jnantz]

hi patrik

i just finished a project making a hand stitched book.
most of the images were dark an lots of mid tones.
the prints were all trimmed and "tipped" on black rag and stitched between
covers.

if i had used white mats, the images wouldn't have looked as nice. the dark mats brought out all the brooding mid-tones.

i don't use black mats often, but when i do, i always wonder why i don't use them more often.

-john

[Robert A. Zeichner]

I recently completed a series of architectural studies in the Greek Isles. A couple of these were abstracts that encompassed a full range of tones, but had large areas of very light gray and black running right out to the edge. They look pretty good on a white mat, but then I tried them on black and was impressed with the drama. The glossy black of the print contrasts enough with the flat black of the mat to avoid a total merge of the two. I suggest laying the print on a black board and see what it does for you.

[Henry Ambrose]

Don't overlook light gray for matting. Try some variations until you find one that goes with your paper and print tone, you might like it.

[Brian Ellis]

I think black or any other colored mat calls attention to itself and tends to distract a viewer from the photograph. For that reason I never use anything other than white mats.

[Oren Grad]

I am curious about using dark (black) mats for my prints but would like some advice what kind of prints are best displayed in these...?

None. I agree with Brian.

[Capocheny]

Patrik,

I think it's a matter of personal opinion and tastes. The perfect mat is the one you like and that will compliment your image. I'd also suggest... lay your image down and frame it with the mat(s) you're considering. Then, decide on what version suits your print.

But, I've not heard of any hard and fast rules in this regard though. :)

Secondly, it will also depend on what you're doing with the print. Are you hanging it in a gallery? If so, the gallery will certainly provide you with some insight into what their expectations are.

Personally speaking, I'm with Brian and Oren on this one. I've only ever used white mats for my images.

Cheers

[Patrik Roseen]

Thanks for all responses...and as expected there is more than one view on this topic. Your words are almost the ones I had gone through in my head before posting this question.
So it seems most photographers use white mats and very seldom the black mats, and as Henry points out there are variations of grey mats to consider too. If one wants to stand out a black or grey mat could be it as Colin puts it.
I did put a black mat over my existing prints and the one that looked best was actually a very dark print of some clarinets on a black background, where the mat brought out the mid-tones in the print (similar to what John said). The picture actually looked very exclusive...so Brian and Oren are right in saying that the mat draws attention...sometimes this could then actually be a good thing for the total 'package'.

It is also interesting that it might work better for color prints as Louie states. Come to think of it, when I put a picture on the web I usually put a white frame around the b&w and a black frame around the color pictures. Many people on the web also ask the viewer to use a black background when looking at their pictures.

Since you did not bring up any 'social signals' related to black mats...I will nolonger consider any myself. Again thanks for all your thoughts.
Kind regards, Patrik

[Allen Quinn]

I once used black mat board for all of my B&W prints. All of the opions stated above are valid, but there is an issued not discussed. This may not apply to your situation. Few photographers lug matted prints around in portfolio cases these days. However, if you do, I have found the black mats tend to show damage more readily than white mats.

[paulr]

Answer #1: there are no rules; do what looks and feels best to you, whatever best fits your vision.

Answer #2: black mats will probably remind most sophisticated viewers of art fair pictures and home photo albums, and on some level will influence them to see your pictures as amateurish. life is hard enough already. don't make it worse by immitating kitsch.

[Patrik Roseen]

...Answer #2: black mats will probably remind most sophisticated viewers of art fair pictures and home photo albums, and on some level will influence them to see your pictures as amateurish. life is hard enough already. don't make it worse by immitating kitsch.

Paul, now this is interesting...so you mean there is a 'social signal' anyway? or I suppose what you mean is that professionals have realized what Brian and Oren was saying that no picture looks good in a black mat? I have not been to many art fairs...

With the glass on top of the black mat the picture looked like a Rado-design, maybe that is kitsch...

BTW Paul, I honestly enjoyed your portfolio (pdf), my heart was pounding faster and faster as I looked through it..could not resist flipping to the next and the next, Thanks! Kind regards, Patrik

[Jeffrey Sipress]

I have sometimes used a double matt with black and white boards, with the black being the thin inner matt inside a white matt, and also the opposite. This can be very elegant.

[Kirk Gittings]

I have experimented occasionally with this over the years and always come back to white for b&w and color. Though I do vary the color of the white mats occasionally from bright white to antique white. This issue is basically settled for me and I worry about other things. The only time I find black mats acceptable is on the web. See the link below for one of my recent shows of both color (Cibachrome and ink) and b&w (silver and ink prints). The wall is a light grey which set off the images and mats well. White works well for most everything.

http://www.gittingsphoto.com/content.html?page=3
(http://www.gittingsphoto.com/content.html?page=3)

Just curious has anyone ever seen a photo show at a major museum with anything but white or no mat?

