Gold Toning

[Two23]

I'm doing well in my printing class at a nearby university. I've been using Ilford Multigrade RC paper so far. It looks nice and is reasonably priced enough to learn on. However, my goal is to make archival 8x10 prints. I intend to try selenium toning as I like a warm look, but while selenium toned RC paper will probably work for my "everyday" prints, I'm still wanting something for the long term. My instructor is pushing me towards gold toning on Hahnemule Platinum paper. I don't plan on getting an 8x10 enlarger (!) but do have a small enlarger I can make 8x10 contact prints from either film negs or wet plate glass negs. Any advice?

[paulbarden]

I'm doing well in my printing class at a nearby university. I've been using Ilford Multigrade RC paper so far. It looks nice and is reasonably priced enough to learn on. However, my goal is to make archival 8x10 prints. I intend to try selenium toning as I like a warm look, but while selenium toned RC paper will probably work for my "everyday" prints, I'm still wanting something for the long term. My instructor is pushing me towards gold toning on Hahnemule Platinum paper. I don't plan on getting an 8x10 enlarger (!) but do have a small enlarger I can make 8x10 contact prints from either film negs or wet plate glass negs. Any advice?

Gold toning of what process?? I assume you're talking about Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag, which is an alt process cotton paper. It has no emulsion on it, it's used for Platinum, Kallitype, Salt Prints, etc. Is that what you're talking about? You don't need an enlarger for those processes, you contact print under UV banks or sunlight. These processes are often toned with Gold chloride toner, both for color and permanence. Is this what you mean?

[xkaes]

Maybe it varies with different papers, but selenium toner on the Ilford RC paper that I use creates no change in the tone (if dilute) or a change toward purple -- not warm. Gold toners can create a brownish tone, but that varies as well. Both will create archival stabilization, but if you just want stabilization, try Sistan. It imparts no tone at all -- but it can be used after toners that do have a tone. Gold toning is not cheap, either. If your "goal is to make archival 8x10 prints", use Sistan or dilute selenium -- or both (dilute selenium will increase DMAX).

[Two23]

I'm just wanting to make silver gelatin prints on something more archival than RC paper. I do prefer a warm tone, maybe even almost sepia. The negative will be 8x10 FP4+, contact printed. I'm not getting into coating papers (such as Van Dyke) just yet.

[xkaes]

You can always use RC paper to test your archival process -- even if RC paper is not archival enough for your standards -- and then move to a fiber-based paper once you've settle on a method.

[Two23]

Taking a look at B&H selection, this is what I seem to come up with.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/755263-REG/Ilford_1168419_Multigrade_FB_Warmtone_Fiber.html/overview

[BrianShaw]

That would be really nice for portraits, especially.

[David Schaller]

Taking a look at B&H selection, this is what I seem to come up with.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/755263-REG/Ilford_1168419_Multigrade_FB_Warmtone_Fiber.html/overview

That’s a great paper, and as others have said, you can vary the toning with selenium with different dilutions. I use dilute selenium (1:9) for archival purposes, and a little more dmax, and use that paper for the warm tone. If you have have images that you want neutral or cooler, then the regular Ilford FB paper is excellent, and less expensive. This one:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1017774-REG/ilford_1171983_mgfb1k_classc_8_x10_100.html

[paulbarden]

I'm just wanting to make silver gelatin prints on something more archival than RC paper. I do prefer a warm tone, maybe even almost sepia. The negative will be 8x10 FP4+, contact printed. I'm not getting into coating papers (such as Van Dyke) just yet.

You quoted Hahnemuhle Platinum paper. That's not a silver gelatin printing out paper.
If you want a warmtone silver gelatin print, the Ilford fiber paper is good. But the Fomatone Classic is even better. But gold toning silver gelatin prints cools them, it does not warm them. Tone a silver gelatin print with Gold chloride and you will get cold black/blue tones.

[bob carnie]

I will use gold toner when multi toning prints, I have found the bleach sepia then gold will give lovely warm highligts and upper midtone then I will selenium for the shadows followed by a blue tone.
Gold toner is so expensive it needs to be carefully used not to waste $$$$

[Michael R]

You quoted Hahnemuhle Platinum paper. That's not a silver gelatin printing out paper.
If you want a warmtone silver gelatin print, the Ilford fiber paper is good. But the Fomatone Classic is even better. But gold toning silver gelatin prints cools them, it does not warm them. Tone a silver gelatin print with Gold chloride and you will get cold black/blue tones.

I think this is correct - ie gold toning on its own will tend to give blue-black tones, and often the blue-black shift will be more pronounced on a warm tone paper than a cold or neutral tone paper. The same applies generally to tone shifts by direct development.

Overall I would agree given the goals outlined by OP gold toning doesn’t seem like the right direction.

