Age fog

[robotgoldfish]

I was watching some b+w reversal videos and started to wonder if reversal bleach before developer will remove the fog from long outdated film?

Unfortunately I used up the last of my really old stuff and cant test this myself. So if anyone has tried this or is willing to try this let me know how it goes.

R.G.

[Mark Sampson]

I suspect that the bleach would remove the latent image along with the fog. That's just a wild-a** guess though.

[revdoc]

Reversal bleach removes silver metal, and won't do anything if used before development, when only silver halides are present.

[Willie]

Some of us have "Age Fog" and it has nothing to do with our photography. ;-)

[jnantz]

R.G.
I've never done it, but you might use some benzo to eat through your fog, unless you use the fog to your advantage when you expose and make your prints ( which I do all the time ) ....

[John Layton]

...pop some benzo's to eat through my age fog? Or...I can use age fog to my advantage? - how does that work:confused:

Oh...now I see...and yes I do agree because I have some ancient (1988 expiry) 11x14 Tri-X - which has over the years experienced multiple moves in storage conditions including some very hot attics...which I'm now pressing back into service with a bottle of (get this!), circa. 1978 (!) HC-110 (gifted to me by a generous forum member) black as tar....and it works! (and yes...still some nice fog - of which I can certainly take advantage!)

(...and John, there is a bit of irony in your recent PM suggesting I try a little caffenol to cut through my age fog!)

[jnantz]

...pop some benzo's to eat through my age fog? Or...I can use age fog to my advantage? - how does that work:confused:

Oh...now I see...and yes I do agree because I have some ancient (1988 expiry) 11x14 Tri-X - which has over the years experienced multiple moves in storage conditions including some very hot attics...which I'm now pressing back into service with a bottle of (get this!), circa. 1978 (!) HC-110 (gifted to me by a generous forum member)....and it works!

(...and John, I have to laugh at the irony of a PM you'd recently sent regarding the use of caffenol to cut through age fog!)

That’s cause caffenol use makes a nice sheen of fog on its own sometimes you don’t realize your film was foggy lol .. cuts the fog like it’s the hair of the dog .. or a punchin the nose and you forgot you stubbed your toe.. I’d have suggested RG use caffenol and d72/ansco130. But I figured he wasn’t a true believer.. and might think I was messing with him ( as people tend to think if I suggest coffee strong print developer). :)

[robotgoldfish]

The original thought was to remove the metallic silver that "printed out " due to conditions. But that would include the latent image.
But you could probably clean off the fog before exposer. Not worth the effort unless the film is irreplaceable.

[Tin Can]

I also have Brain Fog

so what?

we all gotta go

I don't drive for the safety of others

I have a private driver on call

I stay home

Last walkabout was to get a 6th shot

[Mark Sampson]

My recent experience with very old film turned out quite well. I found that there was about a three-stop loss in speed in Tri-X that is 50 years old. That was with normal development. It made for long exposures when printing, not a big issue. Your results will be different- how could they not be? But might provide a starting point.

[Doremus Scudder]

Bleach WILL affect the latent image. Check out SLIMT techniques, where a rehalogenating ferricyanide/bromide bleach is used to bleach the latent image contrastwise (works on film or paper). I've used it quite a bit for film to control contrast.

It likely won't help much with age fog, as the bleach works fastest/strongest in the areas of most exposure and almost not at all in the potential low-density areas.

A bit of BTA in the developer might help, but better is likely just to overexpose enough to get your shadows up out of the fog and then print through it later. This means rating your film slower. A test or two should tell the tale.

Best,

Doremus

[Tin Can]

NOS Plates and Film and paper

are to be carefully used and shown

regardless of format

Please never throw out aged

emusions

I have been given a lot of it

regardless of flaw

[jnantz]

The original thought was to remove the metallic silver that "printed out " due to conditions. But that would include the latent image.
But you could probably clean off the fog before exposer. Not worth the effort unless the film is irreplaceable.

why not do a test and see if it works ? its just film and you never know, sometimes the internet is wrong it might have a different technique to bring it to the wrong concluding :)

if you decide bleach isn't your thing try a developer that allows you to shorten the developing time and add a boost to contrast.
PPF ( print plate film / Universal ) Developers do that. 2 of the ones I regularly use are Ansco 130 and D72
( Dektol these days is ... brown so I wouldn't recommend that ).
The Ansco130 has Glyicin in it and the D72 doesn't so depending on where you are it might be difficult to locate Glycin,
otherwise they are similar. Both you dilute for the time you are going to develop so 1:5 for 5 mins 1:10 for 10 minutes. &c,
glycin likes it warm so develop everything at 72F, D72 normal 68, agitate like you would normal development,
unlike what the internet might tell you there are no golf ball sized grain, it's sweet ...
I typically do the 5 minute run if it's aged (all my film is expired ) or of unknown origin, found in a 70-100 year old box camera &c.
I found a makes 5 gallon RedCan of GAF Universal propping up a window where I used to live, and it converted me, if you ever find THAT, you won't be sorry.
I've never been able to find it since. Some suggest it's VIVADOL I've never used it so I don't know ...
... As Alan mentioned I am also a wicked fan of using Caffenol with either or those print developers mixed in.
I usually mix the caffenol the tablespoon method and add about 15-20cc of stock undiluted print developer/L in there...unlike what the internet might say, exact measurements aren't critical ..
doesn't matter the ISO brand, exposure color/E6/BW either .. whatever. :), it usually looks great at about 10 minutes but that's me, your time for what you do will probably be different.
the stain from the coffee and print developer eat through /mask the fog and create a sheen of it's own
(some say caffenol is pyro's kissin' cousin ) with a boost of contrast from the PPF. they tend to print and scan like a dream ...
if you hunt for the caffenol cookbook you will see recipes and examples of the film and prints made with it
I was one of the authors ( the one who didn't use a scale ) and have been using it since around 2006,
within the past few days I just developed paper negatives with it ( some are posted in the paper negative image sharing pages ) ..

