Help! Mouse Pee On Negatives!

[John Layton]

Nightmare scenario here...with a number of 5x7 negative sleeves having been evidently peed on by a mouse, with the sleeves then having wicked some of this pee in to "infect" about a dozen or so images, about half of which are "keepers."

So what I've done so far is to very carefully cut the sleeves apart and discard them, then run the infected negatives through a series of four trays...two of plain water and two with Photo-Flo - in nitrile-gloved hands and very gently rubbing the areas affected.

The cleaned up negatives, when viewed in oblique light, do show a bit of difference in the affected areas - but this is very subtle. When viewed on a lightbox, I can see absolutely nothing indicating that they'd been affected.

Question: my guess is that our slightly alkaline deep-well water would tend to help neutralize what must have been some rather acidic pee...but have I gone far enough? Should I run these negatives through a tray of (alkaline) TF-5 fixing bath, then rewash them?

[Michael R]

TF-5 is not alkaline.

[John Layton]

Mind fart about TF-5...as I'd switched over from the (slightly alkaline) TF-4 last year.

[Drew Wiley]

TF-4 seems to be the Neanderthal species approaching extinction due to the presence of a more efficient species. Just like Neanderthals, it tended to settle down too much, and was resistant to mixing. Once I tried TF5, there was no going back. No more guck stuck to the bottom of the bottle, yet the same excellent result, with no change in protocol.

I have no experience with mouse pee. The entire exterior perimeter of the darkroom building is patrolled by cats.

[xkaes]

Urine is usually very close to PH 7 -- unless this mouse has a kidney disease. Why do you assume it is acidic? Coincidentally, I tested mine last week and it was 6.8. You probably don't have to worry about the PH , but it might have other stuff in it you don't want on your negatives. So distilled water should be fine for cleaning.

[phdgent]

Just a question about this (not an advise nor a statement) but, in this particular situation, shouldn't these 'infected' negatives be washed with a kind of disinfecting (household-) soap and well rinsed thereafter?
Soap is alkalic, mainly made with KOH or NaOH in it, could it then neutralise the effects of urine, and kill the bacteria that are in the urine and can go om living in the emulsion's gelatine?

Just wondering...

[John Layton]

As for mouse pee being acidic...according to my online sources it is certainly very acidic. But then again...these are online sources - and we know how that can go!

Very interesting point about the possibility of bacteria feeding on my negatives (pause here for an Edvard Munch Scream...) - and that maybe I should be cleaning them with something strongly disinfective...but then I'd worry about that also in terms of potential negative damage.

So...I think I'll just go my regimen of two plain (slightly alkaline) water baths, followed by two with Photo-Flo, and then keep my fingers crossed!

[xkaes]

Urine normally has very low levels of bacteria, and a PH close to 7. It's not as bad as many assume.

[JMO]

The vicissitudes of living with nature. The urine will have had various manner of salts, minerals and proteins (etc.) in it, so your Photo Flo or even a film cleaner product that is designed to remove fingerprints (mostly composed of greasy or oily sebum) should help to remove whatever was suspended and excreted in that mouse pee....

[MrFujicaman]

John, as to killing off germs, get a pint of Everclear from the liquor store and pour some in a baggie and shake the negs with it.

[tundra]

Nightmare scenario here...with a number of 5x7 negative sleeves having been evidently peed on by a mouse, with the sleeves then having wicked some of this pee in to "infect" about a dozen or so images, about half of which are "keepers."

So what I've done so far is to very carefully cut the sleeves apart and discard them, then run the infected negatives through a series of four trays...two of plain water and two with Photo-Flo - in nitrile-gloved hands and very gently rubbing the areas affected.

The cleaned up negatives, when viewed in oblique light, do show a bit of difference in the affected areas - but this is very subtle. When viewed on a lightbox, I can see absolutely nothing indicating that they'd been affected.

Question: my guess is that our slightly alkaline deep-well water would tend to help neutralize what must have been some rather acidic pee...but have I gone far enough? Should I run these negatives through a tray of (alkaline) TF-5 fixing bath, then rewash them?


I am very sorry about your misfortune and hope you are getting great advice here. But, I have to say, this is the greatest thread title I've ever seen.

[John Layton]

Well that's interesting...because it just so happens that another thread title of mine: "Engine Out Equals Floppy Tranny?" got a huge amount of likes as "the best thread title ever!" on the Pelican Parts Porsche Technical forum.

Oh...and to translate: When I'd lowered the engine out of my Porsche 944 so that I could rebuild it, the transmission (located in the rear of the car) suddenly felt quite loose and "floppy," which is actually normal, but which at the time I'd found extremely unsettling...and so in a state of panic I'd posted the first thing that came to mind as a plea for help...much as the case here with my peed-on negatives!

Postscript: I'm happy to report that all of the peed-on negatives have now been cleaned up and inserted into fresh sleeves...and that they all look fine! (edit: whew!)

[Keith Pitman]

What happened to the mouse?

[gypsydog]

I hope you've learned your lesson and started using a trackpad and ditched the mouse.

[John Layton]

Traps have been in place for two nights...but no mouse!

Thing is...I'd been away from my darkroom for over a week - and it was during this time that the mouse came along and wreaked havoc with its pee - but only on two areas on my lab (enlarger) bench...a pile of negative sleeves and the inside of a drawer just under this where I store enlarger lenses (which are all untouched).

Before this event I'd never seen any mouse-related evidence on, inside, or around the lab bench (although I did have a pile of mouse babies drop into my darkroom sink from an opening in the ceiling awhile ago!). But the thing about mice is that if a cozy dark room remains unused for even a few days - they tend to show up. So my bad for not placing the negative sleeves back into their "mouse proof" storage boxes up on their shelves in an adjoining room.