[paulr]

Paul, now this is interesting...so you mean there is a 'social signal' anyway? or I suppose what you mean is that professionals have realized what Brian and Oren was saying that no picture looks good in a black mat? I have not been to many art fairs...

yes, i think there is a definite social signal. almost every aspect of artwork and presentation has an element of social signal ... any choice is going to end up part of some tradition and anathema to some other.

in this case a lot of it is rooted in practical things, i'm sure. the things Brian and Oren said probably play a part. On top of that, white tends to be better for uniformity. Assuming the images are printed well by traditional standards (and have well resolved edges and corners) white mats will work with just about every image. so all of your work (and all the work in a gallery, or a museum), can be presented uniformly, without mats demanding attention.

a caveat ... white mats too are a part of some traditions and anethema to others. if you're showing work in places concerned with the cutting edge or the trendy, a museum case full of white-matted silver prints might be as good as a one-way ticket to the old folks home. but in those cases, black mats probably aren't the answer either ... think lucite, or barnwood, or battleship armor ;)


With the glass on top of the black mat the picture looked like a Rado-design, maybe that is kitsch...

it might work. it might be perfect. i think you need to look at each case individually, and see what will best serve your vision, and your goals for the project. what i've been saying has just been generalizations to consider.


BTW Paul, I honestly enjoyed your portfolio (pdf), my heart was pounding faster and faster as I looked through it..could not resist flipping to the next and the next, Thanks! Kind regards, Patrik

Thank you very much for looking, and for the kind words!

[Jim Ewins]

It is nice to agree with paulr, " There is no rule...". Jeffery's point with double matting, the inner matt can help to prevent visual bleed out.

[Kirk Gittings]

"Jeffery's point with double matting, the inner matt can help to prevent visual bleed out" if the edges of the print are done well they never bleed out.

I hate to be an old foggy.......but I sense here in some of the arguements an attempt to make the mat make up for some inadequacies in the image or the print.

[Ben Crane]

Some one once told me that if you have a point to make, make it with a photograph not a frame. I think this applies to mats also, so I agree with the point about using a white mat. But then there is the question of using bright white, natural white, etc...

[John Berry]

I have recently had a print that had a lot of detail in the lower zones. in a white mat, the detail was not all that evident. My mentor suggested a black matt. When placed in a black matt the detail in the lower zones were much more evident. I would never have thought of it, but in this image, it worked better than a white one. Kirk, I just did a print not too long ago of a snow scene, and it did look better with a thin black undermat to seperate the scene from the matt. These are the only times I have ever used anything other than white, but in these two instances, it worked. Breaking rules sometimes have pleasant results.

[Kirk Gittings]

I know my attitiude about mats is old school, but there is a discipline to the white mat approach that forces you into an aesthetic rigor (some would say into an aesthetic straightjacket, I suppose).

Being able to see the subject in terms of the final product, as a matted print, is what we used to refer to as previsualization. Matting is a part of that. So you framed things diffferently if you suspected that the edges would be too light and bleed into the white of the mat etc.

[Patrik Roseen]

Thanks everyone...great discussion.
As I stated in my original question I have so far only been using white mats and was curious about using a black mat. It seems there are now atleast three different opinions on this. 1) Some (most?) who think that a white mat is the one and only mat to use, where the objective is to show the framed PRINT in the best possible way, and if it doesn't look good it is the PRINT that does not have the right qualities 2) Some who will use the mat that best fits (supports) the print...and will use a black mat if the image tends to bleed out when using a white mat. 3) Those who will use or suggests the mat that best fits the purpose of the 'total package', i.e. print, mat and possibly frame (Kitsch?)

Maybe the question should be rephrased into: Do you view your print as the final product or do you look at the total package where the print is only one third of the end result = 'print+mat+frame' ?
Would a painting of Rembrand look the same if it was framed in aluminum and what about a Picasso in a classic Golden frame with ornaments? Could the framing actually represent different eras ... and does photography ever enter a new one?
Just curious...


...Being able to see the subject in terms of the final product, as a matted print, is what we used to refer to as previsualization. Matting is a part of that. So you framed things diffferently if you suspected that the edges would be too light and bleed into the white of the mat etc.
Kirk, this is actually something I asked about in a previous thread some time ago, see
Composing for framing? (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=17306)

You are all great people!

[Alan Davenport]

Glancing through the responses, I didn't see any reference to using white mats with a black core. I've framed a few images using double white surface/black core mats. The effect can be very striking without being overwhelming. Try using different textures of white surface for the two mats.