[Joel Kitchens]

One of my favorite combinations is Ilford's Multi-Grade Fiber Base paper in Warm Tone (that the OP put in a link to B&H), that is then dropped into a bath of Kodak Selenium toner (1:9 dilution) until it stops changing color. It renders a delicious coffee or chocolate brown tone to the image. I only mention the Kodak selenium as my personal preference. Ilford's selenium toner works just as well, but I think it has a heavier ammonia odor.

Cheers!
Joel

[Sal Santamaura]

Taking a look at B&H selection, this is what I seem to come up with.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/755263-REG/Ilford_1168419_Multigrade_FB_Warmtone_Fiber.html/overview


That would be really nice for portraits, especially.

Having never tried that semi-matt version before, I recently bought a box and made some prints on it. It's a really ugly surface, with none of the advantages of, say, Bergger's semi-glossy finish and none of the elegance of Ilford's matt paper. The best I can characterize the Warmtone FB Semi-matt is "glary." In my experience, Multigrade Warmtone FB Matt would be a better choice.

[Drew Wiley]

My own gold toning protocol is quite economical. Most published formulas waste gold like crazy. But I certainly wouldn't use any of it on any kind of RC paper.

I've gotten wonderful results with all three surfaces of FB MGWT, although I mainly use just the glossy version.

[BrianShaw]

One of my favorite combinations is Ilford's Multi-Grade Fiber Base paper in Warm Tone (that the OP put in a link to B&H), that is then dropped into a bath of Kodak Selenium toner (1:9 dilution) until it stops changing color. It renders a delicious coffee or chocolate brown tone to the image. I only mention the Kodak selenium as my personal preference. Ilford's selenium toner works just as well, but I think it has a heavier ammonia odor.

Cheers!
Joel

That sounds lucious!

[esearing]

I like Nelsons gold toner except that it is used at a high temperature and takes a while so you cant use a temperature drift approach. But it imparts a lovely brown color shift. Expensive and can be almost replicated by a thiourea toner that has a high mix of SH to T (like 70/30)

[xkaes]

I like Nelsons gold toner ... it imparts a lovely brown color shift.

Thanks for mentioning this. Gold toners appear to have a certain reputation, but not all are cold or bluiish -- as I pointed out in Post #3.

[Drew Wiley]

I like the cooling gold toner gives. I can offset or split tone that in relation to selenium toner or sulfide brown toner. I rarely use selenium anymore.

[xkaes]

I rarely use selenium anymore.

Not even for blackening the blacks? If it weren't for that, I'd just use Sistan.

[esearing]

Thanks for mentioning this. Gold toners appear to have a certain reputation, but not all are cold or bluiish -- as I pointed out in Post #3.

Wolfgang Moersh has been posting some interesting works with gold toning of Kalitypes and some other alt processes on FB - He gets all kinds of color out of it.

[xkaes]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/wolfgang_moersch/

[Drew Wiley]

xkaes - the gold toner itself distinctly deepens the blacks, or enhances the DMax. There is no need to selenium too, unless you want its sepia effect. Sometimes I do use them in combination; but the depth of black can be entirely manipulated using gold chloride alone.

[Ulophot]

Drew, I'd be interested to know a bit about how you achieve economy with the gold toner. I tried a bit many years ago but did not get the effect I was looking for and that was that. I don;t know if your economy would fit mine, but the stuff is clearly out of my range at present.

I ask with the following in mind: Ilford WT is my standard paper, and I use a dilute selenium to tone it to varying, usually moderate degrees. As similar users know, most VC papers split-tone, Ilford WT being no exception, and I am not a fan in my own work. I can users a stronger concentration to go towards chocolate and get the higher values to tone more, but that's not always my choice. I don't embrace using a sulfide toner, due to my set-up. Gold, possibly along with selenium, if seems, might offer another avenue.

[esearing]

Selenium also responds to MGFB WT prints that have been bleached slightly with or without being redeveloped and dark tones become a bit warmer. To get colder tones I use the Bergger glossy papers with Ansco 130 (PF 130) at full strength or 1 to 1.5. Have not tried Moersch' Blue formula but its on my list of to-dos.

[Ulophot]

esearing, my current process is to second-fix prints and then move them directly to the selenium, per Doremus's procedure.

1. What is the effect on the higher tones from slight bleaching, i.e., do they tone more relative to the low values?
2. If I were to try this, what sort of dilution and time might I use for the bleach (I assume, potassium ferricyanide), or what degree of bleaching?
3. Any hints on bleach capacity vis number of 8x10s
4. Do I need any potassium bromide in the bleach?
5. In sepia toning I did years ago, the print had to be somewhat darker prior to (full) bleach to hold high values in the toned print. Is this the case here also?

Thanks.