In the meantime (being reminded of Drew's post)...its been awhile since we've been in the company of cats - so maybe its time!

[jnantz]

Traps have been in place for two nights...but no mouse!

Thing is...I'd been away from my darkroom for over a week - and it was during this time that the mouse came along and wreaked havoc with its pee - but only on two areas on my lab (enlarger) bench...a pile of negative sleeves and the inside of a drawer just under this where I store enlarger lenses (which are all untouched).

Before this event I'd never seen any mouse-related evidence on, inside, or around the lab bench (although I did have a pile of mouse babies drop into my darkroom sink from an opening in the ceiling awhile ago!). But the thing about mice is that if a cozy dark room remains unused for even a few days - they tend to show up. So my bad for not placing the negative sleeves back into their "mouse proof" storage boxes up on their shelves in an adjoining room.

In the meantime (being reminded of Drew's post)...its been awhile since we've been in the company of cats - so maybe its time!

if you use the victor electric traps you might even be able to get some kirlian photographs of your mice as they go into the next realm ...

[Kevin Crisp]

Next time develop them in Rodentnol.

[tundra]

Well that's interesting...because it just so happens that another thread title of mine: "Engine Out Equals Floppy Tranny?" got a huge amount of likes as "the best thread title ever!" on the Pelican Parts Porsche Technical forum.

Oh...and to translate: When I'd lowered the engine out of my Porsche 944 so that I could rebuild it, the transmission (located in the rear of the car) suddenly felt quite loose and "floppy," which is actually normal, but which at the time I'd found extremely unsettling...and so in a state of panic I'd posted the first thing that came to mind as a plea for help...much as the case here with my peed-on negatives!

Postscript: I'm happy to report that all of the peed-on negatives have now been cleaned up and inserted into fresh sleeves...and that they all look fine! (edit: whew!)

Clearly, there is nothing more disconcerting than a floppy tranny ...

[tundra]

Next time develop them in Rodentnol.

Or d-CON 76

[Jim Jones]

I am very sorry about your misfortune and hope you are getting great advice here. But, I have to say, this is the greatest thread title I've ever seen.

It might have been even more intriguing without that exclamation mark! Don't be peed off because of what the mice pee on: establish a cooperative working relationship with them. Ever persuade one to model for you? Even my farm cats admired this model so much after it's brief on-camera appearance that they invited it to lunch. (Speed Graphic with open shutter, flash triggered by contacts on mouse trap)

[Kevin Crisp]

I think you nailed "the decisive moment" there.

[JMO]

Traps have been in place for two nights...but no mouse!

Thing is...I'd been away from my darkroom for over a week - and it was during this time that the mouse came along and wreaked havoc with its pee - but only on two areas on my lab (enlarger) bench...a pile of negative sleeves and the inside of a drawer just under this where I store enlarger lenses (which are all untouched).

Before this event I'd never seen any mouse-related evidence on, inside, or around the lab bench (although I did have a pile of mouse babies drop into my darkroom sink from an opening in the ceiling awhile ago!). But the thing about mice is that if a cozy dark room remains unused for even a few days - they tend to show up. So my bad for not placing the negative sleeves back into their "mouse proof" storage boxes up on their shelves in an adjoining room.

In the meantime (being reminded of Drew's post)...its been awhile since we've been in the company of cats - so maybe its time!

John, Mice leave their signs. Look for their little terds, which will be about the size of loose black tea, but the individual droppings are more robust. They will mostly be found along the perimeter edges of the room, or along the edges of appliances, as the mice prefer to explore by following such edge routes.

Also, their offending "pee" will fluoresce under a black light, so if you have or can get one of those you'll be able to see (better so under darkened conditions) where they have been moving around within your DR or elsewhere in your home. And since those fluorescing pee trails indicate their major routes of travel and exploration within your home, those will be especially good places to put out your snap traps. And when it comes to snap traps, simply a few strands or a little puff off a cotton ball, wrapped around the trigger flap of the trap, will serve as good as anything. There's no need to waste any of your decent Vermont cheddar, or your peanut butter, though those are not bad choices; as the mice are also foraging around your home looking for nesting materials, and so will be attracted to the cotton fibers. And if you wrap the trap's trigger in the some cotton strands the mice will literally be yanking on their own death trap's trigger before their sudden demise!

[monochromeFan]

mice pee aint nice... it can corrode chrome plated wrenches

[tundra]

It might have been even more intriguing without that exclamation mark! Don't be peed off because of what the mice pee on: establish a cooperative working relationship with them. Ever persuade one to model for you? Even my farm cats admired this model so much after it's brief on-camera appearance that they invited it to lunch. (Speed Graphic with open shutter, flash triggered by contacts on mouse trap)

In my experience, farm cats are straightup gangsters ...

[xkaes]

Yet another photographic opportunity.

249111

[Kevin Crisp]

"Say cheese!"

[John Layton]

Ha! Caught it! But is it THE mouse :confused:

...couldn't quite bring myself to photograph it (and Jim, what a creative use of a mouse trap as flash trigger!).

John, thanks for the tip about fluorescence...I've got a UV "scorpion-finder" flashlight and will keep this in my darkroom!

And kevin, as a (slight) aside...if you find yourself photographing a group but are really not all that into the cliche request - have them say "fromage" (I've actually tried this!)...which will have at least half of them scratching their heads! (but the mice will be fine with this...getting around as they do - they've long since all become multi-lingual)