( if you do a search on Flickr and probably instagram there are examples of film others have made using their own variety of caffenol ),

sorry to sound like a used car salesman but feel free to PM me if you want some Sumatra whole bean robusta coffee; I dont' use instant anymore but roast my own and I seem to have a lifetime supply ...
to use any bean coffee instead of instant, you brew a strong pot and add a little extra to the pot like you normally would ( or maybe that's just me? ),
don't clear it with eggshells like church coffee ( I haven't tried that, maybe you do? who knows the albumen &c might do good things :) )
... I usually make 10 cups at a time every 6 months and I add vit c until it foams. I've been replenishing the same gallon+ batch for 2 years, still going strong...
maybe your local robusta or arabica bean works as well too, not sure, might as well try it .. if you are in France look for an instant called "OLD GRINGO" it was at leclerk and it was cheep and fantastic,
no washing soda, either use baking soda as is ( sorry I don't have the conversion factor one of the caffenol bloggers probably does ) or
better yet, dry it out in your oven to convert it, vit c, the internet can help you cheaply... I get mine at Whole Foods or Trader Joes, it can't have other crap in it, like pectin it has to be only vit c..
some caffenol users don't even bother with the soda or vit c and just use coffee and nothing else, seems to work well for them ...

good luck!
John

<...> added later <...> I just remembered the caffenol cookbook website I think might be down
here's a link to the cookbook >>>>. https://www.nanianphoto.com/blog/caffenol-cookbook/

[Tin Can]

your wall of words are impenetrable

thank you



why not do a test and see if it works ? its just film and you never know, sometimes the internet is wrong because it might have a different technique :)

if you decide bleach isn't your thing try a developer that allows you to shorten the developing time and add a boost to contrast. PPF ( print plate film / Universal ) Developers do that. 2 of the ones I regularly use are Ansco 130 and D72 ( Dektol these days is ... brown so I wouldn't recommend that ). The Ansco130 has Glyicin in it and the D72 doesn't so depending on where you are it might be difficult to locate Glycin, otherwise they are similar. Both you dilute for the time you are going to develop so 1:5 for 5 mins 1:10 for 10 minutes. &c, glycin likes it warm so develop everything at 72F, D72 normal 68, agitate like you would normal development, unlike what the internet might tell you, there are no golf ball sized grain, it's sweet ... I typically do the 5 minute run if it's aged (all my film is expired ) or of unknown origin. I found a Red Can of GAF Universal propping up a window where I used to live, and it converted me, if you ever find THAT, you won't be sorry. I've never been able to find it since. Some suggest it's VIVADOL I've never used it so I don't know ... As Alan mentioned I am also a wicked fan of using Caffenol with either or those print developers mixed in. I usually mix the caffenol the tablespoon method and add about 15-20cc of stock undiluted print developer/L in there... doesn't matter the ISO brand, exposure color/E6/BW whatever, it usually looks great at about 10 minutes but that's me, your time for what you do will probably be different. the stain from the coffee and print developer eat through /mask the fog and create a sheen of it's own (some say caffenol is pyro's kissin' cousin) with a boost of contrast. they tend to print and scan like a dream ... if you hunt for the caffenol cookbook you will see recipes and examples of the film and prints I make with it ( and examples of film others have made using their own variety of caffneol ), I was one of the authors ( the one who didn't use a scale ) and have been using it since around 2006, I just developed paper negatives with it the other day ( some are posted in the paper negative image sharing pages ) ..

feel free to PM me if you want some Sumatra whole bean coffee I dont' use instant anymore but roast my own and I seem to have a lifetime supply ...
to use the Sumatra or any bean coffee instead of instant, you brew a strong pot and add a little extra to the pot like you normally would ( or maybe that's just me? ), don't clear it with eggshells like church coffee ( I haven't tried that, maybe you do? the albumen might do good things :) ) ... I usually make 10 cups at a time and I add vit c until it foams. I've been replenishing the same batch for 2 years, still going strong, maybe your local robusta or arabica bean works as well too, not sure .. if you are in France look for "OLD GRINGO" instant it was at the leclerk I think and it was fantastic, no washing soda, either use baking soda as is ( sorry I don't have the conversion factor but you add extra ) or dry it out in your oven to convert it, vit c, the internet can help you cheaply...

good luck!
John

[Per Madsen]

Well, a fog horn will help.

[Drew Wiley]

There is more than one kind of age fog. I experience it every day, especially if I'm stuck indoors due to too much fog. But sunnier days are finally starting to arrive.